Torment: Tides of Numenera Screenshot, FO3 DLC sale

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The latest update for Torment: Tides of Numenera, inXile's Kickstartered spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment, has the first screenshot of the game.

From the write-up following it:<blockquote>Torment will certainly present some special challenges, but more so I think, unique opportunities to realize our vision in a new old way. We’re looking back to a 2D approach, with a fresh eye rooted in contemporary modeling, texturing, and engineering techniques. Much like Project Eternity, our goal is to craft an experience that diverges from the common path of world building. We hope to strike a distinct style while achieving levels of detail often difficult to present in 3D game space with a small team, through a process of pre-rendering major portions of in-game assets. As you have seen in the published concept pieces, geometry varies greatly from location to location. We look to incorporate the organic nature of many of those structures into our asset creation pipeline while avoiding the often processor taxing in-game meshes.

The big debate: playing games in 2D vs. 3D – I know many of you are interested about our decisions regarding the art direction. There has been much talk about the costs associated with "2D development," the quality and scope that can be produced by a small team, and the impact that this might have (for funding) of other departments. And trust you me, I understand from where these expectation emerge. But to be clear, what we are really talking about here is not a 2D game, but what you might call a 2.5D game, with just a portion of art production that is 2D in nature. Bear in mind, any extra time we spend noodling in 2D will be made up 10-fold when we get to our beta build and we are not ripping our eyes out trying to figure out how to get all that geometry to render efficiently on screen. Our early tests are showing very promising frame rates for our 2D assets, freeing up additional processing power for characters, FX, lighting, post-processes, etc.

After all, characters are not 2D, rather 3D seen through an isometric camera. And particles, well, they’ve actually always been 2D, but you know that. I’ll admit, lighting in 2.5D was a concern of mine early on, but after some initial experiments, I feel confident that 3D lighting can and will be used to considerable effect, grounding the characters in the scene through dynamic lighting and some shadow casting. These issues, among others, simply require a mind shift in the creation process, and it’s quite liberating.</blockquote>
And the screenshot:
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Also, Xbox 360 owners of Fallout 3 vanilla out there might want to take a look at this surprisingly genuine April Fools sale that includes all FO3 DLC for %75 off.
 
I am a 360 owner of Fallout 3, but the writing was so bad I stopped playing during the Megaton main quest. So I don't think even a sale price on Fallout 3 DLC is going to get me to play that game again.

Though it's hard to complain about the game to people when I haven't actually finished it. >_>

Meh.

EDIT: Also, I never turn on my 360 anymore. *shrug*
 
If you like Fallout 3 and can tolerate the combat Broken Steel is worth it. The writing sucks but the Enclave military base is pretty huge if I remember correctly, lots of sneaking, sniping, or all out battling if you want.
 
After all, characters are not 2D, rather 3D seen through an isometric camera. And particles, well, they’ve actually always been 2D, but you know that. I’ll admit, lighting in 2.5D was a concern of mine early on, but after some initial experiments, I feel confident that 3D lighting can and will be used to considerable effect, grounding the characters in the scene through dynamic lighting and some shadow casting. These issues, among others, simply require a mind shift in the creation process, and it’s quite liberating.
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Basically - the way TOEE did it in 2003. More or less, anyway. Admittedly, this does look good, but it's hardly anything groundbreaking.

The screenshot looks like they're keeping some of the original PS:T spirit, like that.
 
Nice to see from the Kickstarter comments that the old "all that matters is the story/atmosphere, not the mechanics/camera/look" people are coming out to play after revealing they're going with the 2.5D approach. ~_~ Amazes me how people think that FPS and polygons is the only "right" way to do a game and that anything else only came about due to a technical limitation.

Luckily, I don't think we have to worry about inXile caving to that sort of rubbish. The "screenshot" looks great. Damn Kickstarter -- now I have too many games to look forward to and not enough time for them all.
 
To be fair, inXile seem to be addressing the concern that 2.5D is more expensive than full 3D, which is cool. I hope that the textures in the final prerendered backgrounds are more detailed but otherwise it's looking great!
 
FearMonkey said:
I am a 360 owner of Fallout 3, but the writing was so bad I stopped playing during the Megaton main quest. So I don't think even a sale price on Fallout 3 DLC is going to get me to play that game again.

Though it's hard to complain about the game to people when I haven't actually finished it. >_>

Meh.
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I hear you. I didn't finish FO3 either. In fact, I dumped the game into the garbage bin after going past the halfway point. It was a huge disappointment, such an affront that I couldn't stand the game lingering any longer in my apartment. I was also dismayed at the plot right from the start. One thing that baffled me was the fate of Amata. If she's apparently important for the main character, why couldn't you tag her along as your first follower? That as a plot device would have made too much sense. She should be weaker than more combative NPC's but her strengths should be elsewhere and they would manifest mid-to-late game. All that would require quality writing and coherent vision, both of which Bethesda is severely lacking.

About the Numenera screenshot. It made me think of Tsen'Ang - the dark elf village from Arcanum. Everything they're touting about the game seems reasonable, so here's hoping they reach the MCA threshold!
 
Nice read, but apart that this is the first, I really don't see anything special about this picture. I'm almost disappointed how void of any details and how bland it is. I suppose this is "the bloom", but it's somehow too kaki for my taste.

I know that players were denied of good writing in the past decade or so, but for gods of games sake I hope they will not forget that graphics elements are also core element in todays games for the too many of us. It's easy to get used to the good thing. And graphics details and technology are those things.

However I like past games (i.e. PST, Arcanum, ToEE...), when I want to replay some of them, I'm noticing, in terms in graphics, how far technology has come. Other elements shouldn't be forgotten also.
 
Whenever I replay Fallout or Fallout 2 I NEVER think of the graphics. I really have absolutely no problem with any old game's graphics, but then again, maybe it's because I'm used to them, or because I'm too awesome 8)
 
Morbus said:
Whenever I replay Fallout or Fallout 2 I NEVER think of the graphics. I really have absolutely no problem with any old game's graphics, but then again, maybe it's because I'm used to them, or because I'm too awesome 8)
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Whenever I replay Fallout or Fallout 2 I always drool at their graphics - the low-fi is so damn rich and I have to say that after a recent long session of New Vegas, which I liked, Fallout 2 + Restoration Project is like a breath of fresh air aesthetically.

The duality of low-fi graphics and text descriptions adds a dimension that 3D can't match for shit :|
 
For me, music and ambient sounds are much more preferable over any kind of 3D/2.5D graphics.

And the pic looks pretty much Torment'y. That's nice.
 
tl,dr: don't forget other things while pouring all efforts into story and characters.

All I'm saying is it would be unwise to forget that time has passed and tech. has given us new tools and new possibilities. Been stubborn could be, sometimes, a good thing. But been shortsighted rarely, if ever, is.

That's the curse of a knowledge: knowing how some mechanic in game can be enhanced by today's tech. requires, in my case, more and more suspension of disbelief for the particular thing to achieve the same level of enjoyment ("novelty" taken into consideration).

To repeat, I like old games as they are (well, mostly...), but all this talk and focus on the STORY (and all those VERY important and vastly neglected elements in other games) have a potential to hide the fact that these are not 90's anymore. Maybe we haven't changed, which I doubt, but the Customer certainly is. And for a company it's critical to know who are its customers.

I have read that Fargo thinks he knows its customers but the fact that you don't need to report to (i.e.) EA or Zenimax doesn't negate commercial element in this business. I have doubts that he knows its customers that much, but that's another thing... I'm not sure that we exactly know what we want either...
 
Look, I am a quite old by gamer standards so I am aware of all the so called progress regarding game mechanics, and In my opinion nothing and I repeat nothing managed to achieve till now the beauty of Baldurs Gate. I still regard the temple of Amaunator the most beautiful piece of art ever made in a computer game.

All this progress which is 3D, and full voice-over managed to accomplish one thing only, and that is shrink games universe, destroy writing quality (because reading somehow came to be considered old school) and dramatically increasing production costs.

Just look at ME which I liked (the first two at least). The universe itself was a fraction of that of Baldurs Gate, Fallout New Vegas again, the world itself was a fraction of that of Fallout 2 (however in this case the guys at Obsidian still managed to provide a lot of content even with the crappy tools provided by Beth). So yeah I am hyped about the tech demo and I think that it is the right way to go and I couldn't care less about the so called progress of the last 20 years.

This perspective is the best way of providing tons of content and an artistically (not graphically) amazing game.

And from what Fargo said you kinda get a feeling that he does know the public hi is catering to. He is aware that he is servicing a nieche market with very specific needs, that is overlooked by big companies but can be a good market for those the size of Inexile and Obsidian so basically If you want state of the art games go play ME (and that is not an insult because as I mentioned before I happen to like the first two) or Dragonage (the first one)

Btw, did someone mention Septerra Core?. Yeah that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the screenshot. That was the only game ever that I played through even if I completely hated the combat mechanics (except the combined spells which were amazing). :)
 
dl,dr: just a clarification.

I know my knowledge of English is laughable and I rarely write, so it's reasonable that you don't understood what I meant by "Hey devs! Amidst all this talk how awesome and deep you write - don't forget technology"

I can agree with you on many things but, paradoxically, what you or I like is marginally important. We can adapt to a point - new players will have much harder time.

There is an obvious surge in type of RPGs games that I like. How they will turn out to be and how long will it last is unclear. But, I want that to continue. If this is a cycle in games (which I think it is) I want that cycle to continue as long as possible. In short, my conclusion (it's simple really) is: that can't be achieved if there is no new customer blood to sustain that trend. This wave will past, we will have couple of games that we like, but I don't want to wait another decade or so for a new surge.

That said, unlike 90's, we have several vectors that are pointed against deep rpg: console related issues, cultural trends and time management, etc, but every single one is antagonistic toward all those rpg elements that we hold important.

A lot of newer gamers don't know as you do, how deep/artistic RPGs could be. They don't have those experiences and they don't have the way to know that. They will not understand you or me. You can tell whatever you want about old games but younger players (vast majority of them), will NOT play them because they are, well, old. As simple as that. You can blame them for that but that will NOT resolve anything.

If devs are wise enough, they can incorporate new tech (whatever that mean in particular case and that's whole new discussion) without compromising good thing in the design. That's all.

If they can't achieve full 3D because of time or budget constrains then it's ok, I can live with it. But don't sell me story about how avangarde 2.5D approach is. I'm hyped but not stupid. Well, not that much stupid. For example (but not limited to), I liked camera and art in Silent Storm. And it was, I don't know, 2000ish, so more the a decade ago. What's the problem with that to be in Numenera?
 
Yeah I see the point that you are trying to make but still there are some flaws in your assumptions (at least from my point of view). Actually what I see taking shape is something that already exist in the world of written media. I mean there are tonns of crappy quality writings that cater to the so called masses and then there are, much less in numbers, those that actually cater to so called "intellectuals" and those who write them do manage to make an existence out of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the new generations because even among these there are people who do appreciate quality writing which usually means some appreciation of art also.
And even among the so called dumb ones there are those who were surprised by the quality of the infinity engine. I remember one comment regarding the Project Eternity screenshot that sounded something like this : Dude that is a concept art, there is no way that they could have that in the game itself.....I don't have to tell you the reply the pour soul got. :).

Also there is a crisis now in mainstream gaming as even some of the new generation gamers are starting to get enough of crappy unfinished games DRM-s and micro transactions. EA is kind of having a tough time now. How exactly is this going to play out in the long run is still hard to tell but still there are signs that something has to change wich could mean good news for us more intellectually minded gamers.
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMeQzXZYi7I[/youtube]

I think it has promise. I like how the character moves - pretty fluid
 
grayx said:
If they can't achieve full 3D because of time or budget constrains then it's ok, I can live with it. But don't sell me story about how avangarde 2.5D approach is. I'm hyped but not stupid. Well, not that much stupid. For example (but not limited to), I liked camera and art in Silent Storm. And it was, I don't know, 2000ish, so more the a decade ago. What's the problem with that to be in Numenera?
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Going fully 3d would actually save them some time and work: you model and texture a landscape, paste buildings and props over it and the visible part of a level is done. But the point of having pre-rendered backgrounds is that you can take hand-drawn art and paste it almost straight into a game level. This way, you can have very minute details (important for fantasy games) without actually having to model them in 3d.
 
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