[Fallout 2] Wierd Burst shot behavior

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by brightl1ghts, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. brightl1ghts

    brightl1ghts First time out of the vault

    Oct 9, 2018
    Hi everyone.

    I'm currently playing fallout 2 (did play it a lot, so i'm aware of basic mechanics).

    Currently i'm on a big gun (bozar) sneaky character (if that matters) and i'm having a wierd damage distribution. Chance to hit an enclave patrol = 95%, 1 BrD perk (no sniper yet, lvl 15 now). And range burst usually does 25 dmg on that enclave soldier. Sometimes it's even 13. Sometimes around 60. Sometimes even 120 (and it's not a critical burst, i'm constantly checking combat log). I'm also aware of bug with corpses which are blocking some bullets, but 25 damage from bozar with BrD and 95% hit chance feels rather broken. And usually i'm getting exactly around 25-30 dmg, everything above is kinda rare.

    I don't know a better place to ask this, and sorry if that was asked before. Would appreciate at least some sort of explanation of how that could possibly happen, that 5 bullets of .223 ammo from bozar are doing 25 avg damage =\.
     
  2. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    Hello, I think this thread belongs in Fallout RPG Gameplay & Tech thread. I'm sure an admin will move it, but in the future for game help look for the category of (Game Help).
    1. We need your character sheet (Attributes, perks, skills, traits, etc..).
    2. We need to know the distance from the target and character if possible.
    3. Is your character using drugs?
    4. By any chance do you have a dog following you that you found by a lot of dead bodies? (Pariah Dog)
    The more information the better we can assist. Chances are it's something set up or debuffing your character that's causing the oddness.
     
  3. brightl1ghts

    brightl1ghts First time out of the vault

    Oct 9, 2018
    Sorry for posting it in wrong part of the forum.
    1)
    Here is my character: https://imgur.com/buw7qx5
    Original luck was 8, got + 2 from ncr. Game version is 1.02 (US), from gog.
    Gear: Bridgekeepers robe and bozar (if that matters)

    2) Distance = 35 hex (max range for bozar)
    3) Yes, 2x jet (to get +2 str and + 4 ap, combined with weapon handling i shouldn't have any to hit penalties, game also shows me 95% chance to hit)
    4) Nope, there is no pariah dog in my party.

    Here is my typical damage output:
    1: https://imgur.com/H0j33bw
    2: https://imgur.com/MF9myje

    I have a feeling that i don't understand how range burst works. I always thought that range burst = (bullets per 1 burst) / 3, so for bozar it should be 5, which with 95% chance to hit and 1 BrD should almost never result in 20 damage, not even talking about 13 dmg, which i'm getting once in a while. I mean, i know probability can't "guarantee" anything, and i wouldn't even ask if it was just a "bad luck" for one particular burst.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  4. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    @brightl1ghts

    First off, your character doesn't have the strength required to use the Bozar effectively at all.
    Taking jet to offset the fact that your character is naturally weak wont work.

    Here's some interesting tid bits you over looked:
    Immediate effects of Jet
    • +2 Action Points
    • +1 Strength
    • + 1 Perception
    After 5 minutes of taking jet your character is debuffed with -4 AP, Strength, and Perception.
    After 24 hours:
    • +2 Action Points
    • +3 Strength
    • +3 Perception
    Chances are you're taking jet during every engagement, and is resetting the counter. Plus, you're using the wrong drug for your character. If you really want your character to use a weapon they shouldn't be I would use Buffout instead. It's effects last longer.

    Your character strength is 1, you need 6 strength to use it. Taking 2 jet does not provide enough "umph" required for the bozar to work right. That's because you can only take 2 jet at a time for a maximum immediate bonus of +2 strength. Which provides only HALF of what you need to use the Bozar.

    Also your damage output with the Bozar is on the low end, this is because your character simply can't use it right. I'm honestly curious as to how you thought using the bozar with such a weak character was a good idea in the first place.

    In conclusion your damage output is all wonky because you built a character using a gun they functionally cannot use, and have the same character strung out on jet at the same time. I don't know if you're role playing something and if you are all the power to you, but in the future I strongly suggest "inspecting" the equipment you have before just assuming it will work.
     
  5. brightl1ghts

    brightl1ghts First time out of the vault

    Oct 9, 2018
    Well i did write that i have a weapon handling perk.
    So its : 1 (my base str) + 2 (from double jet) + 3(weapon handling perk) = 6 str.

    Also, under the effect of jet , i'm not getting that message in log, which usually warns you that you can't use that weapon effectively. So i assume with weapon handling it completely offsets my lack of str.

    Are there any penalties other than descreased to hit chance, if you dont have enough str ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  6. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    It's most likely the Jet withdraw that is getting you. Any chance you are over encumbered when in combat? I have noticed that in the log during combat things can quickly zoom past without noticing them.

    From my experience when the character is suffering from withdraw or multiple status effects that influence the same variables the dialog box will only illuminate one detail, and not remark on the rest. When you see an odd result double check your character for any issues.

    Your character also has a high luck/critical chance. In this case critical hits could explain the much higher damage potential of some attacks. So in this case high damage attacks should be excluded from the data set here.

    The Bozar by default does 25-35 damage. Anything higher or lower is either a critical or flub of some kind. Distance also has an impact on how the Bozar operates. However if the character is built specifically to use the rifle then damage can easily exceed 100HP. With the right perks characters can even get into the 300HP range.

    Since it's a burst fire weapon dead bodies may also obstruct a full burst from the weapon limiting the damage to the target. This is a bug that impacts the use of all burst weapons. I know you are aware of this one, but sometimes the odd placement of bodies can through this bug into the loop even if it looks like it shouldn't.

    Also while I think this may be Fallout 1 only, .223 FMJ may not have it's modifiers applied correctly. I'll have to look into this one to verify.

    Could you outline the equipment your character is using? I doubt its impacting this but I think it may have an impact?
     
  7. brightl1ghts

    brightl1ghts First time out of the vault

    Oct 9, 2018
    About withdrawal - i don't think it's an issue, because i did tests on my save before i got addicted to jet (i'm sure that there were no any withdrawal effect)

    As i did write before - bridgekeepers robe as armor(i'm not using APA because it's immersion breaking to sneak in APA), bozar in 1st weapon slot, stimpacks in 2nd weapon slot.
    I also did test it with corpses between me and my target and without them. The results are pretty much the same.

    As for crits - i'm checking the combat log after every burst, because i wanted to figure out what's happening on my own, but out of luck so far, that's why i registered here and asking.

    The thing i've noticed - the damage output drops with distance. Even though i have a 95% chance to hit at all ranges.
    1 hex = full damage, it varies, but usually it's out of question, distribution is usually normal.
    2-15 hex = damage is around 80-100 in average.
    15-30 = total mess here, it can hit for 30 and next round it hits for 100
    35 hex = 20-25 in avg, sometimes with anomalies for 60 dmg (i'm sure it wasn't a crit burst)

    So for me currently it feels that only 2 bullets out of expected 5 are hitting it's target(according to damage), even though i have a 6 str required and 218 BG skill.

    Main question - is it always 1/3 of bullets are supposed to hit your target if you are using burst mode, or it's getting lower with range ? (Except point blank of course)
     
  8. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
  9. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    Why on earth do you have 218 points in big guns?????
     
  10. brightl1ghts

    brightl1ghts First time out of the vault

    Oct 9, 2018
    to be able to do 35 hex range bursts with 95% chance at night

    Anyway this post is about burst damage not builds. I'm fully aware of the "best" build, my problem is the damage output which i clearly do not understand.