Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Magnus, May 8, 2008.

  1. Groin Shot

    Groin Shot First time out of the vault

    27
    Jun 14, 2008
    Hey Magnus, I have no idea if this has been posted about the F2WR mod regarding OS X but here goes.....

    Being a mac user I've felt rather left out as far as mods go and decided to fool around with files and bit and figured out how to get the mod to work in the OS X version of the game. I'm doing my first run through the game with the mod and killaps mod as well and seems to be running fine. I'll give the game a playthough this weekend and pm you the info on how it can be installed on the OS X version of the game. This mod definitely breathes new life into the game Cheers!
     
  2. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Ah, the file's name is item.lst, and you only have to include it if it isn't already there! This should only be the case in completely unmodded FO2, and since you have the RP v1.2, you don't have to worry about item.lst or the Sound folder, since the RP takes care of those.
     
  3. GlowHound

    GlowHound Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    311
    Jun 12, 2008
    Oh. Right. Somehow thought .lst was .int o.o

    I didn't check the box for the sounds from Fallout when I installed the RP so that's why I got it from your mod.
     
  4. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Well Magnus, there are .44 FMJ (the green) and JHP (the blue) types of ammo AFAIK. (I wrote this just to make it clear, not that I suspect you of ignorance x])

    So - FMJ does normal damage (about 10-14) to un\light\medium armored types of enemies (haven't fought any tougher ones, yet), while JHP does about 0-3. I shall check the Ammo Fix bug, but I don't recall installing the fix at all. Will let you know, soon.

    BTW - FN FAL kicks ass!

    *EDIT* I am ashamed to admit that I had the ammo fix installed. Setting damage ratio to Fallout default (which means I use the one in your mod, right?) makes .44 JHP work properly.
     
  5. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    I like posts like these! :D You had me worried that I might have made a horrible bug, there. I was testing the Magnum myself right now, and it worked a-ok against pretty much anything, real nice with the booooom sound from FO1, too. My mod is indeed meant to work with the default FO2 damage calculation, so any mods that change this calculation will make the game behave weirdly.
     
  6. LevaR

    LevaR First time out of the vault

    12
    Jun 14, 2008
    Hi all. This is my first post here.
    I've been keeping track of this mod from the very beginning and so far it looks pretty good. However I'd like to see you tweak some of the weapons. I've made a comparison:

    Power fist: 19 avg dmg, 3ap, 6.3 dmg for 1ap, with bonus hth attacks 9.5 dmg for 1ap.
    Mega power fist: 32.5 avg dmg, 3ap, 10.9 dmg for 1ap, with perk 16.2 dmg for 1ap.
    Compared to:

    Ripper: 26.5 avg dmg, 4ap, 6.6 dmg for 1ap, with perk 8,8 dmg for 1ap. (dmg can be higher because of penetrate perk)
    Super sledge: 35 avg dmg, 5ap, 7 dmg for 1 ap, with perk 8.7 dmg for 1ap.
    Slugger: 25 dmg, 4ap, 6.2 dmg for 1ap, with perk 8.3 dmg for 1ap.

    Now how much dmg will you do with 8 ap:
    without perk: PF: 38, MPF: 65, R: 53, SS: 35(lol), LS: 50.
    with perk: PF: 76, MPF: 130, R: 53, SS: 70, LS: 50.

    10 ap:
    no perk: PF: 57, MPF: 97.5, R: 53, SS: 70, LS: 50.
    perk: PF: 95, MPF: 162.5, R: 79.5, SS: 70(lol), LS:75.

    12ap:
    no perk: PF: 76, MPF: 130, R: 79.5, SS: 70(lol), LS: 75.
    perk: PF: 114, MPF: 195, R: 106, SS: 105, LS: 100.

    From the above we can see that Super sledge sucks, Ripper is much better while Louisville slugger is comparable... and all of them get smoked by their unarmed counterparts not only in dmg but in overall usefulness as the knockback perk is more of a drawback than benefit in most end game battles (Enclave, Navarro, mutants).
    True melee weapons is better in early game but since power fist is obtainable from Broken Hills or NCR it's not really a good choice to take it over unarmed. Not to mention New Reno and SF ring fights that further benefit unarmed players. Well I hope to see some changes that will bring balance to F2 :wink:
     
  7. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Done. There is now balance in F2, just download v1.5 of the mod called F2WR 8-)
     
  8. LevaR

    LevaR First time out of the vault

    12
    Jun 14, 2008
    Well my post above was based on your mod v1.5.
    Sorry but top unarmed weapon having on average 60% higher damage than top melee weapon is not what I'd call balanced.
     
  9. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    The Super Sledge does 30-40 damage, the Mega Power Fist does 25-40. Where's the extra damage?
     
  10. LevaR

    LevaR First time out of the vault

    12
    Jun 14, 2008
    I see you haven't read my first post as I explained it all there.
    I'll try to write it again more clearly, focusing on comparing mega power fist and super sledge only.
    If the char you play has 5 action points enabling him to do one attack per turn then it is clear that super sledge does more damage than mega power fist.
    But let's say you decide to make a different char that has 10 agility. Now assume he has leveled a bit and has taken two action boy perks and bonus hth attacks perk. So he sits comfortably at 12 action points (10 from agility + 2 from action boy) in addition bonus hth attacks decreases the ap required to attack with a weapon by 1, meaning that in one turn he's able to attack 3 times with a super sledge (4 ap for an attack*3 attacks=12 ap). In your mod super sledge does 30-40 dmg which means 35 average damage, now multiply that by 3 attacks your char can make in one turn and final damage in one turn with super sledge is 35*3=105. Let's make similar calculations with mega power fist. In you mod it does 25-40 dmg = 32.5 average. With bonus hth attacks perk it's ap cost is 2 for an attack, meaning that you char with 12 ap can attack 6 times. 6*32.5 dmg=195
    So on one hand we have 195 damage per turn with unarmed weapon on the other 105 with it's melee equivalent. A simple calculation and we can see that mega power fist does 85% more damage. I hope all is clear now I'm afraid I can't explain it any better.
     
  11. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    478
    Mar 6, 2005
    Alright, I've got a strange bug. (aside from your mod I'm also using the newest 1.2 of the RP)

    Everything was working fine, then yesterday I updated your mod to 1.5 and played for a couple hours in the Den. Things seemed to be going well. I helped Laura take out Tyler's gang, and looted the bodies. However, when I went to sell the loot, I noticed that the vendors had become bugged.

    They just keep telling me that the deal isn't good enough, even if what I'm offering them is worth thousands more than what I'm trying to get from them. I tried all the vendors in the Den and they all have this same bug now.

    So I thought maybe it has to do with the weapon price adjustments you made in the latest version of your mod. However, even when I try to sell and buy non-weapons, the same thing occurs, so maybe your mod has nothing to do with it. I have no idea.

    I loaded an ealier save from a different character I had been playing with while using your Weapons Redone 1.4, and I went right to a vendor and he traded with me just fine.

    I would have tried to troubleshoot more, but I had to head to work (where I am now).
     
  12. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Dravean: I read something about killap struggling to clean up a bit of code in the Lara quest properly. I can tell you with 99% certainty that there is no chance F2WR could have caused a problem like this. And if you loaded up a v1.4 savegame with v1.5 installed and it worked fine, then I'm 100% sure that this is not an F2WR problem, since if it were the v1.5 price changes that bugged the game, it would have been bugged no matter what kind of savegame you used. I suggest looking through the RP quest thread, and PM'ing Killap after having done that if the answer isn't in the thread.

    Levar: The Unarmed skill is absolutely not overpowered in comparison to the Melee skill. Sorry if I seem rude, but that is my opinion, and this is my mod. Besides, if you make every combat skill just as rewarding as the other one, do you know what you get? Oblivion.
     
  13. LevaR

    LevaR First time out of the vault

    12
    Jun 14, 2008
    Fair enough, it's your mod and I have to respect your opinion.
    No. You get freedom of choice. Anyway good luck on you mod.
     
  14. GlowHound

    GlowHound Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    311
    Jun 12, 2008
    When all the choices are equal and it doesn't matter what you choose I personally get this sense of overwhelming and don't know what to pick.

    It's kinda frustrating, especially when you just want to pick and play the damn game.
     
  15. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    All right all right, listen, I hate getting cross with the users. I remember my very first incarnation of this mod, where I gave the Bozar a single shot damage of 75-100 and an AP cost of 3, because the maths fit compared to its burst damage.

    The thing is, though, maths are not the only thing that counts in Fallout 2. This is one of those rare games that have a pulse, a soul if you want, like Deus Ex, Riven, Half-Life 1 and all the other golden oldies. Every time I adjust something in this game, I am rewriting a vital part of the universe, so I have to weigh every choice I make on a golden scale.

    I could make every weapon skill equally damaging and challenging, but it would really suck. I hate Oblivion's guts, and would personally rather go shoot myself in the face than turn Fallout 2 into something that even remotely resembles this piece of garbage that contributes to ripping gaming culture apart.

    So even though I have improved Throwing, I still haven't made it good enough to use as a main weapon skill. Even though I have reduced prices of many weapons, I've still retained the possibility to earn a fantastic amount of cash from gang war profiteering. And even though I have improved the Laser weapons, Plasma Rifles can still kick their ass any day.

    There's a fine balance between improving the game and making a lot of enemies, something I've learned in this month that I've spent creating F2WR. If I were to decrease the Power Fists' damage, I'd go across the line, as they are part of the soul of Fallout 2, and I am not going to increase the melee weapons' damage any more, since they are good enough at the moment. Not as good as guns, but then again, they shouldn't be. And a motorized Mega Power Fist squeezing your liver out of your arse is in my opinion just as bad luck as a Super Sledge crunching your skull, if not more so.


    Groin Shot: I'm awaiting your PM. When I get it, I'll add instructions for installing F2WR on a Mac... ugh... Mac... and credit you in the "Thanks" section.
     
  16. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    737
    Sep 16, 2005
    @Magnus
    I am so glad you have stood up for yourself, for a while I thought you would just implement anything anyone asked. You have found the true Fallout Modding Spirit and I applaud that.

    Keep up the good work!
     
  17. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Thank you, friend *high five*. I assumed that me and my mod were now big enough to show some integrity :wink: I've also stopped double posting whenever there's a new release, because now I know there are people who check my thread regularly and do the necessary posting to keep it afloat among the RP and the Megamod, and I am very grateful for that!


    I've read your post and Killap's answer in the RP thread, and I can only say that this seems like a random bug. I just did Lara's quest myself, and no vendors are acting weirdly on me.

    Y' know, once or twice, I've had the Den mainstreet map turn into a bunch of duplicating red hexes and player models on a black background, corrupting all of my saved files in the Den, and this was in a completely new, fresh game with the RP v1.2, though Killap wasn't able to reproduce it. Fallout 2 is finicky and unpredictable, and you seem to have been struck by a particularly malevolent subsystem phantom in this case.

    I'd try playing on from that earlier save of yours and see if you bypass any buggy vendors. If not, then my price changes may have made earlier savegames incompatible with v1.5, though it is beyond my comprehension how this could have happened. Any new games should behave perfectly, though. Hope it works!
     
  18. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    478
    Mar 6, 2005
    Well now that I've had a chance to sit down and trouble shoot the issue, I'm happy to report that your mod not at fault.

    It seems the games vendors don't like lit flares and will never accept an offer from you if they're part of the deal, no matter what. They'll always just say that it's not enough. Remove the lit flare(s), and it works exactly as it should.

    I reported this to Killap as well. I'm curious if others have this same issue.

    EDIT:

    Alright, I've just done some more testing, and not only is this a bug in vanilla Fallout 2, but also in Fallout 1.
     
  19. Groin Shot

    Groin Shot First time out of the vault

    27
    Jun 14, 2008
    Magnus, I'll continue playing thru this weekend into the end of next week before I pm the details the last thing I want to do is to piss off the few mac users that do play Fallout 2 heh.
     
  20. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    Well, exactly! Fallout 2 wasn't broken beacuse every skill wasn't equal. It was broken because not every skill was useful. Lasers got fixed to be scary armor-piercing weapons early on but to still be the lowest grade of energy gun. Throwing is now a worthwile support skill for any char if you put it at about 50%.

    @LevaR:
    Compare everything on Unarmed v Melee.
    MPF doesn't have Penetrate anymore.
    Ripper does have Penetrate, but costs more AP.
    Super Sledge has Knockback and a 2 hex range. It works very well with Throwing or Rockets to knock an enemy back so he can be safely shot at.
    Melee gets more powerful weapons right from the start, 2-hex range weapons, Penetrate and Knockback. Unarmed gets fast late-game weapons and the special attacks. Melee= special effects, Unarmed=sheer power and crits.

    You always have freedom of choice in FO2. You can build whatever sort of character you want. Making every skill equal makes that choice less interesting, as there's no consequence to the choice of skill. One of the things I tend to do is "upgrade" from a good early game skill to a good late game skill when I get the Tag perk or a good store of spare skill points. Also Throwing makes perfect sense now. It can complement any character by giving access to some good area of effect firepower with a small skill investment.