Van Buren gets some publicity.

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Eshanas, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Eshanas

    Eshanas Mildly Dipped

    514
    Jul 6, 2016


    What cha think? It won't spark a revolution but more publicity can't hurt, eh?

    Apparently Avellone and co are looking into a spiritual successor? That's news to me; but if nukes are involved it fits his lore-style.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  2. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Van Buren looked like shit. I always hated that engine. It would have still been better than Fallout 3.
     
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  3. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat It Wandered In From the Wastes

    147
    Apr 8, 2012
    But it has options to operate vehicles compared to all footsloggings in Beth games
     
  4. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    So did Fallout Tactics.
     
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  5. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    I agree with the former but not with the latter. I dislike the plot of Van Buren and its ideas were better implemented in both Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Take how Joshua Graham was to be in Van Buren. An incredibly powerful companion that had the drawback of ostracizing you to almost all factions because he used to be 'evil.' Ugh.

    He is much better in Honest Hearts and a fan favorite for a reason. It's much more interesting to have a character we have heard was a total monster, and see them redeemed while witnessing the risk of them slipping. Better than having a hated character who hasn't really reached the point of repentance yet.

    Maybe he would have reached redemption in Van Buren, but it's a moot point because we just don't know what was planned, so don't dare argue in hypotheticals. I hate that.

    Then there are the Trogs of Hoover Dam that were originally just going to be a community of blonde albino human-looking middle aged men. Much better in The Pitt DLC.
     
  6. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    You definitely speak for yourself Pwener.

    I would have preferred the plot of Van Buren because whatever Fallout 3 took from it did not come anywhere near the design of Van Buren.

    The Trogs in The Pitt were pretty much a throwaway animal like mutant. The ones in Van Buren may not be impressive but at least they have a deeper role than just being there to be shot.
     
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  7. TheManFromRedding

    TheManFromRedding First time out of the vault

    14
    Oct 15, 2015
    Not really. I somewhat agree. Trog is just a name, a designation. Not a tradeoff of a concept. A rose by any other name is just as sweet. And I think there even would've been a more preferable name for the VB's "TROGS", but I think that's all la-di-da anyway. There can be weird Not-Ghoul Mutants and a Human-Mutant subset faction both, either named Trogs or not.

    The game design without question is obviously and was always considered to have been preferable, because it was meant to have always been actually a cRPG like FO2.

    The story I meter entirely different from that regard. Reading the original plans for VB I actually agree with Pwener that I found it kind of ridiculous. I'm not sure if it's preferable to FO3's. With a few tweaks to plot elements and fixing lore/etc, I think I would've preferred a plot around a regional political conflict around an experimental purifier in that base concept in FO3's rather than that space station/robot silliness in VB. I would've preferred something far more down-to-earth, no pun intended.

    That is, also excluding MZ from this hypothetical FO3. Though I think neither these hypothetical concepts for FO3 or the original VB are comparable to FO1 or 2 and don't seem that great to begin with. I don't like the Space Station nor the Water Purifier plots, both revolving too much on the machinations of individual scientists. Rather something with more intrigue like NV. Though again, it's all just a bunch of hypotheticals as stated before. Nobody knows really how VB would've been. Yes, very *likely* mechanically better. There's no guarantee it would've been perfect, or a great "Series sendoff" as I've seen some argue. Nobody has quantum omniscience to see all possible universes. It could've been fine. It could've been even possibly worse than FO3. You can only calculate likelihood. And though likelihood favors it would've been better, that's still arguing in "what-ifs". All we know for sure is that we know nothing. Socrates had it right.


    As an aside, as for the video I'm glad Van Buren gets more exposure. And the comments are all people wishing this was what we got instead of Fallout 3 and calling bloody murder on Bethesda. Of course it'll all still slide like water off a turtle's back, but it still warms my heart to see that the chances might at least be improving as the scales are tipping, though ever so slightly. :boy:
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
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  8. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Nah, Van Buren had a better plot than Fallout 3 by far. Anyone arguing otherwise is venturing down the path of Bethesda Apologists like Tagaziel and CT Phipps.

    :silly:

    Van Buren would have been something great when it comes to story. Only the Presper plotline is suspect. Everything else is golden. The Trogs would have likely been changed when it was determined they looked too goofy or whatever. Either way the ones we got in Pitt were throwaway nothing's like Tunnelers.

    Fallout 3 didn't even try with the plot. Does Bethesda even have design documents? Or do they just use dry erase boards?
     
  9. TheManFromRedding

    TheManFromRedding First time out of the vault

    14
    Oct 15, 2015
    I argued that neither really have good plots, in my opinion. Only that I would've preferred FO3's if it was more like a traditional cRPG Plotline and more sensibly written rather than like a Hollywood-Pixar-Anime-whatever it is Emil Pagliarulo tried to explain he gets his writing ideas from in that conference.

    The sub-plotlines from Van Buren I did not address. They did sound interesting, and also appealed to me personally on a lot of different levels as well. But that's still talking hypothetically, about something that has never existed, only in theory. There are plenty of ideas that have sounded great on paper that turned out otherwise.

    And yes, from my time VERY creepily stalking Bethesda devs on Twitter, apparently, they really literally do use dry-erase boards for fucking everything, and from other game devs I've talked to, not even properly. As in, drawing great big caricatures of themselves in their big thick-framed glasses and beards smiling and waving next to and over important design information and embellishing it all over with little doodles rather than keeping it strictly important information. I saw it one picture that I can't find anymore from one Bethesda dev that he posted on his Twitter Acct which showed a big meeting of devs around a dry erase-board that was exactly as I described showing their methodology for designing the buildings/dungeons/offices in Fo4 with all these big flowery words and fancy little doodles all over it saying "KEEP THE SPIRIT OF BOSTON!! :) :)" "Make sure it's POST APOCALYPTIC!" And from what I read the people hired out to do this weren't really even from Bethesda proper, but hired out to do design work? After this point you can't really take my words as a fact because I can't remember it clearly, but I do know for a fact it's what I saw and it looked ridiculous. Compared to the known screenshots of the devs working on Van Buren, which at least had erase-boards at the time that looked professional, clean, and minimalistic. Though it's not entirely fair to judge someone based entirely on what's on their dry-erase boards, the work speaks for itself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
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  10. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    Oh yeah? Freaking female ghoul whom you can impregnate is 'golden?' The hell?! Admit it, Van Buren was taking the silly aspects of Fallout 2 and cranking them to 11. I much more prefer the grounded plot of Fallout 3 even if it makes no sense.
     
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  11. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    926
    Dec 6, 2016
  12. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  13. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    926
    Dec 6, 2016
    Oh. Sorry. My poor english get the better of me.

    I confused a force of expression with the literal sense of the thing. I thought it would be hell with the devil and everything. lol
     
  14. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Nov 26, 2007
    As far as I have read, they got it all—doesn't mean they read it all, or considered any of it important. I think they just mined it for marketable nuggets; (like 'Power Armor', and 'Bottle-Caps', and 'Enclave').
     
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  15. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Fallout 3 is NOTHING but silly shit. Listen I know you played it first and it got you into the series, so you can't detach the shit from the shat, but it is pretty easy. I won't waste time making total sense I will just blurt a series of words out and people will know what I mean:

    Megaton nuke Ghoul
    Little Lamplight Immortals
    Emo Vampires
    Dave
    Behemoth Fatman
    Ant vs Robot Comic
    Mothership Zeta
    Knights of the Round BoS

    ---

    Van Buren lets you fuck a Ghoul and knock her up. So silly people might actually do that if Ghouls existed in real life. I mean...



    In OUR world.

    ---
    @Gizmojunk No, I mean do they make their own for their games?
     
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  16. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    I disagree with everything except Mothership Zeta and people wanting to shag a ghoul. But even then, Fallout 2 is still sillier - and most people here like that one. Also, I don't take this nonsensical franchise as seriously as the rest you, even if my sig leads you to believe otherwise.
     
  17. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I don't take it seriously at all.
     
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  18. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    707
    Mar 29, 2016
    Disagree other without any content is just another showcase of the person's Ah-Q mentality.
     
  19. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    Well it seems that you do. Or maybe it's late and I'm way too tired and reading every disagreeable post like a personal attack. Probably the latter. Also, the sig joke at the end should have pointed out very clearly I was joking.

    Get new material.
     
  20. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    I care about the series, but I never took it seriously. I played Fallout 1 and 2 at the same time. The goofy shit wasn't separate from canon when I played it. People didn't really make a big deal about shit like that back then that I know of, but I didn't exist online in 1998 and 1999. I didn't have many friends that played these types of games though. Of course forums like this were around, people talked about lore, but this culture we have here today in 2018...focused on canon, semi-canon, fanon, with some not even knowing how to spell canon instead spelling CANNON...

    I went into Fallout 3 knowing it would be different, but liking Morrowind, and kind of liking Oblivion. I gave it a chance. I didn't loathe it. I don't despise Bethesda at the core of my being, so much to where it twists my perspective of reality. I am by nature a realist. I have went on record saying nitpicking lore and obsessing over minor details is not only pointless, but bad for your mental health, and the entire franchise is ridiculous when it comes down to it. There is no consistency whatsoever.

    That being said Van Buren at least was true to the roots of the series. Let me ask you this...

    Why are unkillable children not silly to you?
    Is Moira turning into a Ghoul when getting hit by a nuke not silly?