Fallout 3: Fallout At It's Finest

Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Chemistry Teacher
Many criticize Fallout 3 for everything that it supposedly does wrong, but many fail to see that Fallout 3, in many aspects, is the best Fallout game.


1. Atmosphere

Atmosphere is the center stone of every Fallout game. Fallout 3 excels at this, carving out a far superior atmosphere to any of the other games. Wandering through Downtown D.C. and the subway tunnels is harrowing, and an example of the brilliant tone set by the game.

2. Map Design

Not only does Fallout 3 have a better map design than any other Fallout game, but it also has the most free map design out of any Fallout game. Take for instance where the player starts the game on the map. It is pinpoint in the middle, not to North or the West and close to an invisible wall, deathclaw sanctuary or anything restricting. This effectively encourages exploration of it's already well-designed map.

3. Side Quests

Fallout 3 follows a philosophy of quality > quantity. While some have criticized it for having less side quests than several other Fallout games, Fallout 3's side quest are arguably the best designed quests in the franchise. Take for instance the Superhuman Gambit, an excellent showcase of how campy yet grounded Fallout can be, without straying into Wild Wasteland or Fallout 2 territories. The Power of The Atom showcases just how scenic and fun a side quest can be, as well as how impactful it can be on the environment. Never before or after Fallout 3 has a side quest ever managed to pull this off.

4. Factions

Fallout 3 possesses the most beloved and iconic factions in the franchise, the Enclave and the Brotherhood of Steel. Some have criticized Fallout 3 for having an angelic BoS too uncharacteristic of Fallout 1's Brotherhood. This is addressed in lore in how the Brotherhood Outcasts came to exist. The BoS in Fallout 3 is Lyons' chapter of the BoS, who set aside their main goal of capturing technology to use it to help the Wasteland prosper. When combined with James's goal to purify the Potomac river, one can see why the BoS in Fallout 3 is so much more understandable and human than any other iteration of itself in the series.

5. Design

The outfits, the weapons, the armors, the miscellaneous items and the creature designs in Fallout 3 were all designed by Adam Adamowicz, who has been applauded and acclaimed by many Fallout fans for his unique style and take on Fallout, never seen before in the franchise. Not only have many of his designed been carved into the public perception of Fallout (the leather armor and T-45 come to mind), but his style combines with the atmosphere to give Fallout 3 an apocalyptic yet beautiful aesthetic that is synonymous with Fallout in 2021.


If a whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, then Fallout 3 is not only a masterpiece in it's own right, but a masterpiece on the basis of it's own individual parts. Fallout 3 is a fun and enjoyable departure from the Borderlands-esque humor of Fallout 2 or New Vegas, while also being having more artistic sensibilities than Fallout 4.
 
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Atomic Postman said:
number 5. is the big true, didn't read the rest
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I think 1 is correct, at leas among the 3D games. 2 is half right - Fallout 3's map isn't particuarly well designed, but it does allow the most freedom of any game and a lot of people like this. I don't care much about it but I understand it. 3 there is a scrap of truth hidden behind a bunch of shit. 4 is the only one that's almost totally retarded
 
Heisenberg said:
Tell me. Why didn't you like Fallout 3's map design? What was so offputting about it?
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The map isn't really designed in any meaningful way. It looks nice, but actually having obstacles is pretty important - in 1 and 2, this was enforced by high-level spawning across a lot of the map, especially plot critical areas you weren't supposed to reach until late but potentially could. In NV, it was enforced by a combination of invisible walls and pre-placed enemies, which feels like the right way to go about it. In Fo3, enemies level with you and there are only a few locations that you will have major difficulty with early on. The map itself is basically just a big space that locations are placed into, not really designed to facilitate a completely open world.

A lot of people like this, and I understand the attraction, but I prefer the NV model, as I don't really put that high a premium on exploration.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
in 1 and 2, this was enforced by high-level spawning across a lot of the map, especially plot critical areas you weren't supposed to reach until late but potentially could.
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In other words, filler and bad design passed off as good design because it fits the pseudointellectual standard.
Hardboiled Android said:
The map isn't really designed in any meaningful way. It looks nice, but actually having obstacles is pretty important
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Old Olney is an obstacle. In fact, it's a vanilla area only really intended for high level base game or Broken Steel. If you go there level 1, you're dead.
Hardboiled Android said:
The map itself is basically just a big space that locations are placed into, not really designed to facilitate a completely open world.
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Wrong. Fallout 3 has an amazing open world where the player can explore or do anything so please except enter a few areas until it's late game. That alone makes it brilliantly constructed. In Fallout 3 everything has a purpose. There's no wacky bizarre deathclaw hive placed convieniently to block off a potential route like in New Vegas.
 
Heisenberg said:
Old Olney is an obstacle. In fact, it's a vanilla area only really intended for high level base game or Broken Steel. If you go there level 1, you're dead.
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It's one of the locations that you'd have difficulty, but it's not an obstacle because there's nothing there until Broken Steel. It's not blocking access to anything, and doesn't help to direct the story.

Heisenberg said:
Wrong. Fallout 3 has an amazing open world where the player can explore or do anything so please except enter a few areas until it's late game.
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This si true, and there is value in that, but it requires very little actual design or thought on Bethesda's part.

Heisenberg said:
In Fallout 3 everything has a purpose.
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Come on now
 
Heisenberg said:
There is a lot of thought in Fallout 3's design. Large, sprawling, interesting and fun open world sandboxes aren't easy to make, y'know.
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It certainly took a lot of work to make it in terms of manhours - but in what sense did a lot of thought go into it? There's no need to structure it or figure out how things interact with each other, the route the player has to take etc etc. None of these things are particuarly well accounted for, and why should they be?? That's not the point of Bethesda's design philosophy, Bethesda wants to give players total freedom to see a series of cool things and have stuff to do. The relationship between these locations and the map they sit on is largely irrelevant.
Heisenberg said:
I mean, take a look at New Vegas and how Obsidian struggled to make something even challenging Fallout 3's map design.
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The two maps are trying to achieve different things.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
It looks nice, but actually having obstacles is pretty important - in 1 and 2, this was enforced by high-level spawning across a lot of the map, especially plot critical areas you weren't supposed to reach until late but potentially could. In NV, it was enforced by a combination of invisible walls and pre-placed enemies, which feels like the right way to go about it. In Fo3, enemies level with you and there are only a few locations that you will have major difficulty with early on.
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Because Bethesda wants their games to be power fantasies, just stuff to shoot at and feel powerful. Any difficulty spike would be met with whining by Bethesda fans. The hilarious thing with this is that apparently the fans bitched about the base game being too easy, and Bethesda's solution was too make every enemy a bullet sponge that takes a thousands bullets to die.

The entire purpose of being able to reach areas with high level enemies is to give the player temporary goals, and also allow challenge runs where you try to get through those areas at low levels and get the items they have very early on. You can't do any of this in Fallout 3 because everything scales to you.

Hardboiled Android said:
The map itself is basically just a big space that locations are placed into, not really designed to facilitate a completely open world.
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It's a theme park with no thought being put into how cohesive the whole world is. This is the same world that allows Republic of Dave to exist next to a den of deathclaws, and literally nothing happens to the former. This is like my neighbours being dinosaurs, but they don't care that i live right next to them. Locations are just put randomly on the map with no thought or foresight on how they could interact with each other.

Meanwhile New Vegas, and the first two Fallout games for that matter, cared to make their location placement make actual sense, and has its locations actually acknowledging each others's existence, at least locations next to each other.
 
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Hardboiled Android said:
but in what sense did a lot of thought go into it?
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There are many routes in Fallout 3, as well as many possibilities. For instance, one can skip straight to Rivet City, GNR or Smith Casey's Garage without completely past steps in the narrative. The world is completely free to explore and measures were taken to achieve this.
Hardboiled Android said:
The two maps are trying to achieve different things.
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The purpose of a map is for the player to have fun exploring an open world. Stop being a pseud and face up to the fact that Fallout 3's map is just a lot more fun.

Norzan said:
Because Bethesda wants their games to be power fantasies, just stuff to shoot at and feel powerful. Any difficulty spike would be meant with whining by Bethesda fans. The hilarious thing with this is that apparently the fans bitched about the base game being too easy, and Bethesda's solution was too make every enemy a bullet sponge that takes a thousands bullets to die.
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Are you that bad at Fallout 4? I never experienced this. Are you still using pipe weapons?
Norzan said:
It's a theme park with no thought being put into how cohesive the whole world is. This is the same world that allows Republic of Dave to exist next to a den of deathclaws, and literally nothing happens to the former. This is like my neighbours being dinosaurs, but they don't care that i live right next to them. Locations are just put randomly on the map with no thought or foresight on how they could interact with each other.
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They're larger in scale and distance than what is depicted on the map. Do you really think the entire D.C. area is represented proportionally in comparison to real life D.C.? I would compare it to your neighbours being dinosaurs that are literally about 10 miles away.
 
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Heisenberg said:
There are many routes in Fallout 3, as well as many possibilities. For instance, one can skip straight to Rivet City, GNR or Smith Casey's Garage without completely past steps in the narrative. The world is completely free to explore and measures were taken to achieve this.
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There are many routes, there would also be many routes if the map were literally just a blank space with locations. It's irrelevant to whether or not the map is designed.

Heisenberg said:
The purpose of a map is for the player to have fun exploring an open world. Stop being a pseud and face up to the fact that Fallout 3's map is just a lot more fun.
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As I've said, there is certainly a virtue in 3's map design. There's also a virtue in NV's design. Some people like one, some poeple like the other, plenty of people like both, which is why both of the games are tremendously popular
 
Hardboiled Android said:
As I've said, there is certainly a virtue in 3's map design. There's also a virtue in NV's design. Some people like one, some poeple like the other, plenty of people like both, which is why both of the games are tremendously popular
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Some people like shit too but I wouldn't want to eat it. This is why I prefer the patrician choice, Fallout 3's design.
 
Heisenberg said:
Never before or after Fallout 3 has a side quest ever managed to pull this off.
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Actually
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Solve_the_Gecko_powerplant_problem

Heisenberg said:
it also has the most free map design out of any Fallout game
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I guess, if we ignore utility and metro tunnels.

Heisenberg said:
For instance, one can skip straight to Smith Casey's Garage
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You can do that with GNR and RC, but going straight to James causes MQ to have a major stroke and characters acknowledge things you didn't do and characters you haven't met.
 
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