But was the spirit preserved?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by 3rdRate, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. qi

    qi First time out of the vault

    52
    Oct 29, 2008
    It's silly to ask about the presence of a "spirit." That's such a nebulous concept - it can mean anything and, as a result, no definitive answer can ever be reached regarding it.

    Fallout 3 lacks fundamental qualities of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, not to mention Arcanum, Planescape Torment, V:M, and other truly good role-playing games. These qualities are quantifiable, they can be listed, they can be defined and dissected - they are concrete. And they've been gone over a hundred times already, so I needn't bother with them again just for this likely-ignored post.

    What it comes down to is that the developers at Bethesda simply have no taste. It's as if the only literature to which they've been exposed is paperback fantasy/sci-fi, and the only films they've ever watched are the new Lord of the Rings and the Star Wars series. These are people whose souls are devoid of artistry and want only to dazzle you with spectacle.

    If one can't grasp that, then that is proof positive of one's own lacking taste, which makes all dialogue with such a person useless.
     
  2. chaosapiant

    chaosapiant It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Oct 30, 2008
    I tend to disagree with the notion that Bethesda are not good writers. i do believe the dialogue can be lacking at times in F3, but I think that is more to do with the fact that this is (AFK) Beth's first attempt at a true dialogue tree, and not a topic list.

    Anyone who played Morrowind, and to a much lesser extent Oblivion should know that Bethsoft are actually very good writers. It comes across more in their background info though. The whole ALMSIVI thing in Morrowind, along with the books you could find were amazing. The whole backstory to the Elder Scrolls series is very deep and phenomenal, and decently removed from anything resembling Tolkien.

    Granted, Bethsoft trying to shoehorn their particular writing style into an existing canon and IP does come across as a bit awkward at times.
     
  3. Gooscar

    Gooscar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Oct 28, 2008
    I don't think they're terrible writers, but the honestly my one big complaint about FO3 so far is the dialogue, in the sense that it's missing a lot of character the other Fallout titles had, so far while they're all unique people, most of the characters with the exception of 3 Dog, Moira, and Dad, are easily forgettable characters.
     
  4. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    As you can see, lots of people did get emotional over a franchise, so it means something.
     
  5. squinty

    squinty First time out of the vault

    77
    Sep 2, 2008
    Agree with the posts saying that the game is how I imagined Fallout in 1st person.

    The details are all there: the footlockers, the filing cabinets, the foodstuffs, the vault corridors.....all excellent recreations of their previous 2d incarnations.

    The 'exploring music' though when you are in a school/prison/underground - whatever - did it for me. Very Fallout. Really caught the atmosphere for me.

    On a personal note, the Nuka Cola robot is awesome!
     
  6. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    Mmm... Yeah I agree with the idea that it holds up to some sort of vision of Fallout. It has a feel all its own at times that can be quite amazing.

    There is no doubt the community at large finds it a little hard to swallow but I'm sure once the mods start pouring in the tune will change for the better.

    And Qi, I think you're missing the point of the topic. I think we all know what was meant by the "spirit". No need to make the guy feel like an idiot, theres far better ways to go about it.

    ... I personally like Todd Howard, he's cool and you can tell he cares about what he's doing.

    Oh and squinty, nice Neutral Milk Hotel quote! In The Aeroplane Over The Sea right?!?!
     
  7. Tapakidney

    Tapakidney First time out of the vault

    21
    Oct 31, 2008
    No one accuses him of not caring. Of course he cares, but he doesn't care about what old fans of the series care about. No, he just cares about making something that will sell.
     
  8. Plissken

    Plissken It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    Jun 5, 2007
    The outcasts are the real brotherhood.
     
  9. qi

    qi First time out of the vault

    52
    Oct 29, 2008
    I do, though, accuse him of being definitely not cool.
     
  10. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    The position he is in makes it very hard to please both sides of the thin line he was walking on during the production of this game. But, in the end isn't him making something that will fit the expectation of both the fan base and the people he works for (ie pushing copies) a success? One has to go into a remake of their favorite movie knowing that the new director does not have the same skills as the former, but rather a completely different set of skills. If you don't you will be hurt every single time.

    I'm coming from the perspective of enjoying Fallout 3 a lot, and thinking Todd is cool...so...there's that.

    Lol... that is your opinion Qi, heh.
     
  11. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    Todd is a liar.

    But, let's go back to the topic.

    The spirit of Fallout 3 is like in TES series.
     
  12. Pope Viper

    Pope Viper This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Dec 9, 2003
    Thing is, he tried to please everyone and failed at all.

    - Tried to appease old time fans by putting in VATS. Failed, it's serves no good purpose.

    - Tried to appeal to the FPS crowd, from what I've been hearing by quite a few non-media folks is that it's at best an average shooter.

    -Tried to appeal to the RPG crowd by it's "indepth story, actions having consequences", whereas I find 90% of the stories so far as shallow, and the actions having consequences to be laughable to this point.

    - Tried to improve on Oblivion. Radiant AI is still a broken POS, the world is large, but it's relatively empty and boring, and the textures are laughable. Once last word. Voice acting.
     
  13. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    Liar how?

    And I don't understand your comment about TES and Fallout...

    I guess that's a matter of opinion then... I enjoy VATS, The AI isn't broken from what I've seen and played. With about 75 hours in Oblivion and a great deal in Fallout 3...

    The voice acting is an improvement on TES, where it could get pretty harsh. Their expansion The Shivering Isles was the first step to better voice acting and I think Fallout 3 has improved it further.

    I think what you mean is he tried to please everyone and failed to please you, because there are plenty of people who enjoy the game Viper.
     
  14. Pope Viper

    Pope Viper This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Dec 9, 2003
    Did I indicate that there weren't plenty of people who enjoyed it? No, I think not.

    If that's an improvement in the voice acting, OB must have been pretty bad.

    When I got to a location, and literally every male sounds the same, that's broken.

    AI. So, I can leave the Vault, after wasting a group of people, and can stand outside the door, and they can't come get me, fire at me, etc? I can kill various people in front of others, and they don't react? I can steal from right in front of someone,with no special stealth actions, and it's no issue? Broken.

    VATS - Yes, it is a matter of opinion. It was sold as one thing, and appears (to me) to be something else. If you like it, more power to you.

    I've been playing games since 1983, and while it may sound egotistical, I've played a lot of good and bad games. In my book, there are a lot of things regarding this that are bad.

    But like you said, it's an opinion. For every dissident about it, there will be some BJ'ing advocate.
     
  15. squinty

    squinty First time out of the vault

    77
    Sep 2, 2008
    VATS is the one thing that seems to rile quite a few people. I think many people are under the impression that Beth just threw it in. Personally I think that it incorporates a tactical system quite well. Example: Fighting Nukalurks (tough little buggers!) used vats to rifle their eyes and then switched to shotgun when low on AP to keep them at bay until ready to go tactical again. I can't think of a better way for this to work in an FPS game. Full turn based? Shouldn't be to tricky to mod the VATS to accommodate that but I kind of like the weapon juggling.

    @Ihniwid - everyone should hear it at least once!
     
  16. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    Ah ok, I get it, fine. You're the dissident and I'm the BJing advocate. I thought we were having a decent conversation but it appears to be more of an attack.

    Whatever then... you've got the experience so my opinion must be completely wrong. Your forum Pope.

    Definately! One of the best bands to have ever graced a stage.

    I agree, vats is pretty cool, in a heated fight its pretty cool to juggle weapons and real time/vats.
     
  17. Pope Viper

    Pope Viper This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Dec 9, 2003
    I don't think I was referencing you, but if you felt I did, I apologize.

    This is all in good fun, don't you think?
     
  18. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    Its all in good fun, yeah. Just see no need to call people who enjoy the game BJing advocates is all...

    Anywho... Bethesda has its positives and yes there is some iffy dialogue delivery but all in all i thought it was well crafted. There is a lot worse...a whole lot worse.

    I found the written work to be tighter, like the computer entries and such. The museum of technology was well done, for example.
     
  19. Pope Viper

    Pope Viper This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Dec 9, 2003
    Agreed, I liked the museum of technology. I'll give you that one.

    I still think the dialog sucked. :)
     
  20. Ihniwid

    Ihniwid It Wandered In From the Wastes

    106
    Oct 30, 2008
    Lol, fine, we agree to disagree.

    One thing I do find silly is the character animations... especially the character's third person perspective. It's better than TES-OB but still far from being acceptable. Its like everyone walks on some sort of air-ride, like a air hockey table.