Are you concerned about a decline of family values?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Shaodeus, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. Shaodeus

    Shaodeus Still Mildly Glowing

    279
    Apr 28, 2016
    Less people are getting married and many people who do get married divorce a few years after. The number of single parents raising kids just seems to be ever increasing and I fear that many kids will suffer because of this.

    What's your opinion on this matter and how would you like to see it fixed?
     
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  2. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    553
    Dec 15, 2015
    Not subsidizing it would certainly be a good start.
     
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  3. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Considering how fucked a man can get cause of divorce i dont rly see it as surprissing.
     
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  4. Millim

    Millim Half-way Through My Half-life
    Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    Eh... In all honesty, it's better for everyone if honesty is the approach, there are many reasons for divorce, inhouse fighting, cheating, domestic abuse, substance abuse, no more love anymore.

    My opinion is, it's better to just split if things don't work out, a split environment is much better for a child's development than a toxic one.

    But that's just how I see things.
     
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  5. Shaodeus

    Shaodeus Still Mildly Glowing

    279
    Apr 28, 2016
    Shouldn't we look for ways to avoid a toxic household altogether?
     
  6. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    At the end of the day we're still going to be human.
     
  7. Millim

    Millim Half-way Through My Half-life
    Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    It's really not as simple as that.
    Look, Humans are asswholes, I'm an asswhole, you're an asswhole. The only known cure is Genocide. Until then, we have to make do with the best of the worst, the lesser of two evils.
     
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  8. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    Don't really care all that much about family values. My parents got divorced when i was little and it never really bothered me.

    Do we have any statistics on this? Might be a better place to start off, i think.
     
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  9. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    My opinion is that what people do in their private lives is their business, and believe me a single parent home is a lot better for kids than being in a house with two people that hate each other.
     
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  10. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Family values are also something that were once kept together strongly by religion and culture. The stigma of divorce is no longer as problematic as it once was. So family values are going to have to adapt to that. I wouldn't say that the problem is keeping the family together. I'd say that the problem lies in the family that was formed in the first place. Society has changed, so has the people, and in turn that will alter how they view family values.

    For example, me? I don't want to get married or have kids. That's not what I want out of life. My parents has stayed together for 27 years and they can't fucking stand one another. I don't want that. I want to live my life the way I want to live it. So to me the concept of "family values" is completely meaningless.
     
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  11. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    I disagree that we are declining in family values, and I would argue that most of the examples you gave are not necessarily a bad thing.
    Why does this matter?, Maybe people just want to live unmarried lives?, Maybe some people don't see anything special about marriage?, Don't see why Less Marriage = Necessarily Bad.
    While I understand why this may be a controversial issue, I don't really see it as proof of decline in family values. I'm guessing that most Single Parents aren't that way by choice. Maybe it was an accidental pregnancy, or a death, or maybe they had to leave there partner for whatever reason.
    Guys....I think we should be careful around this guy, he seems to be up to something.
     
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  12. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    I think it is not a really a problem with family values. Times change.
    I do think all this stuff about how wonderful single mothers are is rubbish.
     
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  13. Shaodeus

    Shaodeus Still Mildly Glowing

    279
    Apr 28, 2016
    Oh yeah I don't mean that people are evil and mean children harm, its more that I'm concerned about that people don't take raising children and marriage as important anymore and that that is a factor that leads to divorces and shitty marriages.
     
  14. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    This stuff can't be forced.
    For example, generations born into safety will naturally be more unaware of risk and risk-prevention, than people born into struggle.
    My grandparents still have the mentality of don't-throw-food-away, that they've had since the 1940s and the mother-of-all-wars.
    Those born in the 80s-90s are probably the worst offenders of my-little-prince syndrome, but there really is no way to force this to change, other than to throw a war in their face, hope they survive that war, and then hope they took lesson from it, if not, throw another war at them.

    Human nature is chaotic and difficult to just plan or force.

    Also, this kind of stuff kind of sorts itself. A bunch of "little princes" are going to fail at real society, and this leaves plenty of non-princes a chance to excel. It's a minor issue blown out of proportion by a bored mass media, a bit like gamer-gate is/was/is it still going? That's another thing I would LOVE to try to explain to aliens - "it's a HUGE crisis!!!" "your... games?" "YES, our GAMES! Our games are IMPORTUNT!!!"

    Family values are important, sure, but they are also not "in danger", mmmooossst families still have values. They might not be all 50's-idyllic, Father no longer smokes a pipe, and Mother sometimes unties her kitchen apron, but then again, if we're only going to use the past as an ideal, then we should to it properly, and go ALL the way to the REAL past and ORIGINAL family: The hunter gatherer.
    Bring back the stone-tipped spear! D': Copper ruins our values!
     
  15. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Concerned about the decline of family values? Not really for family values. Our family values are quite antiquated & could use a good rebooting.

    I'm however more concerned about a general decline in western individual values. Freedom of speech, egalitarianism, responsibilization, and so on. These values are chipped away from within and without. It makes me uneasy.
     
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  16. Shaodeus

    Shaodeus Still Mildly Glowing

    279
    Apr 28, 2016
    Yeah we should become tribals, start a no mutants allowed tribe. Mr Fish can be the shaman and impart wisdom on our souls.
    I have heard theories and have my own ideas that the loss of freedom of speech, egalitarianism, responsibilization and so on are linked to the loss of the importance of the atomic family. Kids that are raised by two loving parents perform significantly at school and the workplace on average, the percentage of teenage pregnancy is much higher with girls that have been raised by a single mother, I have also heard that 80% of rapist have been raised by single parents but I did not hear much of how they reached to that conclusion.

    Overall I wish that we as a culture took marriage more seriously, that housewives are not frowned upon but instead more celebrated. I have talked about this with people my age and they never or barely think about getting married in the future and what responsibility that will ask of them.
     
  17. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Yeah I'm gonna give ya'll a heads up cause I like you guys, if I ever get that kind of power and influence I 'am' going to use it to form a death-cult that sacrifices themselves so that I can feast on their blood and flesh. (I ain't kidding around when it comes to yummy cannibalism.)

    Marriage isn't the important factor here though. The important factor is that they are "single parents" and that there isn't enough "joint custody". I have two friends who got divorced from their wives who they had a kid with (guy+woman+baby, guy+woman+baby, two separate couples n babies) and the important thing here is that they are helping with raising the kid and they're all doing just fine.

    Taking marriage seriously for the sake of family values isn't important at all cause marriage is an archaic institution that is outdated and just used by media and shit to sell things. What 'is' important is taking responsibility for your actions. That's what being a grown up is all about. And if you bring a child into this world you need to take responsibility for your actions. What is important is the child, not the marriage. You can't force yourself to love someone you've outgrown. You can't accept the person you used to love has now become. You can't throw your ideals and principles out the window cause it suddenly conflicts with the one you once said you'd love your entire life out. Relationships like that aren't forever. We outgrow our jobs, our home towns, our friends and for some of us (like me) even our family. And we have to move on to new jobs, homes, friends or family. And if we can outgrow those things then it shouldn't be the slightest bit surprising that we outgrow love. But if we let some ideal chain us down then we'll never grow and we'll just grow ever more miserable (just look at my parents...) as we're not comfortable were we're at and eventually we might become complacent with our shitty lives and won't even 'try' to grow anymore and we just stagnate.

    Marriage, true marriage, 'should' be taken seriously, but it isn't necessarily important to the growth of a child nor the health and progress of your future self.

    As to what true marriage is? Basically, you been together for 10 years and you're still madly in love? Get married, might as well reap the tax benefits at that point. (I really don't see how marriage is important at all in any other way. If you love someone then why exactly is marriage important? You don't level up your Love stat from 27 to 30 just cause you get married. Marriage is just legal shit really. The romanticized idealistic marriage is not possible for many people, it's only for those who truly find their soul-mates and for religious people that somehow feel more spiritually connected once they share rings)

    Another thing is to be cautious about marriage. Cause divorce? It can be a bitch.

    [edit]

    But.
    (And this is a big but )
    I have never been married nor have I ever even had the faintest sliver of interest to get married so I may be completely speaking out of my ass.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
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  18. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    You make quite a lot of generalizations when it comes to marriage. Let me impart a little of my experience as someone who both has been married for a lot of years and married young. A marriage can go south for the smallest things that are nobody's fault, my wife and I do not spend near the amount of time together we would like(kids, work,etc), and while I don't regret getting married both her and I regret not spending more time having fun before we started playing house. So when you say people your age aren't talking about marriage, I say good, find out who you are on your own not 5years of marriage and 2 kids down the road.
     
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  19. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Actually, isn't this whole notion of the "nuclear family" a rather new one?
     
  20. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    I think the importance you give to the family is overestimated. Values can be taught outside of the family.
    We have just failed as a society to ensure the correct values are passed on while instilling them with a sense of community and making sure that the kids are properly educated.
    I feel social control has faded due to families folding back upon themselves. So your lauded family values might actually be detrimental on the long run. ;)

    That depends on your frame of reference, obviously.
     
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