What FO4 left (Spine with potential?)

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Chaito, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    Well... I have to say I read this forums for a lot of years and I aggree on all the critics about FO3 and now FO4.

    I finished FO4 today and I aggree is the worst game of the franchise. Not even close to NV, much less to the classics.

    But what I hate from Fallout 4 is nothing about the "skull" of the game. (Or gameplay). It could have been a much better game if the plot/dialogue/character writers were not retarded monkeys.

    In gameplay it got a lot better than FO3 (And I REALLY HATE FPS GAMES!). Also it annoyed me the leveling and skill system, but it is not that bad (for this kind of game).

    So, I have a friend that tells me "Bethesda always does the same, they suck at writing but they give you a good engine to modders do a better game". He indeed is waiting to play the game for decent mods to appear that do the magic.

    Started out CHR character and got bored, switched to LUCK. It is bad that ranged combat is the only way to scale a character... other builds than LUCK/AGI look pretty terrible. But with some adjustments, well who knows.

    Weapon modding is decent to good. Hate the "armor" system because is really REALLY unbalanced. Fatigues + Pieces is the only way to go. But can get really better with few improvements.

    Settlements are a piece of thrash but have a lot of potential to be a good idea if immerse more into the game and gameplay. Again, with few improvements.

    I hate Bethesda, I hate what they did with the franchise, but I think we can make some points here.

    Sorry about my english!
    Greetings from Argentina!


    [OFFTOPIC]
    Pd. Not to start a discussion here, but having an Obsidian spinoff, can be really satisfying.... if we take some points from above text.
    Pd2. The thing I hate most, but lets keep out of discussion, is they ignored EVERY IMPROVEMENT Obsidian made to FO3. All of them. RPG, factions, dialogue, humour. They don't care. But THIS game with all that, looks pretty good on paper, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  2. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    The controls of the game and the shooting elements are indeed improved but sadly those improvements are invalidated instantly by the Bethesdian design that accompanies them. Shooting elements are improved! Great! But enemies are still bullet sponges. Oh... The controls for moving your character has improved! Great! Sadly the gliding off a ledge thing is still there. Oh... The enemies AI has improved! Great! But it still uses Bethesda's engines' pathing system so enemies will sometimes have to slowly sidestep around a firehydrant. Oh...

    Fallout 4 could've been a good shooter. It definitely could've. But they tried so hard to turn it into a heavily focused crafting game and trying to toe the line with RPG elements and ultimately it excels in nothing.
     
  3. Elaxter

    Elaxter This game costs $110.

    62
    Nov 26, 2015
    A shit stain.
     
  4. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    It had some nice art and nice looking game world that the writers/quest designers unfortunately had diarrhea all over and squandered all the potential that a 7 year development time and a AAA studio had.

    Could have been the best Fallout RPG ever made, ended up with worse writing and quests than Call of Duty campaigns. Forget about it competing with New Vegas, it can't even beat Fallout 3.

    Imagine if Obsidian had an entire 7 years for New Vegas instead of the less than 2 years they were given. Obsidian, please save Fallout!
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  5. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    I aggree, but that's exactly the point. The "upsides" of the game look terribly.... "blackened"? by the writing. But if we put aside all that crap and imagine a good writing and some improvements on... armor, settlements, all the unfinished or unbalanced stuff? Well, it doesn't sound that terrible.

    Not trying to defend the game nor bethesda, just digging some ideas up.


    Also it is a pain in the ass watching reviews about the game. How can people that played tons of games be ranking it a 9.5?
     
  6. Deeves

    Deeves Well, he went a little funny in the head . . .

    96
    Jan 21, 2016
    Well, it's not Ride to Hell. It is a 6/10 all things considered objectively. Though I find it unfair to judge it objectively since Todd Howard invited you to believe the game would cure cancer at E3. It's a sin only because it delivers an experience that's entirely irrelevant to the established veteran fan's wants or desires for the franchise.

    But who the hell cares what we want, right? Us Fo3 and NV players are old stock that aren't naive wide eyed fourteen year olds anymore. We've hit our experation date, time to throw us out so they can pander and bullshit a new whole generation with no taste yet.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  7. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    I think we expired long before FO3 and NV... haha.
     
  8. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  9. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    Weird. At least here in Argentina, the pocket of Rolling Stone is sold too easy. Hahaha
     
  10. Plzstandbuy

    Plzstandbuy Lonely Drifter

    84
    Dec 7, 2015
    I don't really think so. The engine is too old and limited.

    I would use a modern one like UE4 for example.

    The only thing salvageable is the assests like models and textures.

    The lore breaking alone is unbearable for me. Fallout is pretty much dead to me since I see so many new people who just dont know or care about it.

    In the hands of bethesda this will just continue.

    Stupid crap like t-60 and cabot quest just get to me.

    The game needs to be declared non canon its so bad.

    Then the obnoxiously annoying "skeleton scenes" wich are so painful and forced the 5th time youve seen it.

    Theres almost no semblance of an rpg left in the game. Its basically an open world shooter.

    And unfortunetly now theres tons of new people brought into the franchise now who expect this in future titles and dont understand the terrible writing and lore breaking.

    Ive said it before but the original devs should come together with the guys who made new vegas again with obsidian and just create a new ip to market to the old fallout and nv fans.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  11. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    121
    Aug 21, 2016
    wow, that was actually a great article. it summed up a lot of the problems i had with FO4 very eloquently, and could span to a critique of Bethesda games in general.

    Nuka World is a perfect encapsulation of what's unbalanced in the Fallout 4 role-playing experience. When Fallout 4 came out, I was frustrated that the Minutemen were the default group. I usually play a good character, but even I felt railroaded into being a goody two-shoes, like there was no point in evil role-playing. This time it's morally flipped but with the same skewed mix: if you're playing a good character, you'll end up killing close to everyone, thereby closing yourself off to most of the DLC's content. But you're not expected to really role-play. You're supposed to roll with the gimmick, and the gimmick is "Let the player be the big bad for once!" When you step off the monorail, you're forced into a cheap knockoff of Thunderdome, and when you come out victorious, you're the new boss. Why not? Doesn't that sound fun?

    Nuka World presents evil as a theme park, a playground to do whatever you like, however you like. That's always been Bethesda's approach. Evil is the path for the player who's just trying to screw around and not bothering to pretend they're part of the world. Evil is the path that acknowledges the artificiality of the game and doesn't make a big deal out of it. Be evil if you want to pass the controller around at parties. So it follows that the biggest mechanical addition in the DLC is the option to raid your own settlements.

    It's SimCity syndrome: when your sandbox creation is in its final form, all you want to do is save the game and pick a disaster to befall it from the menu. Where New Vegas had an actual ending followed by an epilogue, Fallout 4 doesn't even treat you to a slideshow. Instead, it offers customizable settlements in every flavor, with toys and furniture of every imaginable variety. You've built your own vault, crafted Rube Goldberg devices winding through your settlements, and laid Deathclaw traps in the wilderness. Meanwhile, levelling goes up forever, and randomly-generated Radiant quests will make content to last a theoretical eternity. There is no end to Fallout 4 beyond the tipping point of terminal boredom.
    Bethesda's quintessential game-making "formula" is a disaster, which has seemingly reached it's culmination with FO4. if this is the direction their games are evolving in (or should i say, devolving), i'm curious to see what TES: VI will turn out like. if it reviews poorly, i'd honestly be feeling schadenfreude. i'm beyond disappointment, i'm just waiting for other fans to catch on and recognize that Bethesda's games are hackish, gimmicky, and sloppy (among many other things).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
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  12. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    491
    Jun 14, 2016
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  13. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    The thing I find is that Fallout 4 is so fundementally broken, that even mods can't fix this one.

    The only way you could get remotely close to what previous fallout games provide is by completely rewriting the dialogue system to give it at least a couple dozen potential options, reintroduce skill checks, rework the entire perk selection menu so that tons new perks can be introduced, ect.

    Plus not to mention that in order for any of that to pay off, you'd essentially have to either rewrite the story, or write an entirely new one.

    Ultimately, that's just too much effort for any sane human being. It would be far easier just to go back to 1/2/NV then to hope someone makes a miracle cure-all mod for Fallout 4.
    Eh, if it were just a "Make your own house in the wasteland" thing, so you just built on empty plots of land I'd be OK. It's the fact that you can order around settlers, and get them to fight in arenas that pisses me off about settlement building.
     
  14. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    This could help, but probably not :(
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  15. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    Yes, and also it won't happen, and if it happens, it won't be canon. Fallout is sadly lost of any hope. I don't like being generalistic or apocaliptic, but FO3 showed crap writing, and NV came showing the path ahead, and they did it worse. So the only thing to hope is getting worse and worse on future delivers.


    Well, the idea of having an RPG with your own towns and have them couple to factions or to behaviours on the storyplot, it is good to explode and make a great game.

    In FO4 settlements mean nothing, always the same:

    "Build water, plant multifruit, build 20 beds, build generator and tower" -> Settlement ready. And it has no use for nothing. Really nothing. You can make caps faster than harvesting crops by killing the same Gunner/raider posts over and over again. It is a part of the game with lots of potential to be good and have influence on the plot, and it doesn't. They've wasted a "good" idea on stupid Minecraft fans.
     
  16. Aurelianus

    Aurelianus Stardog Champion

    23
    Sep 13, 2016
    Haven't personally played Fallout 4 & likely never will unless I get it for free on PSN or something. But, being one of those who gives jack about spoilers, and the fact that you know... it's a Bethesda "Fallout", I have read through the main plot, the sub-plots etc, essentially spoiled every bit of story & dialogue there is in F4.

    You can tell that the writers were mightily impressed with New Vegas & tried so hard to emulate the idea of factions vying for territory, only to fail so miserably I'm actually embarrassed for their sake. How can "professionals" do such an abominable job? This is worse than bad fan-fiction. It might actually be the single worst story I have ever seen in a game, FIFA & NB2K included. I don't think it's salvageable, even the best writers out there can't make something out of this.

    The concept of settlement building is a good one, however what I envision would be to build one settlement that actually becomes an integral part of the game & acts in real time as such. Establish trade agreements & alliances with other towns, build it into a powerhouse of the region, make it an actual part of the in-game world.
     
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  17. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    I reckon if you were already Minutemen General, or a Town Mayor it would be fine. The fact that you've just woken up, and no less than a day later you lord over several villages with no prior experience of leadership, nor any claim other than being general of an otherwise dead faction, just seems ludicrous.
     
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  18. Chaito

    Chaito Led Storm.

    79
    Dec 31, 2008
    Well, I aggree on that one.

    But for me it is far more dissapointing that the concept of "Crafting" towns mean nothing to the plot, the game, the lore, and the world itself.

    Then we can divagate on how the youngest lord ever could do so!, but I mean, the idea was good and it is meaningless on the game, so it got really bad. As we say here "Feature al pedo".