Troika Games: Troikapedia

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by DarkUnderlord, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 6, 2003
    Terra-Arcanum the oldest, longest surviving, most-active Troika fan-site have launched the Troikapedia. It's a wiki designed to cover all things Troika. Staff, games, quests and what-not. We've made a rough start and there's a lot of content still to add but I hope that over time, it'll all happen.

    So go on over there and check it out and if you find a page is missing or needs some extra content added, just hit the edit button and add it in.


    Goes back to lurking
  2. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Hah. Shit, man, a wiki-hype is blowing through the land

    Normally we don't allow pluggin', but shit, I'll leave it 'coz we all love Troika here.
  3. st0lve

    st0lve Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 14, 2004
    They actually had another tech demo in the works, atleast thats what I've heard. A Source based PA themed game (I guess no pictures\media was ever released from it).
  4. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike First time out of the vault

    Apr 28, 2005
    Yes there was.
  5. Maphusio

    Maphusio Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Sep 25, 2004
    I really like their logo still. Both Troika and BI's logo unlock some very exciting feelings.
  6. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Oh, uhm, moved to General Gaming, though
  7. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Methinks this is terrible, terrible overkill for such a small compan as Troika Games with so few accomplishments to its name. While it's interesting in theory, a series of article would've been much better, and more interesting, in this case.
  8. Rev. Layle

    Rev. Layle A Smooth-Skin

    Jul 26, 2005
    why is it terrible? all a wiki is is a series articles with electronic encyclopedia-link linking (or even more loosely, a very flexible content management system). in fact, even if it is just a series of articles in the long run, it is probably still easier to maintain via wiki anyways
  9. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    It's only barely easier to maintain via wiki, but wiki costs a lot more time to set up than just HTML pages, and it takes a greater toll on the server.
    Furthermore, a wiki is very much dependent on the people who visit it. With few visitors who contribute, a wiki will be useless, since there will be no new contributions, barely any quality control and few people to look at it.
    Lastly, it also functions as an encyclopedia, inhibiting contributions such as interviews, feature articles, game universe speculation and such. And those are the things that are a lot more fun to read, and are a lot more interesting, when the subject matter is so very limited, as is the case with Troika.

    You won't quickly see interviews and such in a wiki, because it's a but clumsy, and doesn't fit in with the general idea of a wiki either.
  10. st0lve

    st0lve Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 14, 2004
    SOURCE BASED. As in HL2, not some new engne, same as Bloodlines. FPS I think it was.
    Haven't heard much about it, just a few words and nothing more.
  11. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    They were working on a new engine too. They had the PA demo on both the HL2 engine and their own (the one you saw was NOT SOURCE, it was their own), as well as a (Source) demo for a contemporary game
  12. st0lve

    st0lve Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Nov 14, 2004
    yeah, thats what I tried to say. that the demo that they showed a video of, was not the source one.
  13. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 6, 2003
    I'll dig this up because the Troikapedia isn't going too badly since its inception.

    Your ignorance of site management is unbecoming. Believe me when I tell you it's much preferable to place a server under load than it is to update HTML pages. The wiki puts no more strain on the server than these forums. Setting up HTML pages are also *incredibly* time-consuming when compared with a wiki, unless you're never adding content and never plan to do anything like change the template or something.

    True. Thankfully though, the Troikapedia has had some great contributions so far. There's still a lot left to add mind you but it's getting there.

    In your opinion interviews are more interesting to read. The Troikapedia wasn't established to hold interviews though. It was designed to be a factual knowledge base about Troika and eventually hold complete quest and "walkthrough" type information on all their games.

    Which is why wiki's aren't established when you want interviews. That's what the main site is for.
  14. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    May 27, 2004

    i've been trying to ignore it ever since it was posted, but with the constant upping it's pretty tough... each time i see it, it makes me think of things lost & what could've been...

    *cries in a corner holding his Troika games in his arms*
  15. Silencer

    Silencer Night Watchman Staff Member Admin

    Nov 7, 2003
    Actually, Troika is DEAD DEAD DEAD! Visit Troikapedia for all your Gray Legion needs! :P

    I kid, I kid. I think setting up a wiki is funky... *IF* you can manage to add content. But that's your problem.

    Hell, I might even let the guys at the Phoenix and Arcanum World know about this,in case they don't do yet.
  16. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Your ignorance of my knowledge is unbecoming.

    That depends entirely on the situation. In the case of wikipedia: yes. In the case of something as small as articles about Troika, then I'd say that the small added nuisance of updating HTML pages by hand is preferable to straining the server more with a wiki.

    I wasn't talking about forums, I was talking about comparing

    Not true. It's really easy to set up a template HTML file that only needs filling in some text to get a good-looking article on a normal site.
    As for templates, that's why CSS was invented.

    I'm happy for them, then, but I still remain very skeptical.

    Interviews aren't always more interesting to read, but the amount of possible articles in a Troikapedia is too small, in my opinion, to come anywhere close to the content interviews, (opinionated) articles and other such things offer.
    As for walkthroughs and quests....that could be interesting when tying quests together, but methinks the plain text or html files you can find as walkthroughs on the net would be good enough for that. No real added value, there.
  17. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 6, 2003
    Anyone who can suggest that uploading HTML files is better than a wiki clearly lacks the capability to grasp, firstly what a wiki is for and secondly how it works (that being multiple authors working together to create an article over time).

    I say again, to suggest that formatting plain HTML articles is better than a dynamic system when you're dealing with people who know very little HTML and don't have FTP access shows a lack of understanding of site management. Sure, there's no doubt you know HTML and I bet there are plenty of little web-sites you've setup but there's a reason databases and PHP were invented. I can tell you've never managed a site that's required input from a range of people.

    Sorry, how much are we straining the server here?

    Tell you what, you go through and take all the info currently in the Troikapedia (which isn't much), format it into plain HTML files, make a CSS template and upload it all somewhere. Then upload more stuff to it on a regular basis as people keep sending more information to you. Make sure you inter-link the articles too and when someone notices a spelling error or typo, fix it within 10 seconds. How much fun is that going to be for you?

    For something like a hokey little web-site which doesn't post much, HTML is great. For something like a bigger web-site that wants more info and has a range of people on staff, many of whom don't know HTML... No. The goal is to have a Troikapedia as large as The Vault... and that's just for one series of games. The Troikapedia is aimed to cover Bloodlines, Mystary, ToEE, Arcanum and Troika themselves.

    Are you now going to tell me the Vault should all be plain HTML too?

    Unlike Ashmo, I don't have 3 hours to spend trying to make a single image appear where it should in every browser and to hunt down the magic hack that's going to make it work in IE.

    That's great. It's a wiki. It's not designed to hold interviews and other "opinionated" content. It was solely established to provide information on all the quests, easter eggs and other things that are found in Troika's games. As well as information on Troika themselves. The wonderful thing about it is that ANYONE can write, edit or add content to the wiki without having to know any HTML nor require FTP access to the server so they can upload their content.

    If you're not going to find it useful, that's lovely. There are plenty of people who are.
  18. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Anyone who can suggest that I said that HTML files are better for what a wiki does clearly lacks the ability to properly read and understand what I'm saying.
    I'm not saying HTML files are better for what a wiki does than a wiki, I'm saying that in this case a wiki is rather useless. I'm saying that when looking at all the aspects, a wiki, in this case, is overkill, and seperate articles would make for better and more interesting content.

    No, I haven't. But again: that's not my point, I'm saying that when looking at everything, a wiki isn't needed or positive in this case.

    I repeat again: by far not all the info in the Troikapedia is useful or wanted info. One of the bigger and more important aspects of site and content management is to ignore the superfluous and add only the wanted stuff so you avoid clutter.
    Also, HTML articles usually stimulate a different way of content management. Instead of heaps of pages of small info, you get a lot fewer pages, but with much more info on each page. For instance, when talking about races, you wouldn't first make a main page about races, and then several smaller ones for the different races, but you'd have one big page explaining everything.
    Wiki and HTML content are two very different ways of offering information, and I'd say that, at least in this case, HTML content would be preferred.
    And I'm saying that could be done better with a different system and in a different way.

    I'm still in dubio about The Vault. I personally feel it's more or less on the border between what should be HTML content, and what should or could be wiki content.
    But I also think that there is more to say about the Fallout games and universe than about Troika and its three games. Only one of those three games had its own universe, and methinks there isn't as much to say about it as there is about the two main Fallout games, the canon, the bibles and all the speculation and knowledge about Van Buren.
    Hah, and you're accusing me of ignorance. Give me a break, for formatting and a universal representation that can be easily updated by changing one file, CSS is ideal.

    And that's where I disagree, I don't think there's a lot of added value coming from a wiki, not in this case. The walkthroughs, easter eggs and all are already available from a lot of different sources, and putting them in wiki format won't add anything new.
  19. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Formerly known as Ratty Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003
    Dude, have you ever actually *coded* a CSS? It's often a great pain in the ass because there doesn't seem to be a single browser that supports the standard properly. Writing a stylesheet for anything more complex than a simple homepage is likely to result in the page being displayed differently in different browsers and in none of them correctly. Attempting to fix all the discrepancies and distinguish why a style that officially *exists* is ignored by the browser for some reason can be *very* time-consuming.
  20. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Apr 6, 2003
    Except it puts them up on Terra-Arcanum, which doesn't have any of that information currently. The flexible format of the wiki also allows us to expand to more interesting tidbits as / if we get them. Better yet, we can add it as we want on the fly (which is a huge benefit), rather than mesing with getting all the content first and putting it into an HTML. We plan it to be much larger than simply "a handful of articles". Hopefully that will be demonstrated over time.

    Have fun "easily updating" that. Changing an entire layout with one CSS file is nothing more than a dream at this point in time. If you don't believe me, try something as simple as centering a div without changing the HTML structure.

    You sound like someone who just learnt CSS / HTML at school the other day. I have to admit, I used to think the same thing about a eyar ago. Until I started actually trying to use CSS that is.