Falklands

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Yoshi525, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    And now you see how blood thirsty the Argentinians are.

    The Falkland South-American Empire of Los Falklands is a Friendly and peaceful Nation......ever since we kicked Spain out of South-America. But to have Argentina call for our destruction as well as the destruction of our friends and allies just shows you how deep their villainy runs.

    While it is true FSAELF never truly considered Argentina to be a REAL COUNTRY and never recognized their INDEPENDENCE and have them listed as a ROUGE-PROVINCE we would gladly welcome that back in to their rightful place as a overseas protectorate of the Falkland South-American Empire of Los Falklands.

    But if they continue to use such vile and hateful talk against us and our Allies then I say we have no further choice but to give them the proper Boot up the Back Side all over again.

    But this time............IT'S PERSONAL!
     
  2. Muff

    Muff Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    861
    May 5, 2006
    Full Disclosure, I am English.

    To be honest most people in the UK don't really know enough or care about some islands the other end of the world but a fair number of idiotic people (EDL) froth at the mouth when it comes to anything foreign that doesn't sit well with there idiotic idea that we are still a untouchable empire, they are about the only ones I hear talk about the Falklands issue at any length and even then it's rare, but it is nice to see the feelings and opinions of Argentinians on this subject.

    To me they are a few small islands the other end of the world that I have never been to, have little of interest apart from a few sheep. So in my mind you can have them, I don't want to see any more blood shed by anyone over them enough was lost in 82 by both sides.
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    thats something I can agree with. I mean yeah. They should allow them to have the Falklands. But I doubt this is going to happen. Not from a realistic point of view.

    The reason for me though? The Falklands are much closer to Argentine then Britain. And I can see the reason here which Gonzales and others named that those Falklandians (lets call it that) are using Argentine for their needs. So for all I case? Give them that rock! Instead of shedding more blood for it.

    So much to that :P
     
  4. Iabimyshkin

    Iabimyshkin First time out of the vault

    64
    Dec 20, 2010

    You don't care, fair enough. But on those islands live a community of people who wish to remain British and ask Britain to protect them. It is not a matter of just giving them back their rock. These rocks are inhabited by a peaceful community of human beings who just want to live their lives. Many of them still have bad memories of the traumatic invasion of 1982. These people were subjected to a terrifying invasion- a peaceful community forced into the middle of an armed conflict. This was at a time when Britain was ready to come to terms with Argentina over the islands. This was well documented- the British were winding down their naval presence an their claim to the territory. Men, women and children were traumatised. They went from living a quiet, blameless and peaceful life to having to listen to gunfire, shell explosions, helicopters and aircraft. The accounts of the islanders as terror gripped them when they saw a convoy of Argentinian naval forces heading to the islands are chilling. As are the accounts of islanders herded into barns and left for days. Now all bets are off.

    The Falkland islanders DO have the right to self-determination. Quoting the UN charter is an unfeeling act of rationalisation which discounts the human beings living on those lands. This is a community that have lived on that land, toiled on that, worked and lived off that land and died on that land for many generations. They have the right to their choice, freedom and liberty- funnily enough they do not wish to be ruled over by a country which makes them suffer and discounts their feelings. A country that was run by military junta that declared war on them. In any case this rationalisation and quoting charters has little to do with human freedoms and liberties. These islands are not attached to Argentina so it is certainly arguable that it infringes on their territoiral integrity. The peoples that have lived on the land since the 1830s have the right to determine the future of their nation. End of story.

    'They were part of our territory and they were taken away from us.'
    This a line often spouted from Argentina. Completely and utterly forgetting the fact that the Falklands have been British territory since before Argentina even existed as a nation proper.

    No one can possibly see it as moral OR just that the Argentinian government have forced heavy trade embargoes and limitations on the Falkland Islands in order to cut off their food supply. This makes food costs hit the roof and supplies go down, many foodstuffs and vegetables are no longer available to them. This directly hits the islanders quality of life and health. What is justified about that?

    Anything for the government to distract from their fake inflation figures and a failure to take responsibility for its debts . The Argentinian government are a gang of racketeers and swindlers consistently pissing off the international community by not respecting its international obligations. Little wonder that outside Latin America their attempts to drum up support in the US and across the EU for their Falklands complaint falls on deaf and uninterested ears.

    People on the islands complain that people from Argentina often ring them to scream death threats over the phone. Here are a couple of the threats recieved over the phone by the editor of the Falklands paper:

    "Die you decadenct whore"

    "I am coming to the Malvinas so walk softy because I will find you."

    What a way to treat an innocent woman who has absolutely nothing to do with the diplomatic issues between these two nations. Why does she and the other islanders who are threatened deserve this? Death threats, trade embargoes, a campaign of forced isolation and intimidation - this is Argentina's policy 30 years after invading the islands and subjugating these people with force. Yet the Argentinian government and their people continue to act like innocent victims. They declared and lost a war and continue to bully these people- they are not the victims. The victims are the Falklanders, this is crystal clear.

    I weigh up the facts and the information. People from Argentina can only weigh up nationalistic propaganda to decide what is right on this issue. Then they get inflamed and ring a Falklands phone number to abuse these people. One resident told how her little daughter of six answered her mobile phone only to be subjected to vile abuse. Ridiculous, disgraceful, unnecessary.

    In this day and age I think it is rightly accepted that human beings and the will of these human beings is of the upmost importance and clearly takes priority over land. These human beings are more important that the land they live on. It is they who count, not a dubious claim dating back well over a century completely based on nationalistic patriotism and wounded pride. There is far too much talk of rocks and island and not enough talk about human beings. That is THEIR land, they farm on it, live on it, work on it, are born on it and die on it. They will become independent before being ruled over their oppressors.

    Oh, and the government broadcasting an Olympics advert showing an Argentinian athlete doing step ups on a British war memorial.... real classy that. Many an Argentinian veteran of that war would denounce that.

    Argentinians and indifferent Brits should refrain from saying 'give the islands back' because those Island's are not our government's to simply give away. They are not a province of the UK nor do they to want to be a province of Argentina. They area an overseas territory with relationship with UK. The Falkland Islands are effectively a nation of itself, just not an independent one. The British government, unlike the Argentinian, considers what the inhabitants want first rather than considering giving away the land beneath their feet and their homes.
     
  5. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    I can't wait for the response to this one... :look:
     
  6. Tremer

    Tremer It Wandered In From the Wastes

    150
    Apr 5, 2010
    So is our fault that the argument is one sided. And you are mistake when you said " Most people here (me included) posting either against the argentines or just their opinion probably know not enough about the topic", what about Gonzales that are agument with you and the other people.

    Something i dont understand is why you post here if you know about the subject, and this "that's not the feeling I have though. I don't claim that I have read every single post in here, but to me it sounds like the overall tone is "the Brits are wrong! We are right! if you disagree, then you have no clue!"." please if you are neutral as you said you will have not problem reading the discusion. Then maybe you could understand a little of the subject before posting the things you post.

    read the post of Iabimyshkin
     
  7. plaidchuck

    plaidchuck It Wandered In From the Wastes

    108
    May 4, 2012
    Seems to me that argentina has more serious problems than a few islands, since they just pissed off the entire EU with the repsol thing.
     
  8. Tremer

    Tremer It Wandered In From the Wastes

    150
    Apr 5, 2010
    really? and i thought we only pissed off a spanish company, that even the populace of spain don't care. With all the problems of unemployment and expensive education.
     
  9. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Europe cares so much I had to look up what happened.
     
  10. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    For those who don't know about REPSOL (see below) - I'm sure Argentina's move towards a Venezuelan type government will see a flood of foreign investment in their country. :roll: Mind you I'm no expert on this issue, and I'm sure others here are better informed. Others!

    Code:
    New York –  Spanish energy major Repsol has sued Argentina in a New York court over its seizure of a 51 percent stake in Buenos Aires-based oil firm YPF.
    
    The class-action suit was filed by Repsol and another YPF shareholder, U.S.-based financial investment advisory firm Texas Yale Capital Corporation.
    
    Attorneys for the Spanish group in New York are seeking to have the court force the Argentine government to make an offer to buy all of YPF's outstanding Class D shares in the wake of its decision to expropriate the controlling stake from Repsol.
    
    Argentina announced plans for the takeover on April 16 and a bill formalizing the nationalization was signed into law earlier this month.
    
    Repsol alleges in the 27-page suit that the Argentine government breached its contractual obligations to other shareholders by failing to make the offer in seizing YPF, Argentina's largest oil producer.
    
    The Spanish company has asked that the price of the offer be set in accordance with the law.
    
    Repsol's attorneys have added that until that offer is made the Argentine government cannot exercise its voting rights attached to the nationalized shares and faces other restrictions.
    
    Separately, Repsol on Tuesday made an initial move toward invoking international arbitration over the expropriation, sending a letter to Argentine President Cristina Fernandez formally proclaiming a dispute over the seizure.
    
    The move means that if the parties don't reach an accord on compensation within six months, Repsol will take the case to the World Bank's International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes, sources in the Spanish firm told Efe on Tuesday.
    
    Prior to Argentina's decision to seize control of YPF, Repsol had been the controlling shareholder with a 57.4 percent stake, which the Spanish company's chairman, Antonio Brufau, has valued at $10.5 billion.
    
    YPF's new administrators, however, have hinted the government will not pay that much and are auditing the firm's finances amid concerns about a lack of investment and fuel shortages.
    
    Repsol, whose current stake in YPF stands at around 6 percent, says the nationalization violates a bilateral treaty on protection of investments.
    
    The Argentine federal government is keeping just over half of the controlling 51 percent stake in YPF, with the remainder to be divided among the country's oil-producing provinces.
    
    Argentina's Grupo Petersen still holds a 25.46 percent interest and another 17.09 percent of the shares continue to be traded on the Buenos Aires and New York stock exchanges.
    
    Repsol has said the recent discovery of massive unconventional shale gas and oil reserves in west-central Argentina was behind the move to seize control of the firm and has denied Buenos Aires' accusations that YPF's dividend policy sapped it of the resources it needed to invest and meet the country's energy needs.
    
    It also has said energy companies in Argentina have been discouraged from investing due to regulated fuel and electricity prices.
    
    The Spanish government has blasted the expropriation move and retaliated by announcing plans to limit imports of Argentine biodiesel.
    
    Madrid said it also will pursue "measures of a diplomatic nature" in various international forums in response to the takeover.
     
  11. Tremer

    Tremer It Wandered In From the Wastes

    150
    Apr 5, 2010
    So whats the point to put this in this information in the thread, if you don't know of the issue Pixote. Sander didn't have problem to search what happen to Repsol for himself.

    Try not to talk about something that you don't know and try to stay in topic
     
  12. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    Do you mean all that in the code quotes is a fabrication?
     
  13. plaidchuck

    plaidchuck It Wandered In From the Wastes

    108
    May 4, 2012
    The point is as I said Argentina has bigger issues probably, like jumping off the cliff with Chávez and his "amigotes" than the Falklands.
     
  14. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Ratty, except old Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003
    On no, what will Argentina do without foreign investment from Spain, especially now that the latter is flush with money?!

    lulz. This isn't the 20th century anymore. Pretty soon it will be countries like Spain courting countries like Argentina for investment, as they desperately scramble to stabilize their hemorraging economies.
     
  15. Tremer

    Tremer It Wandered In From the Wastes

    150
    Apr 5, 2010
    :roll: No. Not all that was write there were fabrications.

    I know is kind of amazing, but our government can take care of more that one issue at the same time. And Malvinas fall in various issues that we have, like having a colony in our continent, having a military base near our country, having being stolen from our ground.

    Other thing is Venezuela that is jumping in the wagon with brazil and Argentina. Like all the others latin country in america that why we form Onasur and one of the issue that the group want to fix is Malvinas, so is more a issue of vvariousccountries
     
  16. nemo00

    nemo00 First time out of the vault

    86
    Mar 18, 2009
    You know any way you cut it Argentina's claim to the Falklands is down right ridiculous. And believe me i do have some experience with these types of situations as i am hungarian form Transylvania which since 1918 is Romanian territory (Eastern Europe above Serbia and Bulgaria near the Black sea) so I know the emotional sides of these types of arguments.

    It is all about what the majority of a people in a disputed territory want. If you haven't support from the majority of people of a territory you have no claim . International law could by some miracle give right to your claim (wont happen very soon), but a country has the right to not give a tiny rats ass about the international court it is called sovereignty (of course this usually has some repercussions but mostly economic especially if yo are a week country).

    The only viable solution for the grieving party in this case Argentina is to go to war over the issue as it did (the fact that it was a dictatorial government and not the present one that is completely irrelevant, just look at Germany) as they did, and they lost bigtime. By loosing the war they for fitted any legitimacy over the Falklands.

    Now the only way to change this is to start another war and win it. Anyway this would be an imperialistic, empire building and unjust war as the inhabitants think themselves as British and changing the status qvo would go against the will of the inhabitants.

    So the only viable way in which Argentina could rightfully retake the Falklands is this. Start settling the islands with Argentinians under British rule wait for a while until they become the majority and outnumber the "natives", then these new inhabitants should by their own will organize a series of protest referendums etc, with which they can prove to the world that they by their own free will want to belong to Argentina an request help because they are being oppressed. Only than can Argentina rightfully claim those islands and obtain full international support, and as a last resort start another war which they must win.

    Until the above steps are not respected Argentina ha no moral or legal or any other right to the Falklands, and any aggressive move will and should be catalogged as unjustfull and imperialistic.
     
  17. Eternauta

    Eternauta It Wandered In From the Wastes

    134
    Dec 8, 2010
    Yes, .Pixote., because some dude from somewhere who admits is not really informed about stuff can come and illuminate us all about something that happened or is happening in *my* country.

    No point in defending my government, I guess I am simply a barbaric indian and that your most ignorant opinion is still better that what *we* think.

    So this is the last thing I needed to understand there is no point in this thread. It is mostly about guys from the North hemisphere expressing their usually ignorant opinions and not paying attention to what we say. No point in answering to most of the "arguments" exposed here when those same things were mentioned and answered to before.

    I should have known after reading that "Argentineans post but British don't therefore Argentineans are violent" bullshit.

    Thank you guys for once again making it clear it's always about what you think and never about what we have to say. Take your behaviour in this very thread and imagine it in a new, bigger context: international diplomacy - That is how the UK behaves with Argentina at the moment.
    :clap:
     
  18. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    I always wondered what happened to all that gold the Spanish took from South America...anyway I don't really care either way.

    Governments only think about their short term political interests, who knows maybe what happened to REPSOL was legal and proper, if that was the case then the why has the - "The Spanish government has blasted the expropriation move and retaliated by announcing plans to limit imports of Argentine biodiesel."

    Anyway, any company thinking about investing in Argentina might feel a little uneasy with the recent events. :roll:
     
  19. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    The british stole it.

    Fine with me, we don't want any of your businesses. Every time european/american companies/economies came to our country they fucked us. So the less we have to do with them the better if you ask me. I'd much rather make business with China/Africa.

    So yeah, I think this should be a warning to foreign companies "fuck us and we'll kick you the heck out".

    @Iabimyshkin: Please don't start with the "Argentina is oppressing these poor people and UK is selflessly spending millions in maintaining a military fortress just to defend a tiny village of 2.000 inhabitants only because they care about the freedom of the peoples", because I'll be glad to show you what a load of crap that is all over again.

    EDIT:

    Okay, now that I had more time to make a more complete answer.

    colorful words, would you mind to dramatize the terror they suffered because of the dirty evil argentinenan foreigners a even further? In any case you maintain the pattern others kepts of ignoring everything I've said, so I'll just keep quoting myself... again.

    To wich I answered...

    So you are basically saying that we should ignore international law and withdraw our claim out of the kindness of our hearts, and let them belong to a country that has often ignored all regards for self determination like in the case of the Chagos islanders in Diego Garcia.

    Double standards all around, whenever world powers suppress the freedoms of others to get their way they get away with it, even when it goes against UN rulings, but whenever a smaller nation has interests that conflict with their own they scream oppression and tyranny, even when there is not. And when the UN rules something as valid and you still try to say it's wrong is a clear example of it.

    We have gone over this many times already, they were never yours, you had a clandestine base there illegally when they were spanish, they continued to be spanish until argentina was a "nation proper", they had no british population whatsoever when we settled there and the UK kicked us out by force. Oh and by then Argentina had been recognized even by the UK as a "nation proper".

    This has never happened, no embargo has been imposed, all that happened is that no ships with the islands flag can dock in South America for this flag not belonging to an existing nation, if they want to be british and not be independent they should use the birtish flag. But other than that they can receive any goods they wish as per usual, the same with passenger traffic. What's more, Argentina already proposed daily flights to the islands from Buenos Aires, and if the islands don't trade with us is because of a self imposed embargo, we never refused to trade with them nor tried to prevent other countries from doing it. If you herd about Argentina imposing an embargo to them I'm sorry but it must have been propaganda.

    Did you know the last islander to ask for the argentine citizenship received death threats from islanders, calling him a traitor and threatening to kill him if he ever returns to the islands?

    Like the information of an unexisting trade embargo?

    The UK wont let them, they're not interested in them being independent. Personally I would gladly accept them as an independent south american neighbor if it meant it would get rid of the British presence and their claims, like their antartic claims. But strangely enough there is never talk about independence, only about them being more british than the british and their willingness to remain british to the bone. Or at least that's what the UK says, there has never been a referendum or anything.

    An overseas territory that is not part of your own territory and is not independent is not a nation, it's a colony. They do not simply have a "relationship" with the UK, they are directly controlled by the UK government, and everything they have, including the right to tax for fishing in the area is given to them by the british government authority and can be taken away any time the UK pleases.

    They are by no means a nation o a separate ethnicity or entity whatsoever. They are british citizens (after the war because before they werent even given a proper british citizenship) who wish to remain british and are represented by the british government, not a local government of their own.
     
  20. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Still the greatest quote of all the times.

    I also think the following territory should be returned to it's rightful owner. Italy.

     
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