Bethesda is destroying the gay legacy of Fallout

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Weathered, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Weathered

    Weathered First time out of the vault

    Nov 13, 2015
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  2. SaucyLad

    SaucyLad Stuck in a Fridge

    Nov 20, 2015
    Can't you still be gay after you leave Vault 111 though? I seem to remember Danse hitting on me a lot during my first playthrough.

    Just roleplay that you came out of the closet after the bomb fell and that Nora/Nate were never a real thing.
  3. sallou

    sallou First time out of the vault

    Nov 23, 2015
    But thats not being gay, its being bisexual. They are still forcing a lot on my character/me. That I married an opposite sex parter and had a child. And the whole nuclear family thing is thrown at you for the whole game.

    I know you hate SJWs here, but this time, theres a point to be made. Its bull from Bethesda.
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  4. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    Jul 7, 2014
    You do realize that forcing a canon onto your character is nothing new. F:NV forced you to not only be a courier but also a key part of the Divide's success. F1's main character is canonically male and most likely Albert Cole, and I know there's more somewhere. Besides, maybe the whole Nora x Nate was a sham and they were pretending to be straight.
  5. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    I don't even know how to respond to someone who writes off the immense limitations of the voiced protagonist in Fallout 4 as being even in the same ballpark as starting out as an unvoiced courier in New Vegas.

    No amount of debate can possibly convince someone as unreasonable as yourself that Fallout: New Vegas or Fallout 3 had more opportunity to role play the protagonist the way you wanted to play him or her.

    Thankfully there are plenty of reasonable people here who can see that the voiced protagonist and AWFUL DIALOGUE WHEEL with a total of FOUR CHOICES in Fallout 4 with the set backstory is far more limiting than previous games, and the only people who think this is even in the same league as New Vegas or the original Fallouts are patently ignorant.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
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  6. Sheepo

    Sheepo First time out of the vault

    Nov 23, 2015
    Eh, just a consequence of the excessive streamlining and player character exposition. When I saw in the video you can actually still romance same-sex characters I just dismissed the whole thing as inconsequential, there's always going to be discontinuities between your personal backstory and your characters. I'm not convinced Fallout 2's shotgun marriage was exactly meant to be a progressive statement either, lel. But yeah, there looks to be an annoying step back in the role-play department.
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  7. sallou

    sallou First time out of the vault

    Nov 23, 2015
    Its not inconsequential and that I can still be gay if I just ignore my marriage and child. I mean they specifically took out the cherchez le femme and bachler perks. You can choose the flirty perk for dialogue benfits and it specifically says "opposite sex only" in the guide. And the entire story of the entire game is centered around my characters heterosexual relationship and the love she has for him.

    @Irwin, sometimes its not even 4 options. Most of the time its 2 answers over four buttons -Yes -Ok -No and -Why
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  8. Alexmikli

    Alexmikli First time out of the vault

    Sep 21, 2015
    I'll admit, I have played a lesbian in every single Fallout game, so the the predetermined background did miff me a bit there too. At least we have more meaninful relationships in this game than the previous games, albeit they still boil down to lockpicking 100 times and passing a speech check to get a perk.
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  9. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    Piper was in love with me within 30 minutes of interaction. You can do the same for any other companion, so I'd hardly call that meaningful but that is just my opinion.

    In my humble opinion, the companions in Fallout: New Vegas had better writing by far even if interaction with them was limited. Their backstories and voice acting was hundreds of times better.
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
  10. sallou

    sallou First time out of the vault

    Nov 23, 2015
    Its funny to me. Beth tried to copy a lot from Bioware, but in places where it didn't suit and did it terribly to the detriment of their game.
    Bioware tried to copy Beth with DAI, but in places where it didnt suit, and to the detriment of their game*.

    *ie big open world... but with lifeless fetch quests bereft of detailed story, deep conversations or more than one part to the quest other than get this or kill that.
  11. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    You also had more options other than "Press Y for Flirt" when interacting with companions, but don't let that get in the way of the fanboy narrative that Fallout 4 is no more limiting than New Vegas, 3, 2, or 1.
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  12. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Gyro Captain

    Dec 11, 2013
    Previous games definitely gave you a lot more latitude to define your character's background:

    Fallout 1: You come from a Vault (every other chracteristic is up to you to decide)
    Fallout 2: You come from Arroyo (but have the freedom to design your character however you want)
    Fallout 3: You come from a Vault, have Daddy issues (but otherwise can create your character however you want)
    Fallout NV: You are a Courier (but otherwise can create your character however you want)
    Fallout 4: You are either an ex-military widower looking for his son, or a lawyer widow looking for her son; there is no skill system, you have a voice, limited dialogue options, etc. You can to react to newspapers? And how to kill things, of course.

    It's pretty clear that Fallout 4 restricts you in ways that the previous games simply don't. I don't think you can reasonably compare the backstory of the Divide in New Vegas (which is part of a DLC which some people may not even choose to play) with a game that saddles you with a previous profession, marital status, a child, the expectation that you are going to care about all of that, and a voice.
    • [Like] [Like] x 12
  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I hate it how some people compare the Fallout 4 background and the original game's background. The fuck how that works?
  14. Swastakowey

    Swastakowey First time out of the vault

    Nov 11, 2015
    I don't care about pretend video game sex at all... but for those that do this issue is purely because you are trying to role play in a game that doesn't allow it.
  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Personally I never cared for this, but the fact stands that your background is limited.
  16. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    Jul 2, 2015
    There's a pretty big difference between someone's job or something that they did for a while and something that's a core part of someone's identity (their sexual orientation.) I mean, in NV you can roleplay someone who is incredibly dedicated to their job or someone who really doesn't care so much, someone who really cared about the Divide or someone who hardly remembers it at all. Fallout 4 by contrast dictates that not only did you have a husband/wife but dictates how your marital interactions go, and since you have a kid you couldn't even RP an asexual character.

    At the very least, if Bethesda had wanted to allow the possibility that the pre-war couple was engaged in a sham marriage in order to hide up their less socially acceptable predilections, they should have at least contextualized that in the actual game.
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  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah the game is a bit forward in showing how much you two care.
  18. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Carbon Dated and Proud

    Nov 26, 2007
    Why is it that no one seems to accept that the character is the role?

    Of all the many and varied problems I have with Fallout2, FO3 and FO4, and even a few in Fallout ~the PC background was never one of them; and the lack of background in Elder Scrolls was my chief peeve with that whole series.

    Immutable constants in a PC's history help to better define the role; they actually make it easier to extrapolate how a character would behave ~when not playing a sociopathic/quasi phychotic PC; and when you are playing one of those... where is the challenge in roleplaying that? Anyone can roleplay the joker, try roleplaying Alfred sometime.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I don't know, because many prefer having a blank character which means we can roleplay as a million personages that can affect the game somewhat?
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Maybe because none of those games have actually classes. No clue, really. I am just guessing here.

    When I compare let us say Oblivion with your typical D&D game, you chose a lot more restrictions, which in some way dictate your behaviour. A Cleric certainly isn't the same as a Druid and you will run in to issues if your law-full-good Paladin starts to behave like a thief. If I remember correctly a Paladin had to keep even a high reputation, or he would loose his class and become a warrior/fallen Paladin at some point or somerhing. Not sure.

    The Elder Scroll games - and now Fallout too ... are build around the idea that there are never ever real consequences to your actions. So, in such a design, it doesn't matter anyway if your character has a story or not. The world you're playing in, simply doesn't give a **** anyway.

    I personaly feel backgrounds work best when you have actually real consequences to your choices and classes to chose from. That way you can work out nuances and big differences. As far as Fallout goes, you don't have really many choices as far as your background goes, as you always start as the Vault Dveller or the Chosen One, you don't have the choice to eventually be a "Merchant" Class or a kind of "Healer" or what ever.

    But like I said, no clue really, maybe I am absolutely wrong with this idea.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1