Does anyone else realize how stupid Arthur Maxson being sent East Coast is?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Lidku, May 10, 2020.

  1. Lidku

    Lidku Wasteland Sniper

    90
    Sep 4, 2019
    Like why would the main Brotherhood (at the time before Lyons expedition) send the descendant of the most lauded founder of the organization dating back all the way to the aftermath of the Great War with some contingent all the way on the other side of the country? What basis would this have?

    Its especially damning since there are no other Maxsons (because apparently the Maxson dynasty never bothered to have multiple children despite being part of one of the only societies in the Wasteland with the readible privilege to do so, even being at the top of the hierarchy of said society nonetheless) in the first place, the main council of the BoS would never greenlight such an action. Its almost as if Bethesda only strung this Maxson because they probably already had their horrific Fallout 4 plot already on the drawing board and needed an excuse for spawning in this particular Maxson. (I only say this because they already had their stupid Blade-Runner rip planned in lieu of the "Replicated Man" quest in rivet city).
     
  2. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android A Smooth-Skin

    653
    Jun 7, 2015
    I suppose you could justify it by saying that conniving elders wanted to get rid of the last of the Maxsons so that they could wield more power, but of course Bethesda just didn't put that much thought into it.
     
  3. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Because Bethesda wanted to make their games in the East Coast, but that meant having to come up with new things because the first two games as far as i'm aware didn't told much about the East Coast, if anything at all. So that meant contrived writing to get a lot of things that were in the West Coast to the East Coast, regardless if it made sense or not.
     
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  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    The entire trans-continental voyage was stupid. One of the things I like about Fallout as a setting is that it dials back the scale of the world. California and Utah might as well be other countries. Having groups and individuals travel freely across the entire continental United States soils that somewhat, and makes groups like the Legion, NCR or the Master's Unity feel small-scale and silly by comparison.

    If they absolutely *had* to shove the BoS into 3, I think the 76 method of Maxson attempting to contact friends within the US Army after the bombs dropped is probably the least terrible way of going about it. What sort of state a east-coast grown BoS would be like by the year 2277 is another matter entirely, though.
     
  5. Eshanas

    Eshanas A Smooth-Skin

    680
    Jul 6, 2016
    There's just little way to justify the BoS being on the East Coast at the present time. They were dying. They were small. They were fighting a losing war against the NCR. Maxson might had been sent out to somewhere, yes, but somewhere is like, Oregon, Montana, Utah.

    And it's like not we can justify, or shove in Tactics, either. Most people hate or dislike Tactcs and even then - what, the BoS sends their leader to be to a bunch of outcasts, and then they jump to the East Coast? That's not even stretching it anymore, it's just idiotic. But the whole of the BoS in 3, 4, 76, and even NV is. NV even has us acknowledging they're fucking done for but Mcnamara and Elijah still want to fight and for some reason haven't been shot in the back yet. And yes, I know about that Paladin/Knight usurper guy.

    The BoS on the East Coast makes little sense. If there's a MwBoS, why didn't he stay there or was taken hostage? If there isn't a big MwBoS, then plowing across the country seems even more impossible because no one paved the way. And then there's stuff like 'the battle of the Pitt' because yes the BOS is going INTO the raider's nest for whatever fucking reason, doing nothing of note, leaving a man behind, and kept on going.

    Ugh. It's w/e. The EcBoS should had just been the damn US Army still struggling after all this time or something.
     
  6. Lidku

    Lidku Wasteland Sniper

    90
    Sep 4, 2019
    Hmmm reading through your post and AlphaPromethean's post makes me find a few other gripes I have that were in my mind:

    Exactly! Since Bethesda in a way made Fallout Tactics basically cannon with them confirming East Coast Brotherhood was sent to contact them (but somehow failed supposedly), lets look at the precedent for long scale Wasteland travel for how the MwBoS got far: Airships. Sure in Fallout 4 Bethesda miraculously remembers this bit, but in Fallout 3 its utterly stupid how they got across from California ALL the way to DC via foot alone. In Tactics that BoS utilized LITERAL AIRSHIPS, but only ever made it to the center of the country. How the hell are heavily Powered Armored men and women going to hope to make it all the way on DC being that slow with no other transportation?

    Another gripe is how they even got the Pentagon as their fucking HQ of all things. I'll give Bethesda one lil' bone, the Enclave being active in DC makes total primary sense since they ARE the remnants of the US government. It would make sense for them to relocate from an in-universe standpoint to the basic heartland of America. But the fact that the BoS of all things secured the Pentagon first (renamed the Citadel) especially with Liberty Prime in the facility is so fucking dumb.

    The end of Fallout 2 takes place in the year of 2242, AMPLE time for Enclave to secure the Pentagon of all things- the symbolic Intelligence and Miltec command centre of pre-war US. 13 years have passed, but in 2255 Owyn's chapter miraculously gains control of the Pentagon of all things- even access to, again as I've said before, Liberty Prime (i.e machine that the Enclave would undoubtedly want to secure at all costs. Why within the 13 years after the Rig blowing up and them retreating to the East Coast have they never tried to recover it, WTF). Out of the two factions making a debut in the Capital Wasteland, the Enclave make the most sense than the BoS. Accounting for time, their absolute presence should've been UNMATCHED and we know they have been active in the region for a time from the eyebots they have deployed... so again, its retarded that there was no Enclave presence in the Pentagon before the arrival of the BoS in the Capital Wasteland.

    Another thing about Bethesda is that they totally half-baked acknowledged Tactics altogether. Tactics took place in 2197 and ends in 2198. By the time Owyn even makes it to DC, 57 years have already passed. They probably wouldn't even know about the Maxsons in particular anymore since they've been so cut off (even Caesar confirms this from dialogue, but note that the Midwest Chapter readily recruits Wastelanders and Tribals, so the society at large would know the main facets of the Brotherhood, but some inklings wouldn't know every detail- how many non-popular presidents can you name?), but I'd assume the Midwest Brotherhood would be a VERY strong faction in the Mid-West with a large presence since they recruit and have very superior technology which they maintain. How the hell is it possible for Lyons to not find them, wut?

    In all honestly, what was even the whole point of the Lyon dynasty arc? Because in the end Bethesda just killed it off in place for Arthur who's basically the West Coast mentality shoved into the East Coast. They aren't confident in their style of the BoS at all, so maybe thats why they went this lazy route with Maxson.. or maybe since Maxson EXPLICITLY was in 3 (and we know they planned the plot of 4 somewhat in advance) it was always their plan to have Maxson take the helm after Sarah and Owyn's asinine deaths. They- like I said before- needed an excuse to have the BoS fully migrate to the East Coast... they never wanted their own take of it. (not to say its even good or serviceable, just pointing out they don't have originality)

    Thats exactly what I'm saying! Bethesda is too scared to think of their own unique factions and they finally do, there GARBAGE! Minutemen was a trash faction, the Institute and Railroad combined were idotic Blade-Runner factions that were lukewarm in presentation and substance, then we AGAIN have the BoS making another appearance- this time acting exactly like the West Coast BoS because Bethesda wasn't confident in their own take and can't be original. Why the hell is Maxson even making an appearance in Boston? Why would he up and leave the major holding the BoS has- the fucking PENTAGON? Not only that but leave a region where CLEAN water is innumerable everywhere? WTF!? How can a company that has built up the lore of The Elder Scrolls series alone be this bad at writing? Did they fire some key story personnel or something?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    To be fair, I think ignoring Tactics' retarded Midwestern empire was actually a good decision. In general, I mean. Even Caesar's mention of the Brotherhood "out east" could literally just be a reference to Van Buren's remote chapter of the Brotherhood that was rooted in east Arizona. Ironically enough named the Maxson Bunker.

    The Brotherhood never struck me as a faction with massive amounts of disposabal manpower. Whilst deploying squadrons eastward is actually within their ideology, I could only see it as justifiable if they were aware of specific dangerous technology that would warrant that. As it stands both in the context of Tactics and Fallout 3, the Brotherhood just sent massive amounts of men that they got from somewhere on a completely blind expedition east to basically see what's up, or to chase down Super-Mutants that were running away. As the actions of a populous and well-driven empire/nation, that would make sense. For a reclusive order of techno-monks living in scattered bunkers across California, not particularly.
     
  8. Lidku

    Lidku Wasteland Sniper

    90
    Sep 4, 2019
    This is where there is was steep creative divide in how the MwBoS and EBoS were handled in their justification for migration. The Tactics branch explicitly left because they outright disagreed with the policies of the Council of the time stance on recruiting outsiders to bolster their numbers. They realized that the BoS was dying, but the other opposite party line of spectrum thought it was heresy to how the BoS ran to recruit and sully the pure line of the Brotherhood- thus starting the prologue of how Tactics begins with atleast some logic on why they were "soft-banished" on an errand hunt of the remnants of Master's Army. The Midwest Chapter and its formation as an established power ("Empire" as you put it) isn't retarded at all, its a representation of the BoS being actually smart to grow their influence and overall weight to being a staying one at that because now its recruiting. Its a direct dichotomous view on how the Western BoS fared because while they had the better tech, they failed in war from the sheer size of the NCR altogether. Remember- the Tactics Brotherhood was sent out as a punishment to get rid of them. Their nation building thereafter their Airships being crashed was all on them, they enacted the vision they wanted when it was thought they were going to be set for failure.

    It doesn't even make sense for Bethesda to retcon that tidbit since they did that same exact thing later in Fallout 4. They probably only ever did that because they wanted the East Coast BoS alone to be the height of the faction, only having the West Coast one be a footpad and Midwest being left dry despite all the developments the Midwest BoS made well at the end of Tactics and beyond.

    Owyns Chapter (Bethesda's own spin that they readily severed out later on) is given no adequate explanation or background on why they are sent to DC beside "recover" technology. Like you said before there is no adequate way they could justify such a trip with only foot travel- not even airships. It'll ONLY be if it was EXTREMELY dangerous technology rumored in the East Coast, but none of that was a focal point. They were just sent out at random, with Arthur Maxson (the most prestigious BoS member) to go with this ragtag group to boot. Even when they get to the East Coast, how likely is it for them to make a backpeddle back East? The reigning council at the time would never greenlight this procurement run because the time needed wouldn't warrant to do so. Its gobbily gook.
     
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  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Perhaps I'm too harsh on the Midwest BoS, but I find the idea of the Brotherhood having a sector turning into an extremely powerful multi-state spanning empire/nation to be rather boring. To be honest, I'd even be okay with it if we got a game set in the Midwest in the 23rd century that showed how such an ideologically transient faction became balkanized, perhaps they've fragmented into pockets of well-armed mercenaries and millitias or something.

    It's just every time I look at a fan map and I see this massive consolidated blob over the midwest belonging to the BoS, it makes me sigh.
     
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