An open letter to Obsidian Entertainment

[Josan]

Well looking at his amazingly objective and critical review of Fallout 3 here it's clear he knows what he's talking about.

I read that first line and closed the tab. god damn.

Well, with your post as forewarning, I was able to make it past that. I gave up after the third paragraph though.

 

[Drifter420]

Well looking at his amazingly objective and critical review of Fallout 3 here it's clear he knows what he's talking about.

I'm not clear as to why a bunch of you are making this reviewer out to be a BethSoft fanboy/Obsidian hater.

First, if you read the letter, its obvious he has played and enjoyed most Obsidian games.

Second, he's fed up with Obsidian's consistent bug problems (dating back to their Black Isle days.) A lot of people here give Obsidian a pass for this particular game, saying "oh, there's only so much you can expect when it isn't your license or engine and you've got deadlines from a publisher", but seriously, Honest Hearts received substantial development time on an engine they have been working with for three years. Would "indefinite" be enough time for Obsidian? Bad bugs are a huge part of their track record.

Three, it seems this reviewer's breaking point was a bug caused by a patch, not from within the game, which points to sloppiness.

Finally, there's this quote from Russ, in an article about his top 5 games of 2010:

Fallout: New Vegas is the worst game I've ever spent over 100 hours with. It is frustrating beyond belief and more than once has forced me to get up and turn it off. And yet, the next day I'm back, playing some more. {...} As much love as I still have for Fallout 3 (350 hours and counting), something about the D.C. setting, or Bethesda's heavy-handed re-telling never quite put me at ease in their version of the Fallout world. New Vegas brings the series back to its Western roots and, although still very much Bethesda's baby, infuses the series with enough influences from the series' original creators to bring it much more in line with expectations.

Lets face facts: New Vegas is bug-infested, and having put 250 hours into both games, I can tell you that my New Vegas experience was buggier than FO3 by at least a 3-1 margin. And it got worse with Honest Hearts (I'm now finding I crash on every other playthrough, within an hour most days).

So lets actually take what this random guy on the internet says IN context, rather than chalk it up to some blind love for Bethesda.

 

[C2B]

Lets face facts: New Vegas is bug-infested, and having put 250 hours into both games, I can tell you that my New Vegas experience was buggier than FO3 by at least a 3-1 margin.

Thats nice for you. Just don't assume that this is everyones experience

 

[TychoXI]

wow. I got news for this "Russ" Pitts:

1) Black Isle's games were quite bugged (FO1 and FO2 actually standing out in that department), so I'm not sure this guy actually "dated" BIS back in the day. Also saying Obsidian was called Black Isle is kinda an insult to, like, *half* Black Isle (who isn't at Obsidian).
2) Fallout3 was just as bugged and glitchy as FO:NV, including unplayable DLC.
3) Obsidian is one of the few good western RPG developers, they have they problems and I'm not gonna start citing the classic excuses for these problems their games have had, in the end it IS indeed their own fault. But yet, the games *are* good, actually in many cases they are just as buggy as the games released by other developers who somehow avoid getting frak for games which are not just buggy, but crappy as well.

 

[Drifter420]

Lets face facts: New Vegas is bug-infested, and having put 250 hours into both games, I can tell you that my New Vegas experience was buggier than FO3 by at least a 3-1 margin.

Thats nice for you. Just don't assume that this is everyones experience

That's a great point. Just because the game doesn't breakdown for everyone means there's nothing wrong, and that people are stupid for complaining when it breaks for them.

Also great is that I must be the exception, rather than the rule. Really? Then where is FO:NV getting this reputation?

 

[C2B]

Lets face facts: New Vegas is bug-infested, and having put 250 hours into both games, I can tell you that my New Vegas experience was buggier than FO3 by at least a 3-1 margin.

Thats nice for you. Just don't assume that this is everyones experience

That's a great point. Just because the game doesn't breakdown for everyone means there's nothing wrong, and that people are stupid for complaining when it breaks for them.

Yeah, because that was my point. I was totally not reffering to your comparison with FO3.

 

[Drifter420]

Yeah, because that was my point. I was totally not reffering to your comparison with FO3.

Right, again, I must be the exception.

New Vegas is buggier than FO3. It is also a lot bigger, more fun, and much deeper, and I thoroughly enjoy it more. It is also buggier.

 

[C2B]

Yeah, because that was my point. I was totally not reffering to your comparison with FO3.

Right, again, I must be the exception. .

Then its so great that I never said you were?

You know what? Like others here (not all) I had less problems with FO:NV than FO:3.


Also argumenting by accusing me of something is a pretty shitty defense, dude.

 

[exmachinax]

CDP made a next-gen up-to-date Mass Effect-esque rpg. They don't deserve rage and anger, unlike Obsidian who seem to be stuck in the 90s

Obsidian perhaps is "stuck" in the 90s, because, you know, it was in the 90's when RPGs (I mean ROLE PLAY game) were made. Simple like that. Call me nostalgic, but I see very little room to PLAY A ROLE (of my choice) in "modern" RPGs.

Mass Effect is more a squad-shooter, shoot-and-talk game. But it looks sexy, so people jump on it because "oh it is so cool".

Well, in fact, ME is cool. It's just don' let you choose any role to play besides the one the devs intended to. Which, IMO, is the sole point of a game said ot be a RPG at all.

The Witcher 1 / 2 are more in tune with the RPG way, but still... it is your average fantasy setting (with more nudity and foul language, of course), geared toward combat whether you want or not. But it is cool, too, so all is good, I suppose.

But a lot of people just don't forgive a company that simply don't realease a game as cool as it can be. Obsidian prefers to create well thought, fully realized worlds, instead of resorting to the "playground" tactic. As I said, it seems to be unforgivable.

 

[C2B]

CDP made a next-gen up-to-date Mass Effect-esque rpg. They don't deserve rage and anger, unlike Obsidian who seem to be stuck in the 90s

Obsidian perhaps is "stuck" in the 90s, because, you know, it was in the 90's when RPGs (I mean ROLE PLAY game) were made. Simple like that. Call me nostalgic, but I see very little room to PLAY A ROLE (of my choice) in "modern" RPGs.

Mass Effect is more a squad-shooter, shoot-and-talk game. But it looks sexy, so people jump on it because "oh it is so cool".

Well, in fact, ME is cool. It's just don' let you choose any role to play besides the one the devs intended to. Which, IMO, is the sole point of a game said ot be a RPG at all.

The Witcher 1 / 2 are more in tune with the RPG way, but still... it is your average fantasy setting (with more nudity and foul language, of course), geared toward combat whether you want or not. But it is cool, too, so all is good, I suppose.

But a lot of people just don't forgive a company that simply don't realease a game as cool as it can be. Obsidian prefers to create well thought, fully realized worlds, instead of resorting to the "playground" tactic. As I said, it seems to be unforgivable.

I'm pretty sure Lexx made a joke^^

 

[Tel Prydain]

" I thought that maybe if you could spend some time in your old neighborhood you would realize how much things have changed - and how much you haven't. I had hoped that seeing what your friends had done with the place might inspire you to be better."

Wait - So he’s saying the game with the choice-free world where stores are still packed with food that no-one has pilfered over the last TWO HUNDRED YEARS has anything to teach the game with hardcore mode, non-linear story, quests with multiple solutions, characters with actual character and a world that actually acts like it’s 200 years after the bomb?
I can not BOOOO him hard enough.

 

[Elven6]

I know this all comes as a shock. I wish I could put it more gently, but the fact is you've hurt me. I forgave you for the flaws in Knights of the Old Republic II. For the half-ending and the way it didn't quite capture the spirit of the original.

Didn't the original game end with the characters waving to the camera on the "beach planet"?

How foolish of them to not end their game, which opens with a massacre on a colony and ship set in a war torn galaxy on a high note!

Haven't played any of the Neverwinter Nights 2 titles so I can't comment on them but I am playing through Alpha Protocol. While I haven't encountered any bugs, the animations are pretty ridiculous and I think it's insane that they sat on that build of the game for six months without doing anything to it (I defend Obsidian's quality quite a bit but once AP released in its state I didn't have much ground to stand on anymore).

 

[HyperionOmega]

Well seems once again I agree with the minority here. Much as Drifter420 I had oodles more game breaking bugs with NV than I did with Fallout 3.
Also I had more enjoyment out of Fallout 3 and eagerly awaited NV to see if the "old boys" who made the first Fallouts could outshine Bethesda in their long lost IP.
Much to my sadness they did not. At first it seemed like it was only me that felt disappointment with the game and the DLC (I haven't played HH so I won't comment on that) but now this letter shows that a lot of people have turned against NV.

 

[Ilosar]

It's less against NV and more against Obsidian's admittedly shitty track record on the technical side (as the quote proves, he like NV more than Fallout 3). I disagree with the guy, but I can definitely see where he comes from, no Obsidian game didn't include loads of bugs (some didn't even have a proper ending, looking at you KOTOR2, even if they are not the only ones, looking at you now TW2). Of course, most of KOTOR 2 and New Vegas's bugginess was due to the engine, not that much they can do, but Alpha Protocol was very much their fault.

 

[Lexx]

3) Synchronizing choice&consequence between multiple DLCs coming out at different times is a nightmare, and eliminating it is even worse. The fact is, Fallout's modular nature does not lend itself to the concept of DLC, only to the concept of fully-fledged expansions, where the content inside is fully synchronized and debugged to work with the actions from previous game.

While I don't denie the truth in this, I don't think it matters much for FNV, as it's DLCs are pretty much separate from the main game, except some minor connections. So it's not like a FNV DLC is fiddleing around a lot with content from the main game.
I'll guess the ED-E bug is a pure and totally unexpected bug. I mean, seriously, who would have thought that something like this can happen at all? Even as a tester, I wouldn't have thought about testing such thing.

I'm pretty sure Lexx made a joke^^

Yes, but sarcasm doesn't work well with text. :>

 

[sampson70]

Lets face facts: New Vegas is bug-infested, and having put 250 hours into both games, I can tell you that my New Vegas experience was buggier than FO3 by at least a 3-1 margin.

Thats nice for you. Just don't assume that this is everyones experience

I totally agree that FNV was bugger than FO3.Maybe its was different for most of you PC gamers,but the 360 version was truly worst.

 

[Killzig]

It was the first time that engine had been called upon to handle real RPG scripting, the bugs were expected.

 

[shihonage]

While I don't denie the truth in this, I don't think it matters much for FNV, as it's DLCs are pretty much separate from the main game, except some minor connections. So it's not like a FNV DLC is fiddleing around a lot with content from the main game.

I addressed this in the rest of my post. Isolated corridor DLCs are not a graceful way to expand a C&C-rich game like Fallout. It is a way to expand isolated corridor games like Mass Effect, where freedom has always been entirely illusionary.

 

[Khan FurSainty]

I addressed this in the rest of my post. Isolated corridor DLCs are not a graceful way to expand a C&C-rich game like Fallout. It is a way to expand isolated corridor games like Mass Effect, where freedom has always been entirely illusionary.

Or, a better idea, drop the DLCs as a whole and get back to expansion. I know it's not going to happen because of financial problems, but if you get to a point where you need to sell parts of a game just to stay in business, you might as well just put on your coat and developer hat and look for another job.

 

[C2B]

Haven't played any of the Neverwinter Nights 2 titles so I can't comment on them but I am playing through Alpha Protocol. While I haven't encountered any bugs, the animations are pretty ridiculous and I think it's insane that they sat on that build of the game for six months without doing anything to it (I defend Obsidian's quality quite a bit but once AP released in its state I didn't have much ground to stand on anymore).

Regarding AP. The whole development was a mess for internal and external reasons. The 6 month wait time at the end was on SEGAs end though. Also the PC patch was in QA Hell on SEGA before it was released.... For the US Version... It needed a steam release for SEGA to adjust the executable for other countries.

You can read a lot of it in the Something Awful Alpha Protocol Thread where a Ex-Obsidian employee also posts (Patrick K. Mills)

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3308998&pagenumber=253#post392028548

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3308998&userid=19836

(Patrick Mills is Comte)

Still its actually my favorite Obsidian game and by faaaar the least buggy. As for unbalanced gameplay. I would have trouble naming it worse than NWN2, But that had more options so it wasn't that obvious.