To me, Honest Hearts really wasn't that good...

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Surf Solar, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    Yeah, that's why I thought it would be nice if you show up at New Canaan while it's still functioning, then witness them destroy the whole place. It would really give you a reason to dislike the White Legs other than because they shoot at you and because the game tells you to. Also meeting everyone in the Mojave who said they were traveling to New Canaan there would have been cool, and it would make more sense than still having them in the Mojave saying they're going to New Canaan even though your character already knows it's destroyed.
     
  2. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    i like the idea of that. You arrive, start doing your courier thing, getting quests, minor quests, story quests, etc, then next thing you know fucking murderous violence, all your little sidequests fail along side some major ones, sad faces all around, you and some survivors get to join up with graham, get some new quests, etc.
     
  3. brfritos

    brfritos Humma Kavulaaaaaaa

    638
    Sep 8, 2009
    HH isn't a bad DLC, but it's a letdown of some sorts, I agree with Surf Solar.

    But most of all, my impression is the DLC was rushed. Yes, rushed. The way Joshua is introduced, the way Daniel tell you New Cannan's story it seems the DLC could be a huge one in the length of OWB and Dead Money.

    Lonesome Road was delayed and the speculation is because it will conflict with some huge titles being lauched on the same day, but honestly?
    I don't believe the DLC is even finished, for me Obsidian still are polishing and debugging some things.

    It's insteresting that HH begins in a slow pace and sundenlly the setting becomes faster, really faster, like "let's go, it's time to finish".
     
  4. TheDidact

    TheDidact First time out of the vault

    59
    Aug 4, 2011
    I get what you're all saying. Still, it just seems to me HH isn't something to rush. Maybe it isn't the most interesting and I'll admit some aspects feel rushed. But you know, I see what the New Canaanites saw in Zion and it's grand.
     
  5. Old Man Vee

    Old Man Vee First time out of the vault

    52
    Jul 30, 2011
    I would have liked the option to side with the White Legs if I were already sided with the Legion... moreso still if I were in Legion armor.

    It seems that each DLC is getting a tad less linear.

    Though honestly. Honest Hearts adds more with the new perks than it did any bit of story...
    If you're not playing an altruistic character, then you're kinda in the wrong place should you go to Zion Valley.
     
  6. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    The DLC isn't set up for it, but you could just go and murderise the 'good guys'.
     
  7. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    207
    Sep 26, 2008
    I concur with the OP -- I absolutely abhor this title. The characters were flat, the missions were atrociously designed (both in structure and information given) and the world was needlessly tiring to get around (want to get up on a cliff? ok, but do you walk left or right for 3 minutes to do that? Oopsie, chose the wrong way? Alrighty, now you just have a six minute walk in the opposite direction).

    By the time I got to the Ritual quest I was all but done with this piece of trash.

    1. They smear Vaseline on the screen and then tell you to go find a location whose path is poorly indicated on the map.

    2. After getting up there you have to fight a mini-boss and you're artificially limited in your approach (i.e. sorry stealth characters, you're SOL on this one!).



    question: Before playing I stumbled across a NMA news article where a developer was talking about the design choices for this title (much like Chris Avellone did for Dead Money on his blog). Can somebody provide me a link to this? I can't find it in the archives or .. well.. anywhere.
     
  8. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    So you made a stealth character totally unable to fight? Well, shit happens. Post apocalypse isn't a kindergarden.

    Didn't found the ritual stuff hard at all. Not hard to find, not hard to fight. In worst case, you open up your pipboy map and check out the location, instead of blindly running into questarrow direction.
     
  9. :::SILUS:::

    :::SILUS::: Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    313
    Aug 18, 2011
    You just leave the Sorrows camp, turn left, go straight and turn left again.
     
  10. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009

    The maingame is beatable by many character builds - one of them being a sneaky diplomat never needing to fight anything.

    It wasn't hard, only annoying, "thanks" to the wonky placment of cliffs the other poster already mentionend, and this blurry shit filter smeared on the screen. I didn't even bother with this quest in my second run through of the DLC.
     
  11. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    It's also a fucking sidequest, no? As in, optional. The game doesn't have to gear every quest to be beaten by as many playstyles as possible, just the main game. That's like getting pissed that there isn't a peaceful solution to collect in on bounties.
     
  12. :::SILUS:::

    :::SILUS::: Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    313
    Aug 18, 2011
    Exactly what Wintermind said. Also, it takes about 2 minutes of running and 2 changes of the direction to get to the freakin bear. Left-straight-left->bear
     
  13. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    207
    Sep 26, 2008
    Actually, no.

    #1. Though it is a side quest, when to accept it you're TRAPPED in it. -1 for design there.

    #2. Why are you trapped? Because your vision is blurred like they smeared Valvoline across the bloody screen until completion. The upshot is that you can't merely walk away and do something more exciting or even abandon the bloody thing without reloading a past save.

    #3. They give you NO indication that you'll be stuck in this fashion when accepting the quest. It is BAD design to force the player to reload a previous save merely to abandon a quest (and, further, to not give any indication you'll be in a state which inhibits gameplay and/or fun). .

    #4. The height of the quest is my biggest complaint. The battle is done in an entirely artificially manner (a magick ring of fire emerges that blocks you in like a wall). However, It's not even the forced combat I have a problem with (or the fact the creature isn't persistent and teleports into the zone after you've walked into it), it's the fact it forces you into a very narrow set of strategic parameters that I find abhorrent. The fight would have been difficult enough without the artificial cage-match twist -- a twist that doesn't make sense in either presentation or precedent.

    Oh, and for the record, my character is level 35 and over 80% in most skills (90%+ in every skill I desire) and I have the holorifle from Dead Money (a faaaaar superior DLC).

    #5. The "theme" of the mission is that you're on a vision quest of sorts. It's even directly stated that you will uncover deeper understanding of yourself and/or your future.. However, upon completion, you get some paltry rewards and an XP increase... that's it. They could have at least stolen the schtick of that fortune telling kid from Outpost 188 in the main-game. Instead, we get little to nothing in the way of flavor to round out the experience (or, well, disguise the obvious fetch quest nature of it).

    Come on, how the hell can you defend such blatantly bad design?

    I did. See below..

    To the person who gave me directions.. I suggest you look at the map again and see if it's so obvious without the metaknowledge. I actually had to look the path up because I wasn't about to search around the base of a huge plateau with crap smeared all over my screen. Further, even when I found the ledge, the game routinely glitches in allowing you to get over the last little hump (you have to push and jump several times till the avatar walks up the final stretch of the hill). I actually tried this before looking it up and assumed it was yet another invisible wall like in the maingame and kept searching.

    Bad, bad design.. even if you had fun with it (masochist, I presume), you have to admit the design choices weren't stellar in the least.

    All this said, I don't want to be spoon fed. However, it makes sense that I could have asked this tribe where I was supposed to be going... and if the path was accessible through only one hard to manage/find approach, then they should have at least pulled a Morrowind and given me landmark based directions (I miss this in RPGs). It's not like the character's wouldn't know, given the setup of the story.

    A further complaint which illustrates Obsidian's half assed approach to this DLC involves the final missions: Once you accept it you actually unlock several missions but only the mandatory one is enabled in your quest book. *NO* exposition is given about the other missions and the only way to uncover them is to open your quest log and see that they magically appeared. I was actually a bit disoriented when the game teleported me and my final companion to an arbitrary location on the map without giving me any frame of reference for what I was to be doing, aside from a quick commentary from that aforementioned companion. After guessing the quest marker was indeed where I was to venture, I fought my way across the map only to discover I missed the two other opportunities and then had to backtrack across vast distances.

    It just wasn't presented well, engaging or fun...

    Edit, I found an image.

    Sadly, I can't doctor it in paint or photoshop to show the path which seemed logical to me vs the path you actually have to take, but if you go north from the fishing lodge and go into the narrow passage to the left of the next location indicator (looks like a mountain resting on waves) you'll see where the Ghost Bear spawns. Per the map it looks like you can take many paths up to that region but, in actuality, most of that "grayer than the water" landmass is sheer cliff. You have to access it on the far left hand most portion of that area and it's a very narrow pinch.
     
  14. Iseeyourehandywithablade

    Iseeyourehandywithablade First time out of the vault

    13
    Dec 15, 2010
    Its great as a REALLY low level DLC. In my latest play through i went there at level 5. Came out at level 16 with a bouquet of fancy new guns.

    Story wise its pretty flimsy, quests are boring, survivalist is the only redeeming story element.

    So yeah, its just a nice boost for low level PCs IMO.
     
  15. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    The sheer cliffs are the darkest blue. This is no change from the rest of the map. The middle blue color doesn't do much help in the line of showing where cliffs are or anything like that, and for that all of the maps are terrible, but it's pretty clear where you have to go in.
     
  16. Dogmeat Sandwich

    Dogmeat Sandwich First time out of the vault

    14
    Aug 2, 2011
    Interesting...I've actually had the opposite problem of most people. My character is around level 10 (on second playthrough), unarmed 100%, melee 80%, all guns <20%.

    the She quest was cake, and a nice bonus to get a kick-ass unarmed weapon. i was confused by the destination but after looking at the map for about 30 seconds i figured it out.

    unfortunately, the fucking storm drummers are goddamn impossible to kill with guns. they spawn on top of cliffs and rain bullets on me, and with my shitty gun skillls im always at 0-5% to hit back. fucking brilliant. i have to max out chems to be able to charge them in groups- they're easy to kill up close, but the geography gives them a distinct advantage over unarmed characters.

    and i left my guns in new vegas cuz i thought tribals would enjoy hand-to-hand combat. nope.
     
  17. Dogmeat Sandwich

    Dogmeat Sandwich First time out of the vault

    14
    Aug 2, 2011
    There's a lot of the IRL environment that they misused. There's a small town right outside the park boundaries (but still in the canyon) that is actually about the size of Goodsprings and - no joke - has a burger place with bison in the back yard that serves bison burgers. Damn town screams fallout.

    There's also a big resort-style building in the heart of the park, below some massive canyon walls, a lot like the Jacobstown resort, actually.

    Finally, there's a good-sized town (100,000+) within an hour or so of the park.

    I think the region is diverse and interesting enough to support a large map with different settlements, and the wilderness adds a unique quality that the deserts lacks. Shame they didn't do more with it.

    p.s., IRL one of the most amazing areas on earth. definitely worth a visit
     
  18. vakapyro06

    vakapyro06 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    100
    Jul 21, 2011
    I liked it, it was fresh, difficult at higher levels (BEEEEESSS), and I loved Joshua.

    The only thing is, I cannot find any incentive to aid Daniel (for his ending), even for just the sake of having done everything in the dlc (it's the only thing I haven't done).
     
  19. Quadrophonic84

    Quadrophonic84 First time out of the vault

    2
    Sep 17, 2011
    Yeah of the 3 so far released HH is my least favorite.
     
  20. Azathoth

    Azathoth First time out of the vault

    52
    Sep 2, 2011
    I liked Point Lookout alot actually, but Honest Hearts ? Nah... It was too short, there was next to no side questing, i mean it was a pretty big open area, they could have added a few more quests... It had pontential.

    So in retrospect for me it was too short, few things to do, somehow i feel like it was rushed not in design but in lack of content....