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Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Cobra Commander, Dec 8, 2017.
Indie Devs have done more to save singleplayer gaming.
BGS is a lazy ass developer, I don't believe they have any passion about making games at all. They don't really do much to *save* their own games let alone saving SP games, in fact they literally patch them to break them even more. Standard Edition, Legendary Edition, Special Edition... all with same identical bugs, known by everybody else but them. They don't give a fuck either. Luckily for Beth, modders save them.
They don't have the creativity to save SP games either. They only have a single IP of their own (TES), which they've been ruining with every new iteration and they need other people's (modders, players) ideas to do something new. They are bethetic really.
I don't think "lazy" is the right term. Bad as their games are, there's certainly been a lot of effort and enthusiasm put into shoving all that shit in one place. They just seem clueless and paycheck driven (as opposed to passion). There really is a lot of potential in what they do, it is just never met because they are internally so opposed to it.
Yep, clueless is the right word, they have no idea what kind of a game they really want to make, therefore they never really see the potential in their games like we do.
Pretty confident to say that us chumps know more about their job than they do; it's not about that. It's just that they don't NEED to do it. And if they don't need to do it, as it provides no benefit at risk of even the slightest loss, why should they? It's the reason why Fallout New Vegas' Steam versions have all of Eastern Europe and Russia because an identification fuckup, it's the reason why all their pre-Skyrim games are priced equally, the reason why Fallout 3 still comes with fucking Games For Windows Live and sucks on Windows 10, it's why they never completely flesh out their gameplay systems. Really, would it make any difference if they did any of that, brownie points aside? Their games will still be praised not completely without merit, sales will remain even, releases will be stellar bugs and shit aside.
What games have you played they've done? I liked Dex and sort of liked Ruiner.
A pretty broad "they", but picking the indies from the list, including "AA":
- The Surge
- Hollow Knight
- Divinity Original Sin 2 (parts coop too)
- Sonic Mania
- Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
- The Escapists 2
- The Long Dark
- Heat Signature
- Stellaris 2.0 update
- Endless Space 2
- What Remains of Edith Finch
- Enter The Gungeon
- Oxygen Not Included
- A miriad of mods of existing SP games IE Enderal: The Shards of Order
- A whole bunch more for certain, added to updates of established or E.A. ones
Another thing is that most AAA devs already have a balance of SP and MP games, as it is only logical to do that. Bethesda has TESO, DOOM multiplayer, Quake Champions, TES Legends and that TF2 imitator that seems to have went to development hell, wisely enough. Ubisoft has The Division and The Crew, For Honor... but in the other hand they have the Far Cry, Rayman, most Assasin's Creed and what is going to be product of them getting back with Nintendo. Even EA has its "indies" branch with Unravel and the other smaller studios it owns like PopCap and the like. Nevermind how Nintendo is a decade behind as multiplayer push goes, and it still does it pretty damn well.
I don't think so; I think they usually know exactly what they want to make... and that their indecision is in figuring how best (for them) to present what they want as appearing to be what we want.
No, they don't and as they don't have their own ideas of what to make, they look into other people's mods and other games for ideas. Sometimes they even outright steal them.
lol of course they do. Everyone does. Everyone should. Popular mods tell you exactly what kind of stuff your players want. Not following up on it would be extremely stupid.
Bethesda CAN make good games. It's just that they suck at making roleplaying games.
Nah, it's just pathetic if a game developer which employs hundreds of artists, programmers and designers, desperately needs ideas from amateur mods which some people make in their spare time. They also need those people to fix their shit as well. I think they should just quit doing games.
Can they? You mean they have the potential? Well, then so do I! LOL. Unfortunately for us, they insist on doing role-playing games...
That's one of the cruxes to Joseph Anderson's Fallout 4 - One Year Later analysis. He says almost the smae thing there; that half is an open-world game and the other's a roleplaying game and Bethesda clearly wanted to do their big open adventure game and were forced to have some attempt at a roleplaying experience because of the license. I probably would have had a lot more fun with it had it been anything other than a Fallout game.
They want a cash-machine; they want gameplay that is (just barely) tolerable by all, rather than seen as superb by a few—and shame on them for that.
*They cannot steal what they already own; the price of using their mod tools, is that they own what you create with them. If one doesn't want them to own it, you cannot use their toolset.
**A possible loop-hole—perhaps, is to split your mod in two, and distribute the assets separately. But that doesn't cover scripts; especially since its done in their own(ed?) language.
*** It's also quite possible that they had many, many ideas that later appeared in user mods. Using those is not stealing; but also the mod tools EULA helps to ensure that they retain the rights to their own ideas; (even the unused ones). Imagine trying to run a company where your own ideas are claimed stolen by modders who just happened to also think of them; likely after the company did; but even if they didn't—even if they blatantly copied the idea from a modder... it's already theirs with modder's willing (or unwitting) consent—if the modder used their tools to make it.
The thing to always keep in mind about modding, is to never include in your mod, anything you are not comfortable giving away; other modders may steal it, and the developer instantly owns it for their own use.
(This might have worked to my advantage, once. I modded ladders into a game I liked—that didn't support them... until I created some for the mod, and later the sequel got ladders.)
I think you underestimate the caliber of some of these amateurs working in their spare time. I know that Obsidian hired at least one to work on New Vegas.
Name one roleplaying game they have made?
(Possibly RedGuard? —ish)
That's what every company in the gaming industry wants really. Only individuals may care about quality and I can assure you there are very few individuals, developer or gamer, who actually dream about making better role-playing games. People are generally happy with the products that they made or played.
I wasn't talking about the issues regarding the legality of using ideas from other people's mods. All I'm saying is that Bethesda *need* those ideas. Nothing you wrote above changes that fact.
Aaaaand we're back to the same hyperbolic shit as always. Yes, you enlightened eminences, it so happens that bethesda is a AAA scale developer despite making AA ones, quality and scope wise. That doesn't mean that it's unexplainable how they've got here and why they still stand where they are. "LOL they are like totes incompetent amirite" is such a non-argument I wonder what's the intention of it. Mind that the topic is Bethesda Softworks, not Game Studios.
If there's a mod that has "influenced" the whole of any of their games, please do say because I very damn jolly well want to play that. Otherwise, all competent developers will do that, and at which point logical innovations and improvements are "stolen from mods", when most of what dictates what gets in the final product and what doesn't is up to tech limitations and not as much imagination? It's one of the perks of going out of your way to make your engine allow relatively simple modding, and whole games have been built on such. Nowadays with games in constant support and noticeable post-release changes, tweaks and fixes, mods only add to it.
Looking forward for what you have to offer, then. ^^
Is there any "argument" in any of what you just wrote, or all you want is just contribute to what you call, "hyperbolic shit"? With this attitude, I highly doubt that you want a discussion.
You might want to develop your sense of humor.
Wow, I've never thought I'd miss the forums riddled with Bethesda fanboys. Good work NMA, apparently I was way wrong about this place.
We both do, by the looks of it. I do really wonder how was saying "WELL *I* COULD DO BETTER XD" any smarter than that, though.
Also TIL that you're a Bethesda fanboy if shallow circlejerking happens to bore you
Everything I wrote above—explains it; including them using ideas that were in mods; some of which they already thought of, others—just outright astounding, and so why not use them? Didn't Oscurio script decapitation into Oblivion? (and shocked a dev or two?)
Make no mistake... Their management holds them back, or it could be a corporate culture issue; or certain inept new-hires...(or some grandfathered in ones)... who knows? But they design those games to BE middle of the road crap—for marketing reasons.
If they need modder ideas, I think it's because of the publicity it might have, not so much an inability to create it themselves. They put stuff in, and take it out again—as not worth it (for some reason or another); but if it becomes worth it... they might put it back in (or even for the first time). That could happen because of a mod.
Last time I checked, Bethesda Game Studios has less than 200 employees. And remember that not all of the people who work on a game studio is an artist, programmer or designer.
Bethesda is one of the smaller (or even the smallest) AAA studios out there.
From a company that essentially make offline MMO, i don't know if i should laugh or cry...