The worst location in fallout 2?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Naitor295, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. Naitor295

    Naitor295 WURM FÜD

    17
    Jan 2, 2021
    In my opnion it's san francisco, due to the abysmal ammount of houses with no npcs or items, the whole arena fight that is the buggiest quest in the entire game, the cringy-worth setting that doesn't fit fallout specially with that crazy shit of their emperor being a super computer and the japanese/chinese kung fu stereotype, not a single memorable or likeable character, oh by the way in the restoration project one of the dock workers got fucking castrated by one of the gangs, that was enough to turn majority of the population into swiss cheese.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
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  2. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    969
    Dec 6, 2016
    Abbey is super boring.

    for official location, Gecko or Redding I guess. I don't find these places very interesting.

    Favorite is NCR, Vault City and Reno.
     
  3. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Still Mildly Glowing

    273
    May 12, 2020
    I actually liked how the Emperor was a supercomputer but yeah, for the most part San Francisco sucks.

    I find Klamath to be a pretty boring town with nothing interesting going on.

    Gecko and Redding have interesting aspects but for the most part they are a bit boring as well.
     
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  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    I think it's probably Klamath. I don't dislike it but in terms of juxtaposing your characters origin point, Shady Sands and Junktown were far more effective. As is The Den.

    I like the sleepy gecko trapping village where the people there aren't tribal but still very low tech and primitive, it's nice to see an average town, but yeah it's pretty understimulating.
     
  5. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
  6. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
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  7. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    San Fransisco. Definitely.

    San Fransisco feels kinda bizzare in context: it's completely unconnected to anywhere else in the game. There's just a bunch of super-high tech Shi working on genetic engineering without any real statement of how they're able to do all this, and then there's the Hubologists who are basically just "Scientologists but in Fallout" which isn't a bad premise, until you realise there's not really that much more to them.

    They're repairing an entire spacecraft ffs, and have access to high-end energy weapons, power armour, and yet somehow this is never really explained in the game. They're just a bunch of werird cultists who somehow have access to the utter height of pre-war technology. The only explanation given is "They have an eccentric scientist helping them out" which is kinda dumb. These guys are supposed to have the capabilities to repair a shuttle, which with the help of the Chosen One works. Granted they die regardless, but how the fuck do a bunch of Wasteland nobodies have access to an actual working space program?

    Take the Salvatores as a contrast: they have high-access energy weapons because they're explicitly trading with the Enclave. Getting access to high-tech anywhere else in the game is a matter of having availability, yet these weird nobodies have access to it for no logical reason.

    I also don't think it's adequately explained why the Shi, who are extreme isolationists, let a bunch of outsiders have access to some serious pre-war stuff. Like, ok I can somewhat see the Vagrants moving in to the Tanker and the Shi figuring "Hey it's just a ruin, who cares", but the Hubologists have access to what's most likely a pre-war bunker. Why?, Why would the Shi just let them move in there?

    The premise isn't bad: the Tanker Vagrants, The Hubologists and the Shi forming the power structure of San Fran, but it feels like in execution it's done really poorly, because it's clearly rushed for time.
    I'm biased in favour of Fallout 2 here, but I think these towns are great. IMO, towns don't need to have some unique far-flug premise, they can still tie in to the world in an interesting way.

    Gecko might seem underwhelming, but honestly it's one of those towns that doesn't just exist as an isolated thing, but rather in direct contrast to Vault City. Vault City hates mutats and sees Gecko as an abomination, however nonetheless they are inherently reliant on one another: Gecko's polluting the Groundwater because they don't have the correct parts to get the Power Plant in working condition, whereas Vault City DOES have those parts, so unless they co-operate they can't deal with the crisis.

    Moreover, Gecko hopes to optimise it's power plant so it can gain a position of power in the Wasteland selling power, whereas Vault City is unable to expand because it's Vault generator isn't enough to sustain it in the long term. Part of the fun in Gecko comes from it's connections to Vault City and how it's necessary for the two towns to co-operate in the future.

    As for Redding, it's position as a Gold Mining town makes it extremely valuable in a wasteland where Gold is used to create NCR Dollars. The entire premise of the mine with access to extremely rare technology being taken over by Wannamingos, and none of the mines being able to take over is immediately interesting. Not to mention this is where the morality of the Jet crisis comes in: do you cure people of their addiction and let them get taken over by Vault City whereby the majority will never be full citizens? It reminds you of the significance of Vault City's medical technology.

    Klamath is interesting not only because of it's unique array of characters that immediately get you accustomed to the types of people you might meet in the Wasteland. The town drunk immediately trying to scam you by pretending to be a greeter, the families feuding for control, the Irish Boxer who immediately takes the piss out of you, before realising you need help to survive in the wasteland.

    But also because it starts to introduce the overarching economic system of the game: you have Indentured Servitude which immediately sets up the premise of slavery, you have the immediate suspicion of tribals, you have the Distillery in the Wilderness which is explicitly mentioned to be tied to the Wright families' monopoly on Alcohol over in New Reno.

    One thing I do find kinda arbritrary is the fact that the people in Klamath know of the existence of both The Den and Redding, but only point you towards the Den. Shady Sands only really traded with Junktown and heard about The Hub in passing. It's never really explained why you can't go from Klamath to Redding, other than Redding being too high-level.

    These towns might not be the most unique ones in the world, but they're ultimately tied to the greater conflicts in the wasteland which I think makes them interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
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  8. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Or so they believe; IIRC...
    ...they die in a one of three different shuttle accidents. ;)

    *Still... the notion that they could get it to fly, and yet crash for the stated reasons seems a bit of a stretch to me.
     
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  9. ocelot

    ocelot It Wandered In From the Wastes

    121
    Sep 17, 2003
    Another vote for San Fransisco here. While not a catastrophic failure, it was clearly rushed.

    I also do not share the dislike some have voiced for Klamath. I think the devs did a magnificent job with it (down to the choice of recycled FO1 track, which is a perfect match). IMHO Klamath is an even better first town than Shady Sands, and that's saying something. It's got more dimensions to it, more NPCs of relevance, more foreshadowing, more quests etc. I also think the Toxic Caves are a homerun, far better than the radscorpion caves of Shady Sands.
     
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  10. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    As I recall—from reading 3rd hand accounts, the areas in Fallout 2 were given out to individual developers, and all cobbled together near the end of the project; not interlinked like the maps in Fallout. Miracle that they all came together as well as they did.

    This was (for instance) why the merchant interactions were inconsistent; some having interactive tables in their shop with additional inventory, while others the tables were decorative.

    I don't know who did the San Francisco map.
     
  11. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    436
    Jun 25, 2019
    Someone should make a mod to interconnect the settlements better. Any ideas on how to do that?
     
  12. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Still Mildly Glowing

    273
    May 12, 2020
    The settlements are pretty interconnected in fallout 2 already, more so than fallout 1. The only way I could think of to connect them more would be to add more quests that deal with the relationships between towns, like the Vault City-Gecko quest or the Vault City-NCR-New Reno-Redding quests. If you want them to be more connected thematically, then that would probably require changing a lot about San Francisco and New Reno, but other than that the settlements in the game fit together surprisingly well considering the way they were developed.
     
  13. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    436
    Jun 25, 2019
    One idea I had was having the Enclave and Hubologists being connected (the Hubologist providing intel about the Shi’a movements, slaves from neighboring regions, and spies) in exchange for tech. That would be a justification for them having G11E’s and spaceships at least.
     
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  14. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    San Fran because there are so many dressers with nothing in them and the Scientologist ripoffs are so corny and 90's it broke the entire franchise tone wise. It felt like they said "We like Big Trouble in Little China" and shat out a location with generic kung fu Chinese stereotypes. So when people talk fondly of the lore and writing in the series I kinda just laugh and think to myself how stupid I though the shit was when I was 12 years old.
     
  15. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    TBH, I feel like I was less bothered by the 90s tone than everyone else, mostly because I don't remember much of the 90s, so it all just seemed a little surreal to me. Like, I did't actually know that Daniel Bird was a reference to Dan Quayle until a couple years after finishing Fallout 2.

    Though I will say that a lot of it has aged poorly. The Chinese stereotypes being a good example of this: writing an entire city where China was helpful in rebuilding after the apocalypse, kinda subverts expectations and shows that the Great War wasn't necessarily about good people or bad people, but an arbritrary resource conflict that's meaningless in the new world, but the way they handle it by making San Fran all about Kung Fu and an Imperial Palace with an Emperor in kinda feels like it's just "Haha, 90s caricatures" as opposed to a substantive way to write that.

    Similarly to how Sulik is an outdated stereotype: talking in a vaguely carribean accent in broken english, covered in tribal tatoos and with a bone straight up going through his nose.

    It strikes me as kinda lazy really. Relying on 90s racial and cultural stereotypes to communicate culture rather than doing an actual in-depth look at how cultures would develop in the post-apocalypse.
    I think this is a little harsh: Fallout 2, with the exception of end-game content, has a lot going for it.

    It has a really intricate economic look in to the Wasteland, with the resources the various groups of survivors need being a core part of how the gameworld functions. Maybe the writing can be dumb, but I respect it for at least giving me an intricate look at how material needs manifest in the wasteland, with detail and intricacy the likes of which I've seen in few other games.
     
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  16. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    It has things going for it. It just shouldn't be taken so fucking seriously because I tell ya a lot of the terminals in Fallout 2 are worse than Fallout 3 and that is bad.
     
  17. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Meh, honestly I don't think anyone would be too pissed if Bethesda retconned some dumb shit like the Talking Sporeplant.

    Most of the concern about Fallout Lore comes from stuff like Jet, which is a major plot-point, and effectively defines the entire Vault City vs New Reno conflict.
     
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  18. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    No not even the lore. The basic writing in the terminals was juvenile and taking a swing at 90's politics. It was gay.

    Like a lot of shit like ripping off the name of Bill Clinton or something like that. It was pretty halfass and I can't remember and don't care to look, but it struck me as amateur.

    I can't find it but I didn't look hard. Add in shit like SKYNET and the whole game felt like the 4th wall did not exist.

    But yeah San Fran is the one I don't like even though it is still better than most games today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
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  19. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I'm also for Frisco. Every other location has something worthwhile going, but Frisco always feels like a real drag to me. I don't even do the quests there anymore except the Navarro related stuff and what needs to be done for the main quest.

    Next in line for me is the NCR. Except for the V15 stuff I honestly don't remember a single quest.

    Besides this I'm always pretty much ignoring all the wacky shit like that stuff in Broken Hills. Luckily you can easily ignore it and aren't depending on the EXP.
     
  20. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013

    NCR is an interesting one because what it represents and the worldbuilding it provides are good, but you're right that in terms of actual questing it's quite poor considering its the capital of a nation.
     
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