UK Tuition Fee Protests

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Threepwood, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Your point emphasizes that you don't want to pay more, too bad. Oh and that nobody you know was violent in the protests, and those that were probably weren't students. Then you changed it in a later post saying college students were just as capable of violent protests. That pretty much sum up?

    Middle aged? Hardly, experienced would be more accurate. Experience from not having everything handed to me. You're about to get a hard lesson in that if the tuition hike stands.


    So you can backtrack again?

    I haven't commented on YOUR financial status, I have no idea what it could be. Or care for that matter. I have made reference in general about people paying more. Never mentioned you were poor, disadvantaged or otherwise, I think you got some kind of inferiority complex.

    Physical age? Or Mental? Cause I'll give ya two different answers.

    Authority? And here I was thinking I was agreeing with you on at least one item. Even a simple one. I guess not.

    In fact the Taliban doesn't, doesn't take an education beyond watching someone for 20 minutes to make and IED. Try again.

    Did I say you were, I was talking about my history. Understand? Re-reading my post you would understand that I assumed you have financial capability, which is why my road was tougher. But largely by choice. I didn't want to owe a huge sum.

    Ahh, I don't have the courtesy, you instantly resort to name calling due to the weakness of your argument and I don't have courtesy? I've shown far too much from my point of view. But patience is another trait I have learned.

    Meanwhile, want me to identify you age? You make it painfully obvious. You won't quote, there's nothing to quote, not once have I said you were poor. Bottom line. Try Harder. Again the inferiority complex at work.


    With all of you gesturing, I might start believing it.....nah.

    You haven't really commented on any thing yet. Ya know, some GOOD reason they shouldn't raise the tuition rates. You remember, the topic of you discussion that nobody can disagree with you about.

    Again, I never said that the education system CAUSED the mess, jebus, the education system is a VICTIM of it, and it is losing money and probably financing, just like every other government agency currently in existence in Britain, hence the largest fiscal budget cut back in your country in the last umpteen decades just being passed. Here I'll make it easy, when one thing happens, it affects other things related to it, no matter what those things are.

    It's mentions the financial status of universities currently, stating they would cease to exist without that income. Meaning, instead of banking just on foreign students (whom are paying more mind you), they need to raise rates for all students to make up. Seems right from all of the "points" (one) you've raised to the contrary.

    Any thing else?
     
  2. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    I have never said nobody I know was violent in the protests, however that is the case, maybe you could stop pulling stuff out your ass for a second, and actually respond to what I say?

    I have NOT changed my position. I invited you to quote me to highlight these ostensibal changes in view, but you have not presented them, therefor I take it for granted your are bullshitting, and you have no argument. Quote me. I shall not say it again.



    Again, you do not know me, or my finacnial status. Hiked tuition fees will be acceptable to me personally.



    I think your a narcasistic wanna-be father figure with elements of austism. But that's just my diagnosis.

    Both




    Now youv'e hit rock bottom. The Taliban have hundreds upon hundreds of training camps in Afghanistan, wherein people go to learn how to make IED's. If you think spending 20 minutes watching someone produce an explosive device makes you a professional, then you are clearly, clearly a wholesale retard. I mean that in the literal sense. Taliban spend years upon years in further education to learn how to use RPG's, firearms, Quoran studies etc.



    My heart bleeds

    Ah, apolagies, it must be that inferiority complex I have right? No, your blatant disregard for everything I'd said prior, warranted said insults/genuine observations.

    I have extensivley backtracked and quoted you, I shall not chase you further. I do not demand your age, i merley queried, it's fine if your too much of a coward to reveal your age online to some kid with an inferiority complex, dont worry about it.




    1. Billions of pounds is being spent on the nuclear dettrant Trident, which is completley un-necissary, and a pre election promise by the Liberals was to not renew it.

    2. An educated workforce is extrmley benefical to the nation, it pays for iteself many times over.

    3. Education could become only for the very elite, the man in charge of conducting the research which led to the changes, suggested removing price caps entirley.

    4. The Liberals primary promise, was to not raise said fees.

    5. Everyone should have an equal oppurtunity to education.

    6. The cutting measures are far too austere, by any economists viewpoint.




    Yes you did. No you didnt. Cause and effect. Well done.
     
  3. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    You have, but oh well.

    The thread is a lousy 3 pages find it yourself. If you can even sift through your own diatribe. What you don't see to understand is that even if I quote you you'll back track again. You already have.

    Ah, again a backtrack, now they're perfectly acceptable to you. You went to a protest AGAINST raising tuition fees, because it's perfectly acceptable to you, makes PERFECT sense, truth is it's not acceptable to you. This is too easy.



    I have many titles, father, dad, Associate, College Graduate, those that you use have never been applied to me. By anyone right thinking anyhow. If that's the best you've got, I applaud you creativeness.

    Luckily, you're not a doctor, I would fear for your family's well being if you were, being so poor at it.



    No way I can answer without insulting to a humiliating degree, so why bother. You've made it clear to anyone reading.


    Wrong again, training goes much faster when it's being applied realistically in the field. Not only that, I've seen video of an experienced bomb maker training someone. This was not a professional grade video. Easy to tell if it was edited or not, and it wasn't. It was actually less than 20 minutes. The trainee repeated all of his step successfully, there is not much to these which is why it is so easy to make them. There is a war on after all, training getting cut a little short cause we need you to kill some infidels.

    Again your reading comprehension lacks, I said someone could learn in 20 minutes, not become a professional. Learn how to do it is the key here, understand?

    And now you want to argue about how long they study the Quran? Jebus help you. (Pun intended)


    Someone disagrees with your experience (or lack there of) driven view on things and you resort to name calling. Makes perfect sense, that or you don't have a point to argue with.

    You haven't backtracked me at all, you can't, your 'efforts' are totally inept.

    Coward? Ah, the quips continue. I haven't seen you reveal anything personal about yourself yet, whats more, I haven't asked. It's obvious anyway. I on the other hand have mentioned my personal life on several occasions in this thread. And each was met with some snide comment by you, which really doesn't bother me much. But the backward thinking that somehow makes me a coward? No rational thinking adult could relate the two.


    Defense is necessary. When you don't have it, you will want it.

    I've agree with most of this several times, from my Supreme Position of Authority. (SPA from now on)

    I doubt it will be only for the elite.

    Promises get broken all the time, see Obama.

    Should, but don't unfortunately.

    Probably, but you have to start somewhere, and adjust as you go.


    I'll just repeat this, since you backtracked on it also:

    Again, I never said that the education system CAUSED the mess, jebus, the education system is a VICTIM of it, and it is losing money and probably financing, just like every other government agency currently in existence in Britain, hence the largest fiscal budget cut back in your country in the last umpteen decades just being passed. Here I'll make it easy, when one thing happens, it affects other things related to it, no matter what those things are.
     
  4. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    That's not a valid argument. You have no substance. You consistentley fail, and in epic fashion.



    Diatribe? Subscribed to thesaurus.com's word of the month newletter have we? Iv'e re-read this thread, I am aware of what has been said. That makes one of us.



    Acceptable on a FINANCIAL level, to me as a person. Not acceptable on a POLITICAL, MORAL, or HUMANITARIAN level.




    The grammar error. Oh dear. You say the titles 'father, dad, Associate, College graduate' have 'never been applied to you' by 'anyone right thinking'. Therefor you are what I described you as, by your own logic.




    Doctors work in hospitals, they dont sit around the house administering Calpol to thier families.

    For all you know, said video could have been the 500th time the person was shown how to make a bomb. Maybe he wasn't being tutored, maybe he already knew, how reliable can a terrosit video be, your argument is poor on every level. Even the learnings of a rudimentrey bomb cannot be taught in 20 minutes.

    Yes, as learning the Quran is part of thier education. That was the point of discussion, understand?



    Then you are dislexic too, for you have failed to read.



    I see no need to blurt my life story over the forums to prove myself, conversley to you, who seeks to shed his shit storm of a life with a mediocre job, to somehow, SUPPORT his argument.



    - You nuke and kill all us, den we go kill all you too

    There is the detterant argument, that dosent hold enough merit



    Then discussion/ I win.




    There is no doubt. I explained it.

    Un-der-stand?



    It's a lack of means, not ambition that has foiled Obama.



    They should, therefor raising fees is counter productive. Your arguing against yourself.
     
  5. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Wow, where do I even start, you asked for it, I'll cave and give it to ya:

    Backtrack #1
    So wait, first the fees are the issue, not the political u-turn, then its the political and moral problem you have, which is it? The answer is both, but you can't even decide that much can you? So you attended the protest why again?

    Backtrack #2
    Firstly, you mention they mostly were not students, then you say the college students are turning violent. Which is it, they students or not, violent or not? Based on the video I've seen I'm not sure how you can make a determination on wether or not they are students.

    Nope, by my own typo, I've got a few for you too :), someone so horrific shouldn't throw stones:


    That's all you my friend, just in the last couple of pages too.
    Something tells me that you are not nearly as learned or intelligent as you want me to believe. This is with a spell checker at your disposal same as me. These few examples tell me a lot, upon re-reading them. Personally, I don't put much stock in typos or grammar on discussion boards, but since you mentioned it....

    I could hardly find a sentence of yours without spelling/grammar mistakes. Unless english is your second language, then all is forgiven. But still, studying in England, you'd think It'd be better.

    Wait, are we having a discussion about the Quran? I noticed you changed the spelling after you saw me spell it....
    (Yes, I know there are multiple spellings, however I've never seen your interpretation :))

    Backtrack #3
    First I'm a coward for not divulging details of my life (even though I already had before you asked), then you admonish me for revealing them? Again, perfect sense.

    I've got no issues with my life, you on the other hand seem to be an angry fellow, which lends to the inferiority complex. In effect I didn't reveal much of my life to you, nor would I. But seems what I did, touched off another nerve with you. Maybe some pent up teen angst?

    The Deterent factor is the only factor, it's worked well for your country for the last 60 years.

    You win whom can hurl the most insults contest. Discussion contest, not so much.

    He had all the means, and all the ambition, and still failed. The entire House and Senate of the U.S. Congress WAS controlled by his party. Little productive was accomplished.

    Happy now? Of course you’re not, you un-happy fellow you, heh.
     
  6. Hamenaglar

    Hamenaglar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    100
    Jun 2, 2009
    Yes, politicians lie. But your reaction is disgusting. Are you really suggesting that we should let them do that and get away with it? There is nothing wrong with protesting against lieing politicians. Actually it's quite positive. They need to learn they can't get away with that.

    You know what? I don't like being lied to. That's why I hope UK students will get what they want.

    As to absurd arguments that it's okay that education is expensive, how come Sweden has free higher education? And their Universities are quite good I'd say. Not USA good, but still very good.

    Anyway students in Croatia managed to win the fight for free education. Unfortunately the government didn't put extra money in education and science, but rather simply reshuffled it.

    There's nothing wrong with free education, if quality doesn't suffer. Education shouldn't be a privilege for rich, but available to all who are smart/good enough. There is also nothing wrong with education at affordable prices. 3k sterling pounds seems okay with me. 9k not.
     
  7. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    *cracks nuckles*

    The fees ARE the issue. But not in a finacnial way to me personally. But on a Humanitarian level because it effects others. Understand? I am concerned for societey, not my own wallet, which may well be drained a little.

    So, although I may be able to pay of the fees. Others will not.

    (I hope you appreciate my use of short sentances for you.)




    Those quotes serve to prove me right.


    "The majority"

    Yes they are. Not ALL of them. I do not say ALL of them.

    Note the key word; MOST.

    You are epic failing here. Again, I am trying my hardest to make these sentances, as short as possible for you.



    Aha, oh dear. No I cited a grammar error, for my first language is Greek, and I have no desire to use a spelling check for one such as you.


    That's very nice of you.


    We breifley touched upon the education of the Taliban. You suggested that the teachings of the Koran/Quran/Curan/Holy book/ are not part of such, and they do not bielive in further education. Which they do. I won the argument, so you insist it never happened?

    No, I said it's fine if you are cowardly. I didn't call you a coward. But now you seem to be getting a little defensive, eh? No, I adnoshined you for unprecidented levels of mediocrity.




    Oh dear. Again. And you probably think the Cold War is still ongoing right? Guess what, nukes or no, this country would not have been attacked, in the past 60 years. If I was a betting man, i'd say the same for the next 60.


    Yes. Like guantamo ba- Oh, oh nevermind.
     
  8. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Yet the contradiction continues.

    The more you type, the less you say.


    The contradiction proves you right? Because it is, for the record, contradiction #2.

    Which is not based in any fact you have quoted so far. Just you and your friends speculation.

    But wait, the majority aren't violent, but now they're turning violent.

    Have a watch will ya, then tell me which are students and which are not, fact is you don't know.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmudJafnQh0

    Weren't you absolving them from all wrong doing a couple of pages ago?

    Ah wait, now you're Greek? You'd think that being greek you'd have a better understanding of how this works, greece being the financial hellhole that it is at the moment.

    Very good, so why is it you be concerned about this trivial sum, when your tuition is nigh on 3 times higher than even the highest estimate you've provided. Foreign students are paying far more for the same service aren't they? Quickly, you are becoming quite dishonest.

    Not buying the Greekness just yet, probably just a cop out on just horrid everything.

    Wait, where did I say they don't study the Quran at length. I said no such thing. I said someone could learn to make an IED in 20 minutes, which they can. Let me make it simple, I'm talking about making a bomb, not reading a book. You brought up the Quran, which has nothing to do with any of this.

    Hardly defensive, you've provided no basis for any argument or attack on me personally except your own loose perception of the world. My life is cool, and my job is cool, I enjoy it quite a bit. You're life seems....angry & confused.

    Defensive would be me hurling insults at you repeatedly, and even that you're quite poor at.

    Cold war? Didn't mention such a thing, in fact it's far worse now than the cold war ever was, a dozen parties have nukes. The cold war just had a few. Nukes are an effective deterrent, history has already proven this.

    You understand Guantanamo is still in operation right?

    I've proved your constant contradictions multiple times, while you constantly backpedal away, you failed to even back you strongest arguments, with any type of fact what-so-ever, I suspect at this point you probably never will. While I on the other hand have cited outside sources to back what I say. All you've relied on is you opinion, backed it with just sheer insults. You have to use insults, since you have no fact.

    By the way, I noticed you editing out some of garbage you've been spewing well after posting it. Not so confident? Nothing you say will change my mind because you won't back it with any fact.

    3000 is cheap, I doubt they're charging more just because they feel like it. Finance, this is how it works, charge more before you bleed dry. You've so far, been UNABLE to understand this concept. Anybody whom disagrees with you is "lecturing you, an idiot, lacks knowledge", ah but you've got it all figured out. Yet you can't grasp this simple concept that services increase in price over time.
     
  9. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    It does? You can be politically against the raising of the fees even if the government didn't lie about it.
     
  10. Arr0nax

    Arr0nax A Smooth-Skin

    624
    Oct 30, 2009
    TL; DR

    Shoveler is obviously american and against any kind of welfare.
    On the other side in europe, a few irreducibles still believing in some forms of solidarity remain, guided by their greek leader, Threepwood.

    The two start fighting over a bunch of words, but really the issue doesn't go much farther than that.
    In the end either you think education should be determined by the size of your wallet, either you think it's a right (even if under some conditions).
     
  11. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    the problem is that your arguments are set upon ALL school fees being 9k a year.

    there are different levels of colleges and universities.

    the "best" schools will always charge the most because they can. the cost is part of what you pay to go there.

    not everyone, even in the US, can afford to go to stanford, harvard, or MIT.

    so what you do is go to a cheaper school and maybe eventually transfer to those depending on specifics.

    of course if your school does not charge enough to pay for both the professors and the facilities, they wont have them available.

    ever think that the low tuition you pay is the reason why so many people want to travel to the US and learn our language to go to our schools vs local colleges and universities in their home country?

    if i was a top tier professor in the UK making 35k pounds a year and i got a job offer in the US at MIT paying 125k USD a year... its not rocket science which way that professor would go unless there was a very pressing reason why they would stay in the UK.

    in the US, you pay a lot more for your top tier schools because they pay more and invest more money in their professors and the facilities.

    another point to ponder for you...

    in the US its rare to have even a top tier person who went to school in a foreign country unless it was a like an economist who went to the london school of economics or an architect who went to a school in italy or france or something...

    how many people in the higher tiers of your company/government went to school in the US or some other foreign country?
     
  12. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    @Shoveler

    I will not oblige you with another lengthy response on every point. Your ignorance does not deserve that.

    I will say this:

    1. I moved to this country five years ago, from Athens.

    2. My system, near everyone can be educated, this pays for itself.
    Your system - the elite are educated and this creates a cycle of an uneducated underclass.
     
  13. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Nice timing:

    Fine by me.

    Awesome, good luck.

    In a perfect world it's awesome.

    You understand this is untrue right? Virtually anyone, dependant on highschool grades (assuming they're good) can get college loans and very low to zero interest (This is how I did it partially). First payment due after you graduate university, you can also pay as you go. You have a large sum after graduation? Maybe, depends where you go, you can pay as cheap as $2500 a semester at community college on up to $30-40 thousand per year at top tier university. A huge debt to be sure, however, your future earning potential increases by far. So it's easily worth it.

    Anyone, if they have good grades, can go to college in the U.S., anyone.
     
  14. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    "UK tuition fee protests".
     
  15. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    this is a hugely incorrect statement


    in the US there are many levels of education, all tailored to fit prospective students.

    1) program based technical colleges. usually 5-20k total for a 6 month to a 2 year program that teaches a single skill set such as car repair to HVAC to plumbing to construction to network engineering to server administrator to a nurse. they qualify for student loans.

    2) community colleges that typically charge 500-750 per quarter to get 2 year general and sometimes specific degrees. qualify for student loans.

    3) colleges which are 4 year and offer most degrees and programs and sometimes even specific degrees. some even have 6 and 8 year programs but they focus on the 4 year programs. usually cost between 2-3k per quarter to full programs that cost 15-35k a year. qualifies for student loans

    4) online colleges which focus on taking 2 year degree and turn them into 4 year degrees. costs vary and time to complete varies, some offer local locations depending on locality. typically does not qualify for student loans, but qualifies for private education loans, not federal.

    5) full 4+ year universities or specialty schools like MIT. some are internationally known and reputations. generally start getting to the "elite" side. costs usually start at 25-75k a year. qualifies for student loans.

    6) the ivy league schools which offer lots of 6-8 year programs and are pretty much all internationally known and have good reputations. qualifies for student loans if you can get one for the amount usually required which can be a lot. usually start at the 50k a year costs.


    so to recap, in the US you can go to school for as little as $500 every 3 months, not including books/extra materials.

    get your 2 year degree, get your foot in the door at places or just go full on loans and get a 4+ year degree.

    now i could be wrong, but isnt $500 USD every 3 months 3 times a year cheaper than $3,000 GBP a year?

    and typically a full time student in the US is 15 credit hours a week.
     
  16. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010




    "UK tuition fee protests".
     
  17. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    yes, and you failed to understand why i typed that wall of text

    allow me to quote one of my own posts and why free/extremely cheap tuition costs are a bad thing.

    so yea, i would rather have the US system that allows for different levels of education and different levels of school versus the UK system.
     
  18. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Pay higher taxes, and receive top quality education for 3k a year.

    Or. Pay less taxes, and be saddled with levels of education appropriate to your income, splitting colleges up, with different demographics, all receiving a different level of tuition, based on thier wallets?
    No thanks.
     
  19. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    This would imply that everyone gets the same top quality of education regardless of which college/university they attend in the UK for 3k a year. This true?
     
  20. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Yes. I trust in perfect communism.

    no.