Damn Gothic 2 is a masterpiece

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by The_Onesin, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. The_Onesin

    The_Onesin First time out of the vault

    Oct 3, 2013
    I posted about how shitty Gothic 2 was before. I think it was like 4 months ago or something.

    Well now I'm freaking addicted to it :eyebrow:

    Seriously this game gotta be one of the best RPG ever. The details, character progression, and choices are just insane. Maybe developers were smoking 9000 swamp weed, or it will be nigh impossible to come up with such massive RPG with so many hand placed details.

    Character progression is what I love the most about this game. There are so many skills in this game which all have their uses. I was pleasantly surprised that you can even learn a language and use it to actually do something. Also you can actually see how strong your character became after conquering enemies which were impossible to beat at low levels. My first Shadowbeast kill was just awesome :newevil:

    Though I gotta say this game does have some balancing issues. Some of the spells are just absurdly powerful, but comes with quite low prices (Fire rain etc). Also being apprentice of blacksmith means a shower of gold, and now I've showered Daron with thousands of donations and bought literally all the spell scrolls people offer.

    Nways its just awesome gamez. :cool::cool:
  2. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    Yeah, I'm a fan of Gothic 1 and 2. You should also try Risen if you haven't yet. I bought it on GoG.com last week and I'm about halfway through, and it's really good.
  3. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    I look forward to playing these games one day...I know I'm slow on the up-take, but great games can wait, while shitty games need to be played quickly after their release date, a bit like fast food.
  4. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    while I agree with G2 is great game, I think some aspect of Gothic2 was dumbdowned from G1.
    especially dungeon: there is only one dungeon(final stage). other "dungeons" are just small caves.
    and not many puzzles in the game.
    too bad main quest is still linear.
    doesn't mean I prefer 1 over 2 but I can't recall what is improved from 1.

    well, at least sub quests are enhanced: after chapter1, there are almost no subquest in G1.

    but with NotR, things are different.
    The quest of NotR is really amazing.
    it's first non-linear quest created by PN.
    and it's well merged with main game.
    actually, after NotR game itself doesn't have much things to do.
    or game itself is quite fun untill chapter3.(maybe because I kill almost every enemy at mine colony at chapter 2)
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  5. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    They deserve to have a proper amount of time devoted to them, so don't try to play them on the quick.
  6. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    May 27, 2004
    It's too bad Gothic 3 had so many issues and more or less killed interest for the series.
  7. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I don't think it's because G3 is actually have many issue but because
    G3 is far different from G1,2.

    as a genre G1,2 is actually, linear RPG while G3 is non-linear openworld RPG.
    and for plot, G1,2's plots are closed plot.

    especially G1, what faction you choosed actually doesn't matter.
    whatever you choose,
    you should help sect camp's plan, try newcamps plan and finally you have to betray newcamp and try Xardas' plan

    G2 is little bit different but that's just for small subquests. main plot is still fixed.

    but for G3, there is no fixed plot.

    lots peoeple easiliy says non;-linear is better but actually, most people prefer linear game. because linear plot is far better method to make story or character more attractive. Risen 1 is also a linear RPG.

    and G1,2 shares same place: mine colony. but G3's background is far different from Khorinis.

    and if G1,2 is about human VS moneter, G3 is about human VS god or human VS human.
  8. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    Much of what you say about Gothic 3 is true, and yet it doesn't matter to me at all because I find the game's world to be boring and repetitive. What I remember most distinctly is exploring and finding a cave, and then another cave, and then another cave, and all of them were more-or-less the same. Making the game's world large and open made it bland.
  9. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    G3 is surely not a dungeon RPG, doesn't it? :wiggle:
    well, I agree with caves are not interesting.
    big problem is, loots are randomly generated.
    so there aren't much fun of looting in G3.
    but caves of G2 are also boring.
    only difference between G2 and 3 is looting I guess.

    but as a quest RPG, it's quite interesting since the plot is not fixed,
    and methods to solve the quests are also not fixed.
  10. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
  11. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    got damm forsaken god...
    it's a real trash.
    do not buy it.
  12. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    It's actually Gothic 2, Gothic 3, and the infamous Gothic 3:Forsaken Gods. Gothic 1 is not included in the sale, unfortunately.

    Are the Divinity games good? I've never heard much about them.
  13. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I didn't played much of Divine divinity but it looks good.
    quest of using healing crystal is quite awesome.
    and I beat the Divinity 2 and it's quite good.
    combat is little bit strange but I think Larian has good sense of humor.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  14. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    I'm almost done with a G2-NotR playthrough as a magician. It's hard to imagine what more you could ask for from game, really. I love how G2 is integrated with the G1 story, too. Very nice.

    Magic is quite refreshing in Gothic. "Allies" are not immune to your spells, so you can't just cast a huge fire spell in a melee and only kill your enemies. Summoned creatures also attack anyone they see, be it friend of foe. They'll even attack each other if you summon more than one kind of critter. Such a positive difference from say, Neverwinter Nights.

    The only bad part about playing as a magician is that the runes you get from Beliar are crap. Disappointing.

    I'll have to try a paladin some time.
  15. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    Feb 22, 2014
    Absolutely. Additionally it's very hard to distinguish elements of the add-on from the main game, because it also integrates so well with it.

    Seriously, Gothic II is one of my all-time favorites.

    As you know I share your opinion about Gothic 3. This game didn't even try, it was so bad. Not only did it do different than its predecessors, it did worse. It lacked heart, soul and brain. Open bland world indeed.
  16. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Actually, as a RPG, G3 has better soul and heart of RPG.
    G1,2 is more like JRPG, which impose player to follow story line.
    and story line spoils quests because while story is linear feature, quest is non-linear feature.
    of course, Gothic is different from JRPGs for many aspects.
    but as a quest RPG, it's not much better than JRPG.
    G3 is different. it doesn't impose player to follow story line, but let player to find clues
    which is real core of quest RPG.
    but as a Gothic, it's far different from it's predecessors.
    but that doesn't make G3 is bad
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  17. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    Feb 22, 2014
    With heart and soul I meant that G3 didn't manage to generate the atmosphere the first two games provided.

    Now of course 'atmosphere' in itself is a very versatile and subjective term. I'll try to elaborate what I mean:

    You had freedom of exploration and needed to find clues yourself. I liked that. It gave me the illusion of the game becoming better over time, because if I'd only continue the main quest, the story would deepen and explanations follow. Unfortunately this wasn't true. Not only was finding Xardas a miserable time-sink without any immersive elements (not only because the conflict between the kingdom and the orcs was marginalized with economy-boss-like orc chieftains, who spoke the human language (?) and negotiated with them, despite having been portrayed entirely different in the first two games), the following quests were also dull and lacked interesting ideas, explanations and immersion (find the 5 artifacts of Adanos, kill some influential people for either Xardas, Innos [you deal with the gods directly in this game, I mean what the fuck? This game screamed of 'I'm the third game, I'm really epic and uniting! Mofos like the watermages and Thorus have to appear, without any reason! Yay! {I know, they gave reasons, at least for the WM, but they were far-fetched, only to reintroduce known faces}] or Beliar. The main quest is unimaginative and boring, like any given generic modern epic game storyline.).
    They introduced druids and forest-rangers, cause they couldn't have elves (this would've been too shitty, even for PB at the time). The regicide of Rhobar II. with Lee was among the most fucked-up quests in the entire game. So Lee is somewhere in the north and out to kill Rhobar (Alone, btw. his supporters like Lares, Wolf, Bennet and Torlof - which you could take with you at the end of G2 - were of no concern). Why again? Something about the king's wife and noblemen, ah fuck this, too complex for this game. So you travel to Vengard with him, kill the king and Lee says 'Well, now I guess you've got something else to do'. WTF?!
    This was one of the most hyped-up moments of the franchise. And it has less dialogue than a common Buddler in Gothic 1. So bad, so bad.

    Fallout 3 also began with you finding clues about where to find father James. I bet you liked that, too.
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  18. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    No, fo3 is much more like JRPGs than Gothic 1,2.
    actually, it's worse than JRPG
    you don't have to find father of LW because game system already give you walkthrough to what you have to do.
    there is nothing to player to do since whole walkthrough of game is given.
    subquests are completely disconnected mainquest.
    it's not a game but it's program to clicking button to see idiotic story.

    and exploration of G3 is not a imagination.
    it's more closer to older RPGs: do simple work for finding clue.
    sub quests of G3 looks like too simple and boring.
    but actually, it's more complicate than other Gothic's sub quests.
    there aren't much quests about gain trust to betray without any auto journal to indicate you to gain trust.
    G3 did well on that.

    and you don't have to find Xardas if you know about artifacts.
    kill him is just option to whom to choose(Beliar or Innos or youself).
    you don't have to help Lee's avenge. it's just option to gain help to kill Lohbar.
    everything except main goal of game is optional but actually connected with each others.
    that's real struction of quest RPG.
    actually, NotR did good job on that, while mainstream of G2 itself didn't.

    the world or story is boring is just your opinion.
    for me, it's more impressive than G1,2's which is actually Xardas' story, not mine.
    and that's just my opinion.

    of course, caves are not good compare to G1... but, better than G2's smaller caves.
  19. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    Feb 22, 2014
    Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And Gothic 3 is actually a free game in what you can do what you want. And this is what I criticize. Because being able to do anything leaves us with bland and boring world and quest design. You like G3's philosophy for abandoning the linear concept of the first two games. I on the other hand don't like it if not for this very reason, but for the consequences that emerge with it - a consequenceless and uninteresting game.

    Auto journals and quest markers aside, what is the diary in G3 compared to the carefully written and executed one in G1 and 2? It simply saves dialogue files. Lame.

    Btw how do you know about what to do with the artifacts (if you choose yourself) if not by killing Xardas? So you have to find him.
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  20. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    critics without reason is just opinion.

    The quest doesn't mean each tasks that gave by NPC but whole experience from game.
    for that, G3's quests are not bad.
    of course, some of subquests of G2 is actually funny(like kicking ass of rude noble) but acutally, it's just item fetching, killing monster and bring garbage things. and those are not actually necessary and meaningless since you can earn money without them and reward exp is too low.
    so what I feel is, what G1,2 can provide was just hack and slashing since quests are automatically solved by Xardas.

    Nordma is really boring place, I agree that. but myrtana wasn't bad for quest.
    people like you don't like gaining trust points, but I prefer it than linear quest lines.
    at least, I can avoid what I don't want to do unlike linear quest line.
    and exploration of G3 is actually good as a aspect of quest RPG.
    G1,2's map exploration is just for item fetching and hack and slashing.
    and G3's exploration is for quests to find something important.
    and informations are good enough for reasoning.

    journal of G3 wasn't bad.
    actually better than giving more walkthrough.
    and Risen 1,2 inherite that system.
    it can give better chance to player to reasoning himself than giving more chance by hero's opinion.

    by replaying :lol:
    actually, if you choose Innos, you can beat the game without meeting Xardas.