Why is Fallout 3 called "Oblivion with guns"?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by norwegian black metal, Feb 24, 2018.

Do you think Fallout 3 is just gamebryo with guns?

  1. Yes!!

    23 vote(s)
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
  1. norwegian black metal

    norwegian black metal First time out of the vault

    Feb 21, 2018
    They are 2 completely different games. This seems just to be a common saying of people who have never played the elder scrolls games. Sure elder scrolls in terms of gameplay are similar to fo3 because of the exploration and just screwing around in the world, but still they are two completely different games, they only have a similar engine. (fo3 has an upgraded version of the gamebryo engine)
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    What now, Oblivion with guns or Gamebryo with guns?
    Anyway, the reason people say that is partly because of the obvious superficial similarities (like the typical Bethesdian-Gamebryo potatofaces), but also due to the similarities in gameplay.
    For Fallout 3 Bethesda adopted their own style of gameplay (first person sandbox exploration) and only followed the original games in a very superficial manner. There's the SPECIAL system, but it doesn't have that much impact, and the perks and skills are there and sound similar, but due to the real time gameplay it feels much closer to Oblivion than to Fallout 1/2. Tons of immortal NPCs, tiny settlements consisting of like two huts in the middle of nowhere, the whole "compressed map with a dungeon every few meters", very reminiscent of Oblivion.
    Oblivion and Fallout 3 start out very similar as well. You get a starting dungeon that sets up the main quest to find a particular person to solve a quest, and once you finish the dungeon you're tossed into the open world where you're basically told "Do whatever you want, take your time".
    So that's why it's called "Oblivion with guns".
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  3. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are Gamebryo games (and many more games too, even Civilization 4 was made in Gamebryo). Gamebryo is the engine the games were made on.

    To add to what Hassknecht already said. Fallout 3 also changes the "story" focus from previous Fallout games and adopts the "whatever sounds cool" philosophy. So shallow writing, shallow world building (it's whats cool, not what makes sense), shallow NPCs.
    It is also very "dungeon" oriented. Metro tunnels, caves, pre-war building interiors, etc. Leveled enemies and more enemies that makes sense for the setting.
    Real time and "player skill" related lockpick system, clutter collecting and other small things make Fallout 3 feel a lot like Oblivion did. And I don't mean "feel" as in the setting, but in the gameplay and how the world is setup.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  4. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 30, 2009
    You haven't noticed the similiarities in mechanics, playability, interfaces, intended core experience, animations, worldbuilding.... that might have led to the moniker (and it is quite accurate.... if you swapped Fallout coat in Fallout 3 to that of TES fantasy, you'd have a genuine TES game)?

    This was very often a major confusion with Beth fans back in the day. "What do you mean similiar? Oblivion is fantasy with alchemy and magiczzz, Fallout is scifi with gunzzz? Totally different." But that's just not seeing the forest from the trees.

    And I don't understand what the poll tries to poll. I'm stupid like that.
  5. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Because Fallout 3 shares far more in common with Oblivion than it does Fallout 1 or 2 when it comes to how the game is played.
    Gameplay perspective? Oblivion is first person with alternate third person which Fallout 1/2 is not.
    Looting? Oblivion allows you to pick up every knick knack on the ground whereas Fallout 1/2 limited it to some red herring items.
    Menu? It's practically ripped straight out of Oblivion as Fallout 1/2's character screen for example shows everything in one screen instead of multiple tabs.
    World? Oblivion got a giant sandbox world whereas Fallout 1/2 had an overworld you traveled on to get to map nodes.
    World design? Fallout 1/2 focused on a smaller number of locales whereas Fallout 3 and Oblivion are focused on a dungeon themepark.

    So yeah, it's Oblivion With Guns since they clearly just took the Oblivion formula and applied it to the Fallout brand.
  6. norwegian black metal

    norwegian black metal First time out of the vault

    Feb 21, 2018
    Alright, thanks everyone for taking your time to explain this common phrase in the Fallout community.
  7. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    Fallout 3 is still probably my 3rd favorite Elder Scrolls
  8. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    It is indeed Oblivion with guns but it is done on a smaller scale and offers more overall QoL. It also has a much better setting than the medieval fantasy of Oblivion.

    Less quantity but higher quality, better dialogue and combat. Oblivion was a great theme park game and being 'like Oblivion' is not necessarily a bad thing.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Oblivion is pretty much the warning sign of how Bethesda would start to dumb down their games to appeal to a wider audience. So, it's no wonder why Fallout 3 is so damn similar to Oblivion because they just copy and pasted their design philosophies from Oblivion to Fallout 3.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    The similarities are visible in the technical design mostly. Many assets are reused with a new paint job, like the overseer's secret passage was also in Oblivion if you take a close look. Part of the soundtrack was also borrowed.

    They reused the quest marker system. They kept most location within the range of another to make sure the player always stumble into something no matter the direction.
  11. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Not just the technical design, many of the gameplay design philosophies are similar as well. The starting dungeon is very similar, the main quest of finding a certain person, the general open world design that invites random exploration of tons of dungeons without any pressure from the main quest...
    It's a Bethesda game after all.
  12. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    The open world design is a big plus, its content quality can be arguable.
  13. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    It is for a Fallout game, which are supposed to be more than theme park games.
    Not necessarily.

    A game being open world doesn't make it good in and of itself if there's little quality underneath.
  14. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    I like radturtles.
  15. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    A lot of the OwG, comes from when F3 was first announced and lore breaking design.

    While Beth eventually proved our suspicions correct, the early released images of SMs featured, green skinned, blank eyed, soulless creatures. There were also plenty of images of pure ridiculousness like fucking fire swords, so popular in fantasy themed games and movies.

    1: While SMs were reduced in intelligence, they were still articulate and not mindless green replacements for the 'orcs', of fantasy.

    2: Ghouls went from perfectly sane, but, pitiable people, to mindless 'zombies', of fantasy. I think it was well established that due to their 'disability', ghouls couldn't move around very well, and they definitely couldn't fucking run. Harold from F2 can plainly attest to, ghouls were people, not soulless bullet sinks.

    There are ore examples but these are just a few.
    • [Like] [Like] x 5
  16. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    I dont see the issues there. In F2 SMs are also mindless since you mostly see them in random encounters and they attack on sight, same for some ghouls in F1. They added a few talking ones too.

    What about the way F2 brought the dumbest slavers ever, those who put up a big 'Slaver's Guild' sign in front of their base and tattoo themselves on the forehead?

    What about the way F2 introduced primitive mindstates in such a setting?

    What about all the gambling and drug addicts? F2 showed more people spending caps that people earning them making you believe that life is all good in the hood.
  17. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    All the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 are just mindless ogres who just kill anyone that is not a Super Mutant. The only one that shows any resemblance of intelligence is Fawkes and even then he's pretty stupid.

    In Fallout 2, some Super Mutants are shown to have intelligence like Marcus and Lieutenant. Bethesda just turned Super Mutants into mindless ogres because they couldn't come up with a "big strong" enemy type.
  18. mfkndggrfll

    mfkndggrfll Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2018
    So basically F3 has 1 less intelligent SM than F2 therefore all SM's are mindless?

    Or F2 has 1 more intelligent SM therefore its SMs are intelligent?

    F2 just made a super-super mutant as antagonist because they couldnt come up with anything smarter?
  19. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Fallout 3 has one dumb super mutant and the rest are just mindless ogres.

    Fallout 2 has several intelligent Super Mutants and an organized army that has good equipment and uses tactics.

    Totally not lore breaking.

    And Fallout 3 just reused the Enclave from Fallout 2 because they couldn't come up with a new antagonist. An army of intelligent Super Mutants is far more interesting than just reusing an enemy faction from the previous game. And making that faction a bunch of idiots in the process.
  20. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Nov 26, 2007
    The Unity doesn't exist in Fallout 2; the Master is long dead, and they cannot reproduce without the Vats; and those were destroyed.

    They are not stupid. The plot point in Fallout, was that they often could be, if they had radiation damaged DNA. The Master wanted Vault inhabitants to make intelligent mutants; because they didn't have the kind of damage that surface dwellers did. He wanted Prime Normals.

    Not all supermutants in the two games are stupid; and they are not always hostile. It depends on the situation, and on the PC.

    I have played Fallout where my level 1 PC explores the Mariposa base, and talks to everyone he sees; then leaves... with no combat during the visit.