Death of a Hobby.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by TransgenderVaultDeweller, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. TransgenderVaultDeweller

    TransgenderVaultDeweller "Fallout 4 adds to the lore"

    426
    Aug 14, 2015
    So, I'm in the mood to shed some old school love and shit on the state of the industry now. So, I was thinking about my time playing planescape torment, from beginning to end. And *SPOILERS AHEAD* The fortress of regret was really a huge climax and place of revelation, The ambiance, the soundtrack, the phenomenal game design and the pacing added to a final show down with the transcended one. Here, I'll link it here. The voice acting in the game is fucking great and has some well known voice actors and actresses, Such as Jinnefier hale, Tony Jay and Keith David.

    (Snippit of Fortress of regret with the transcended One confrontation.)




    Everything about it is bone chilling and in a good way, So many ways to solve the ending and it doesn't treat you like an idiot. Furthermore, It opens the game to new runs with different builds that allow you to see and feel things differently. Great stuff. However, i didn't just make this thread to praise torment's phenomenally well built story. I also made it to talk about the modern games industry and how far away we were from the late 1999s and the time of good games. While, great and amazing games were and still do come. Its too far inbetween and aren't as big as lets say call of duty. Now a days, it isn't about the art rather then it is about nickle and dimeing the consumer with horrid business practice like the day one DLC Ashe To Ashes. A mass effect 3 dlc that pretty much was ripped straight from the disk and placed behind a paywall that can only be entirely enjoyed if you spend more money ontop of the 60$ you already paid for. Nevermind just that. Some games just are total shit to begin with and are made my lazy insipid designers that ruin games but for some reason amassed the DUMBEST fan base in the series that alienated another fanbase. *cough*. Or just shove real life agendas down our throat with the most cringe worthy things that has the subtly of a sledge hammer meeting a wall. The characters have no depth and are meaningless behind seeming arbitary things that don't even really define the character so much as their actions and words. Or they do have something to define that character but it is lacking in one department because they choose to focus on another aspect.






    I guess, What i'm trying to say is, How are you guys handling the fact such masterpieces aren't being made as they were years ago? What will you do when the video games industry crashes? Also, how does it feel to know younger generations are going to grow up and associate games with just grindy wacky crazy paywalls with micro-transactions everywhere?
     
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  2. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    There are lots of untouched games and 'underrated gems' lying around. Nothing to worry about.
     
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  3. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    908
    Feb 4, 2016
    1. Okay I guess. I mean there are are still games I genuinely like and play but the franchises that I cared deeply about are nothing more but a casualised horse shit. I would love to play some of them but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

    2. I will celebrate mostly and be sorry for the studios and producers that did not deserve it such as Obsidian.

    3. Sad, really fucking sad. I have got younger brother and seeing the games and their quality I can only feel sorry for him. The era of one time paying and getting a good game is over. Now pay 30$ for the base game +60$ for dlc and he will find it completely normal...

    Let the game crash happen, please.
     
  4. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    Rebuilt or at least spend some time analyzing video games objectively. Right now video game design and criticism is too entwine marketing.

    Just asking but what should happen for you to consider that the video game industry has crashed?
     
  5. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    908
    Feb 4, 2016
    People boycotting all the greedy companies, EA and other selling franchises to people that know how to use them. I am mostly hopping that all the companies like EA or Activision will just go bankrupt for all the shitty games and greedy approach.

    I don't have a huge wish, I just want to see more of the games that I enjoyed. However with the way things are I cannot think of any other solution
     
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  6. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    Basically a significant change in the status quo. However as long as EA has Madden, that isn't going to happen.
     
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  7. TransgenderVaultDeweller

    TransgenderVaultDeweller "Fallout 4 adds to the lore"

    426
    Aug 14, 2015

    Games that already exist? Or the small nitch that is already being produced? if so, its not enough really to upset the balance of "Loot,Shoot,Return" Games being produce. Skyrim is still considered an "inspiration" to RPG makers out there.


    The youtube video game channles are saturated and induated with clickbait corporate whores who make videos of stupid shit none really gives a fuck about. "Top three secrets you might have not notice" Or "Three things you didn't know about this group!" Just stupid Garbage.
     
  8. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    Games are being made for money nowadays. It's all about "streamlining" and "accessibility" which means making them dumb enough for the average joe to play them *Skyrim*.
    You have to rely on smaller/indie studios for a good game.
     
  9. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    557
    Jan 28, 2013
    Yeah, I agree with 0wing, still some great games available.
     
  10. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    True. However it is as if paintings jumped to Post-modernism before reaching the Renaissance. What games are accepted as the pillars of their genre? What games are measuring stick of quality? Without these, standards are at constant threat of decay. Without these, standards can only go up or down and they aren't going up.

    This is an image that I posted about why AAA video game look so much alike. This was presented by someone who defended EA's business model.
    View attachment 4632

    Long story short, trying something new cost more time and money because they can't use recycled assets and they have think about how to implement it. Video game are made in tight schedule because investors pour in lots of money and they think hiring more people would get rid of any bottleneck.

    Also, I'm so tired of reviewers saying that they will give the game some slack because everything else released this month or year was worse. Why do people feel the need to play every new game that comes out? I understand why reviewers are like this. It is because they have play a lot of games in a short period of time, every shitty title. Imagine if book reviewers just skim the novels or gourmands just shallow their food. What is worse is they do because the majority of it terrible.

    What is better? Playing a few games thoroughly? Or playing a lot of games quickly? People need to value their time and their money more.
     
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  11. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    But casuals need a game where they can turn off their brain. They like games littered with (the illusion of) choice and grey "dilemmas", games that suck them into their world not through actual storytelling but "environmental" storytelling. They need fast paced 'shoot/stab this' combat rather than tactical combat with consequences. And they outnumber people like us, so who are the companies going to cater to?
    Even if a crash happens, what then? Will all of the CoD fans suddenly start playing indie roguelike games? After a crash new companies will pop up and grow, becoming the new EA or Zenimax- it won't change.

    Btw if you made that attachment good job.
     
  12. NotAcasul

    NotAcasul meanie

    327
    Mar 17, 2016
    That's a rather pessimistic way of looking at things.

    What about Shadowrun Returns? http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/

    Divinity: Original Sin 2? http://store.steampowered.com/app/435150/?snr=1_237_237__201_7

    The video game industry is doing fine. There's so much money being put into it, that it can't crash. People love videogames and will continue to love them for a long time.

    I mean, what exactly counts as the younger generation? People that are younger than you? Babies being born right now? Trust me, older people have been complaining about the younger generation since Mesopotamian times, practically. It'll be okay.
     
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I find this a very difficult subject to respond on as it is one of the reasons why I am so down: the feeling that gaming barely any longer entices me and has sort of passed me by.
    I used to be a passionate gamer, or at least I think I was. Other than gameplay I enjoyed of various titles, I also deeply got into the worlds that some of these games depicted. (my passion for Fallout's world for example: which made me want to make a worthy addition to it)

    So many games that influenced my imagination, wanting me to make new stories in the worlds depicted in them and become a game designer myself. (I do realize now that one should strive to create new things instead of just repeating the old over and over again as that has led to some of the mess we are in, plus it is very unlikely that even if someone manages to get into the game industry that he or she gets to work on titles like Mario, Sonic, Wolfenstein, and so on on a commercial basis. Only a rare few get that opportunity.)

    When I was young(er) the gaming world seemed so exciting and full of undiscovered treasures. Of course I was also a lot easier to impress in an era in which the Commodore 64, Amiga, NES, and later on the Megadrive and the SNES were the biggest gaming platforms). Only later on I found out that a lot of games I though were very awesome were quite average and bad even for the time, and that I was unjustly ignoring other games that appealed to gamers who enjoy more fulfilling experiences.

    I was already PC gaming in the time that the new genres such as FPS and RTS were establishing themselves, able to enjoy the innovation and new concepts these games brought. Games like the original Unreal and Half Life 1 were such a experience changing event compared to Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Games could actually tell stories like in a movie or a comic book, or provide an almost continuous world that did not include levels.
    (I sadly ignored System Shock 1 but did play System Shock 2 and liked that, but then ignored Deus Ex when it was first released, only to play it later on budget re release and discovering the mistake I made)

    Starcraft and its expansion Brood Wars were cool but they were nothing compared to when I played Homeworld and Homeworld Cataclysm, awesome 3DS RTS space opera! (sadly Homeworld 2 suffered the same way other franchises would eventually do, I found the story average and the gameplay not fun)

    But then titles like Halo appeared. At first I did not see the harm of it as there were still plenty of PC first games like Star Wars Jedi Knight Outcast, Star Trek Elite Force, and Star Trek Bridge Commander. (this was at a time that Star Wars was still good despite The Phantom Menace, and Star Trek was still popular and decent), but as time passed by more and more titles started to become cross platform. (I never understood why Deus Ex Invisible War was so loathed until I played it myself and discovered how much of the gameplay had been reduced to fit on the original Xbox)
    And this continue on and on.

    During all of this I did discover older games that I also enjoyed but at some point I just bought old games for the sake of collecting and no longer to play them, and when I did play some of them I discovered I was not enjoying them as much any more. (FPS and RTS games for example quickly age, adventures in general hold up better followed by some RPGs)

    Also during this my budget in gaming was rather limited due to financial problems at home so I could not fully follow the gaming scene until a few years later. (highlights during these years were the awesome Metroid Prime 1 and 2, and Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission)

    When I finally had a new PC again I played such games as Half Life 2 and Doom 3 (which I still rather like), and later on FEAR1 which I did not find that interesting).
    But not long after almost all games had become completely cross platform and I started to notice this also in the FPS genre. A lot of them were suddenly WW2 or Modern War oriented, two weapons limit, auto health, and focus on multiplayer, the single player games were reduced in scale and gameplay.

    One of the last few years IMO was 2007 during which Half Life 2 Episode 2 and Metroid Prime 3 Corruption were released. After that things start to become a forgettable blur.
    I remember playing and enjoying Wolfenstein 2009 which I liked for its Indiana Jones style adventure story but which did suffer in gameplay, especially compared to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.
    Fallout 3 which I despite all misgivings decided to play, because hey it is a new Fallout game even though I still mourned the cancellation of Van Buren and the disgusting aftertaste of FOBOS. (well I reviewed a lot of the DLC here so you people know what I think of Fallout 3)

    When Fallout New Vegas was announced it filled me with excitement again even though I knew it would run on the same engine as Fallout 3. But Obsidian fixed so much of the Fallout 3 flaws and added such an exciting world for me to explore, characters to meet, quests to carry out.
    The ending felt a little disappointing on the vanilla game (especially compared to what I read in the Van Buren documentation), but the DLCs that later came out; Dead Money, Honest Hearts, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road (which I still think should have been the true ending of FNV, taking place after Fallout New Vegas and altering the outcome of your decisions in the Mojave). I could not wait all those months after all those DLCs were announced, it felt good to be a gamer again.

    And then... well there were some real life matter that required my attention but I do remember that I was largely disappointed in general.
    Deus Ex Human Revolution was a rare gem during that time but it did not feel completely like the Deus Ex I experienced in the first game, especially story wise.

    I don't recall when but at some point I bought an Xbox 360 in order to play the Halo games (Hallo Anniversary Edition, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo ODST, Halo Reach, Halo Wars, and Halo 4). They were okay I guess but I never really became a Halo lore fan, and after how ridiculous the universe was made in the books and the comics, and the fandom that considered the Halo series the epitome of quality gaming I was pretty sick of it)

    I also got a PS3 in order to play the Resistance games, these were okay but the series was never that spectacular. The first game probably got a lot of praise because it was the first FPS on the PS3 when it came out but it wasn't that good despite the nice alternative history theme. R2 was in many ways a Halo clone. And whole R3 restored some of the better elements of R1 that were removed in R2, I found it a rather pointless title as it did not give any answer on the bigger questions that had been set up during the series, feeling more like a filler than the conclusion to the series that it was revealed to be. Heck the enemy apparently got defeated during the epilogue title screen and humanity despite the billions of dead and transformed people manage to recuperate and rebuild the United States again.
    The best game of that series is still Resistance Retribution.


    Sorry I probably go way of track with this but I just wanted to clarify why gaming has meant so much to me. It was one of the few sources of solace I had during some very dark and depressing times. Now I feel intensely sad again but find it does not give me a feeling of happiness again.

    Many of the franchises I enjoyed have either ended or have so declined in quality that I have absolutely no interest in them any more as they are now designed for a whole different orientation group.
    And there have barely been any new titles that really caught my attention for the same reason, a lot of them are not designed for a gamer such as me. I am not a Multiplayer fan nor do I care about MMOs.

    I know there are still decent games being developed and released but as I have a limited budget at the moment and sometimes find it very difficult these days to focus on a single subject I have not been able to get into games that I would otherwise probably have enjoyed for hours or even days. (I really need to play Dust: An Elysian Tale more)
    I tend to go back to the tried and comfortable games when I am not wasting my time pointlessly behind the internet but eventually even my favorite games tend to become boring because I play them so often over again.


    What would I do if there was another video game crash like in the 1980s? Probably rejoice as I would not mind seeing a lot of the publishers that have made it so that gaming must focus on the mainstream audience, and have butchered so many classic IPs because they are so god damn scared that a new franchise or game that appeals to specific gamers doesn't sell enough to finance the next floor on their diamond and gold towers, or pays the mortgage on their private island, go broke. And that all the Hollywood studios style managers who don't give a shit about gaming, let alone understand gaming, are forced to find themselves a new tit to suck from.

    And then follow the complaints and whining about a lot of mainstream gamers who post online and make videos on how suddenly no longer lots of titles are made for their finicky tastes any more. (where is my next triple A title? As a specific demographic gamer I need to be catered to by the studios. I need my next MP shooter and rebooted/reinvented classic franchise title)

    But probably more realistically I would continue to seek something that gives me fulfillment and joy. When this damn depression is over I really would like to accomplish creative results of my own.


    Current day gamers who have never experienced titles that did not come with paywalls and micro-transactions? A shame really that they will probably never know a time in which most of the releases were full and complete experiences on their own that did require additional purchases and expansion packs that offered much more than most DLCs do these days.
     
  14. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    There are plenty of games that don't require much thinking that are pretty good like Super Mario 64. The problem is games that look complicated but has little to no depth. Let's compare the LoZ:OoT to Skyrim. OoT is a much simpler game than Skyrim. The only character customization is the player name. This is because OoT isn't an RPG. However look at the puzzles in Skyrim and compare it to OoT. Combat in both games are easy but which one requires you to pay attention?

    This is one of my biggest beefs with Bioshock 1. The game has garner a lot of praise due to this "moral dilemma" except the game does so much to get you pick the good option. Look at this stupid paper on Bioshock 1.

    Besides the whole moral issue, the game does a poor job incentivizing the evil choice. Adam isn't really that necessary and you have no idea how much Adam you will get from the process. You only know that harvesting gets more Adam than rescuing. You don't even have a vague idea like "You'll only half the Adam.". Also, the first person that you meet that wasn't trying to kill you tells you not to do the evil thing, gives you a non-evil alternative, and killed the last person who tried to do that evil thing. There is also the whole bias to the status quo and you get better rewards for rescuing them in long run. People should stop patting themselves in the back for not killing fictional little girls.

    First, very few games can compete with CoD. Many companies died off trying to make a CoD killer, a WoW killer, or a DotA clone. People need to know how to carve a niche. From what I understand, CoD fans only buy the latest CoD to play with their friends online. Why couldn't they just stick to one game like CS: Go instead of paying $60.00 every year for a new game and $60.00 to pay to connect their console the Internet service that they already paid for?

    It was from a website about game art design and was used to defend EA business practice. The website is gone now.

    Too big to fall. Also, I don't think that is going to happen but I want it to happen.
     
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  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I fear this won't happen, just as how the movie industry never colapsed, despite of the obvious shit they release over the years. It's typical Holywood-Bullshit has become kinda common expression, hasn't it? And yet, products like Transformers and Terminator 5 continue to sell to the masses and even making money. And Terminator is a perfect example, as objectively it can't hold a candle to Terminator 1 and 2 which are considered classics.

    The gaming industry, to say it that way, has become to large for it's own good in that respect. It simply won't go down. However, I am sure that we will see changes. What kind of changes? Or if they will be positive or negative? Who knows! I hope things will get better when gaming has more matured as artform I mean. Right now, we still are not exploiting enough in gaming with the pecuilar characteristics of the medium in mind. For example, where are all the highly controversial topics in gaming? Why isn't racism, sexism, viollence and such really explored as how we see it with books and movies sometimes? And I don't mean this hamfisted approach where one bad mofo calls another one a nigger. Why not for example, a first person game, where you play a slave right before the civil war. You experience slavery, the live and mindset in the south, someone helps you to escape and you end up fighting for the north just to experience the racism in the Union army. I know that with kick starter and steam you have a lot of projects that aim to explore more complicated subjects. But those usually don't make it into the mainstream of gaming, where as with movies for example you definetly have sometimes more complex topics geting into Holywood blockbusters. I mean why can't we have some of those kind of games, with block-buster budgeds behind it? Just as how it happend with Planescape Torment, Fallout and similar titles.

    It seems to me that gaming hasn't matured yet. Or, to be more precise, it seems that high profile game development has taken a huge step back. The fact that those games play more like interactive movies doesn't help either.

    I think to remember, that in Bioschock 1 you would actually not lose anything by rescuing the little Sisters, because if you rescued all of them - which you should anyway, they will provide you with some extra goodies, which gives you the same amount of Adam as like when you kill them.

    Welcome to the creative industry - this pretty much applies to any design field today.

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  16. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    Despite the video game industry's attempt to emulate Hollywood, movies are a completely different beast. Watching a movie takes little time, money, and effort; and everybody has more or less the same experience. Most of video games are expected to be movies too yet video games have a significantly smaller budget than movies. The funny thing is movie critics are paradoxically less influential to the success of the product and more respected at the same time.

    Look at IGN's review of Uncharted 4.

    It has 4,778 Likes and 10,621 Dislikes that is 69% dislikes. The reason? It got 9/10. Not because it was too high but because it was too low.

    That is what happens when data mining and play-testing gets the lowest common denominator because the thing that we mostly have in common being stupid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  17. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Pretty much first.
    And the general rule about a really standing out game once a decade is still works.
    The Witcher 3 is confirmed taking inspirastion from Skyrim. (how not to make games, I mean)
    Isn't sony titles being near perfect pretty much became a forced meme? I played Uncharted 4, it's boring as fuck, to say at least. (I mean, the least problem with U4)
     
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  18. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    Movies gradually became what they are today over time, video games just boomed.
    They can't keep up with the speed that hardware is developing. You have companies like EA trying to make a quick buck by bumping up the graphics every year, and companies like Bethesda with their 15 yo engine that makes for near unplayable games.
     
  19. CaptJ

    CaptJ The Rival of Roquefort Hall

    587
    Jan 19, 2016
    The reasoning is that CoD got score higher than 9/10 so 9/10 was too low for them.

    BTW: I posted this chart in a different thread.
    Should I just like link the attachment or upload it again?
     
  20. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    And yet people still believe Skyrim is superior.
    (Not going to link it, I'd rather not spread the stupidity)

    Stupid people are the reason the gaming industry is what it is today, not the publishers. So long as stupid people play games, publishers will appeal to them and feed off of them.
     
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