Fallout 2 mod Unofficial Fo2 patch thread - problems, reports, suggestions

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Per, Aug 15, 2007.

  1. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    I see your point, but in reality I just copied the code from the improved NPCs and made the relevant pointer changes for Marcus and Cassidy. I highly doubt there would be an issue and if so, then ALL the NPCs suffer from it. You have a greater chance of an issue with the old way it was done than the newer.
     
  2. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    @SorgFall

    I cannot understand why you would think you know best - unless you're claiming to have even half the knowledge killap has with regards to the inner workings of FO2 scripts. Because if you don't even have that then I would suggest you beg killap's pardon and accept his decision.

    I'm not saying your opinion is less than anyone elses here, but you have to step back and recognize the experience killap has based on his endless hours of work.
     
  3. Haenlomal

    Haenlomal It Wandered In From the Wastes

    178
    Sep 25, 2003
    Found another possible issue (I hesitate to call it a "bug"). If not included in the patch, then maybe at least it's a possibility in the upcoming unofficial expansion pack.

    When you destroy Vault City (i.e. run in and slaughter all its inhabitants), you can still run into Vault City patrols in the area. A quick look into the data\worldmap.txt file shows why: there is no conditional check being made against the status of Vault City's population. Therefore, the random encounters script has no way of knowing if the player has destroyed Vault City.

    The same can be said about most of the "patrol" type encounters. With the notable exception of the Raiders, the encounters script makes no check against the status of towns from where the patrols start. While such a check isn't necessary for all "patrols" (for example, the mobsters and Yakuza from New Reno), there are a few where patrols would logically disappear or cease if the player destroys the town/base.

    1) Raiders (already implemented)
    2) Vault City patrols
    3) Slavers near Den (if you took out Metzger)
    4) Unity patrols (Broken Hills)
    5) Enclave patrols

    There may be others that I haven't thought of, but you get the idea.

    -- The Haen.
     
  4. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Interesting point. I don't agree with the slavers - bands of them could be assumed to continue operating even after their central organization broke down - but the others are valid. You'd have to find appropriate conditions, though. Either by picking a selection of key figures and disabling encounters if a percentage of them are dead, or having everyone in a location increase a kill counter towards a critical proportion (50%? 60%?). Does sound like a modpack thing.
     
  5. Haenlomal

    Haenlomal It Wandered In From the Wastes

    178
    Sep 25, 2003
    Ok, I see your point about the slavers, and I agree with it. Good call.

    As for appropriate conditions, that'd be a bit tougher. I think you'll need new global variables to keep track of the populations of each of the town or base (using the reserved GVARs come to mind, or making new GVAR values work too). Then each time a townsfolk is killed, the counter can be decremented in destroy_p_proc.

    If we really want to get complicated, we can even implement a "patrol strength" counter. It's easier to explain what I mean via an example, so here I go:

    1) Define new global variables GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH and GVAR_VC_PATROL_RESPAWN.
    2) Initiate GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH to 40 (Given that Vault City has a population of only 103 people, I think a patrol strength of 30 is realistic, given they also hire the occasional "Outsider", such as the Chosen One).
    3) Initiate GVAR_VC_PATROL_RESPAWN to some sort of inactive value (maybe zero would work).
    4) Every time a Vault City patroller is killed in random encounter (either by the player or another NPC), decrement GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH by 1.
    5) If GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH hits 0 or below, set GVAR_VC_PATROL_RESPAWN to current game date.
    6) No Vault City patrols will spawn while GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH is 0 or below.
    7) One month (or whatever) after the date recorded in GVAR_VC_PATROL_RESPAWN, set the GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH back to 40, and set GVAR_PC_PATROL_RESPAWN back to 0 (or whatever the inactive value is). For even more realistic behaviour, increment GVAR_VC_PATROL_STRENGTH by 10 each month until the max of 40 is reached.

    A bit complicated to implement, but it'll give the player a feeling of true control over his environment!

    As for the modpack thing, I'm kinda split about that (though of course killap has final say). On the one hand, killap has introduced the two new "bad" Vault City endings, so I think for consistency's sake at least, he should implement Vault City patrols disappearing when Vault City is destroyed.

    But doing that for all the other towns and bases can be very time consuming. And that's not all: we will have to take into account not only the patrollers, but the caravan encounters as well. For example, if you wiped out Broken Hills, then you should not be running into Broken Hills caravans (i.e. those carrying uranium ore), or any Unity Patrols. Given the major work and functionality change, these other stuff may be best suited for the modpack.

    -- The Haen.
     
  6. BuDwEiSeR

    BuDwEiSeR First time out of the vault

    1
    Sep 2, 2007
    Hey just registered :). Ive been using the 1.02+ patch by killap just wondering if theres a way 2 get Friendly Klint 2 character mod 2 work with this patch? Thanks also this patch is awesome :D
     
  7. SorgFall

    SorgFall Still Mildly Glowing

    219
    Jul 2, 2007
    And what Mod is that?

    I don't think so.
     
  8. Haenlomal

    Haenlomal It Wandered In From the Wastes

    178
    Sep 25, 2003
    The Friendly Klint 2 Mod is available for download on this site. Basically, it turns Klint into a somewhat versatile NPC that can join you in your party.

    As for making this mod work with killap's latest patch, only minor work needs to be done.

    Klint himself was not modified, so you can easily add his script after you have applied killap's patch. His message file was modified (presumably for spelling and grammar errors), but it looks like Klint's text file has been totally altered anyway.

    The contents under the critters directoy also do not clash in anyway, so you should be fine there as well.

    The only work you'd have to do is to merge both killap's and Friendly Klint's changes in data\Ai.txt and data\Party.txt. Fortunately, these are text files, so using something like the dos FC command should point out the differences and allow you to merge them with ease.

    -- The Haen.
     
  9. alatari

    alatari First time out of the vault

    90
    Sep 4, 2007
    New Game

    Saw a story on G4 announcing Fallout 3's firm release date and got the hankering to play a game of Fallout 2 in celebration. It had been 2005 since I last touched the game and was surprised at all the work the community had done. Actually I wasn't that surprised since all this work had to be part of the reason they finally decided to finish the 3rd edition. A game with this kind of staying power has to make money, right? ;)

    Well I'm trying a stupid small framed sneaky spear chukker and still dismayed there are not patches improving on the throwing skill weapon choices. No poison tipped darts or suriken mods? The Yakuza encounters around New Reno were a start but the developers didn't push the China Town culture far enough IMO.

    Maybe this has all been discussed but somewhere else on the site...

    There is something else I find odd. The Skum Pitt is locked and abandoned in western Redding but all you can do is get some Nuka Cola and fail to interact with the generator. Was there an easter egg there that the devs never finished?

    Killap: I'm running thru a stupid person game so if you need some beta testing on your final patch let me know. Your work is amazing and you should get snatched up by a gaming company after graduation.
     
  10. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Re: New Game

    I only corrected maybe 1-2 issues with stupid characters for my latest unreleased patch. Go ahead and play through with the one released on June 11th and report any issues.

    @Everyone.
    Is there a standard for actions in a float compared to in game dialog? For example if someone sighs in a float, should it look like *sigh*, ::sigh::, or another way? In addition, if this occurs in dialog, should it also be presented the same way? What if the text reads: "The man sighs." Is there a standard in games (RPGs) for all of this? The reason I ask is that Fallout uses all types: ** :::: () [].
     
  11. Demonslayer

    Demonslayer Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    968
    Aug 8, 2005
    I think *sigh*, *blush*/*blushes, *smile*/*smiles* is the standard.
     
  12. alatari

    alatari First time out of the vault

    90
    Sep 4, 2007
    RP Emotes

    Most RPers that I've played with use the *sigh* or *sits down with a flop* style while in-character.
    If a GM is describing NPC actions they might use "I am Sir Nister of Keister" (he says flamboyantly) style.
    I've seen ::whoosh:: style used to describe environmental special effects not attributed to a sentient being.
    [how much more time can we play D&D tonight?] I've only seen used to describe OOC information also ((That's something we should decide soon)) is used.
     
  13. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Well, Fallout 2 is really inconsistent with it and I wanted to make them all the same across the board. Some dialog files assigned to an NPC use all three so there is definitely inconsistencies.

    So, if I make all dialog floats (biological and machine) use ** (ex: *sigh*) and all actions inside the dialog screen use () (ex: Why hello there. (The man says uneasily.) What can I do for you?) would that be reasonable?
     
  14. alatari

    alatari First time out of the vault

    90
    Sep 4, 2007
    A RP etiquette site

    Here's a site that explains it better: http://www.picgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=89105

    The dev's used all three styles from the list, Prose, AOL and Classic.

    I suppose the [] or (()) would enclose a message to the Fallout player like a hint [A more SCIENTIFIC approach would work here] or ((Visit this terminal when the game is over)).
     
  15. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Re: A RP etiquette site

    Nice that is indeed what I was looking for. Thanks!

    The main issue is the inconsistency in the game which I want to clear up. I will use ** for action as text inside the dialog screen as well as floats. Hints will then be enclosed in brackets []. I am not sure whether to make user dialog choices use ** or just enclose in single parentheses (). Parentheses seemed to be the standard the devs had started with but then used brackets [] or nothing at all. I'll admit I am not a avid RPGer so should user choices follow the same action text standard as is being used by NPC actions?
     
  16. alatari

    alatari First time out of the vault

    90
    Sep 4, 2007
    NPC versus Player

    Good question.

    Guess you could stick to all one standard for NPC and player or use the AOL standard for the NPC's ::he punches the cow next to him:: and the Classic for the player *You walk over to the shopkeeper*.

    You're setting the standard for debugging and whatever you decide will be fine. :)
     
  17. SorgFall

    SorgFall Still Mildly Glowing

    219
    Jul 2, 2007
    Two Bugs

    I've just noticed two bugs:

    1) When I used Lockpick skill on the metal door in the Temple of Trials, the game crashes

    2) I picked up the Vault suit and turned on the PipBoy. On the Status button there is a choice to click Redding and there are "Clear out the mine" and "Take care of the Widow Rooney situation" in there, crossed out as well.
     
  18. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Re: Two Bugs

    Then you don't have the patch installed correctly. This is a common issue which I mention in the readme of the patch. You want to install the game, delete the patch000.dat file and install version A of my patch. In that order and NOTHING else.

    Again, the readme is there for a reason everyone.
     
  19. SorgFall

    SorgFall Still Mildly Glowing

    219
    Jul 2, 2007
    Re: Two Bugs

    Allas! Ye be right.
     
  20. bus

    bus First time out of the vault

    1
    Sep 10, 2007
    Wow, I haven't played Fallout for quite some time but today I decided to install it back on my PC and what a surprise, there's this really awesome patch that fixes all the bugs I thought will never get fixed! Great job killap and all the people who helped to make this patch.

    So here's what I really wanted to say: although the presentation of the floating text may not be consistent, I sort of like the way it is done and I don't think it needs to be fixed. Some phrases just sound better surrounded with ** and some with :::: and frankly I've never really paid attention to these differences until now. But if you are really going to change anything, I say I would prefer [] over (()) and (same thing as alatari says) ** for living things and :::: for environment.

    EDIT: Before I forget, when you steal spiked knuckles from Dunton brothers in Klamath, they still carry them in the brahmin rustling area.