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Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Hassknecht, Jun 19, 2021.
Canada, Mexico, or Caribbean could work.
I watched only a Youtube letsplay and it was definitely an experience...
He actually believes that this is something that would be said unironically on NMA. He's so caught up in his reinvention of himself as an enlightened and superior human being that he can't distinguish between reality and the picture he painted of his adversaries in his mind. When your definition of yourself is nothing but "I'm better than them", you're prone to have the worst views of "them" to elevate yourself.
I've had arguments with him on his takes on the lore and themes of Fallout on Reddit. Confirmed midwit. He thinks the BoS are communist lmfao
Nothing to do with politics because I'm probably on the same side of the aisle as he is from my foggy memories of his posts back in 2014, but the guy's just an asshat.
This is one of the most insanely retarded Fallout ideological takes I've ever heard, and God knows that's a tall order
It's a double whammy of ignorance of Fallout and real life philosophy.
Yeah, that faction that totally supports the absence of social classes by having ranks in their faction where some have more power than others.
BoS is so far removed from communism that it makes that claim way too funny.
A strict psuedo-monarchical hierarchy that's imitating feudal classes and is almost entirely defined by controlling and restricting the material conditions of those outside their elite class - straight out of Marx's mouth
I think an argument could be made for the Brotherhood as utopian socialists or even (neo) feudal socialists, but certainly not anything Marxian.
The problem is that they're not a society, they're a tribe. Any policies of theirs are internal to their clan. They aren't a socialist society.
They are like the Knights Templar or at least similar to a society like that: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making between 'tribe' and 'society' - tribes are certainly societies. Do you mean that they're not really a coherent society, but merely an identity group within a society?
In any case, I think an argument can be made that they're some variety of reactionary non-Marxian socialist - Utopian, Quasi-Primitivist, Feudal. Socialism as a term and concept existed before Marx, but was poorly defined. Marx invents 'scientific' socialism (from which practically all modern socialist thought derives), but of course he acknowledged and defined those movements that preceded him as follows: Socialists are those which recognize the damage wrought by capitalism on social relations, and seek by some programme to repair that damage and restore social relations. Among these were feudal socialism, petty bourgeoise socialism, utopian socialism, etc. But Marx considered most of the early articulations of socialism to be either reactionary or misguided because they were unscientific.
Now, if one wanted to argue that the Brotherhood was socialist in a pre-marxian sense, they would say: what is a greater damage to social relations wrought by capitalism than an atomic war, and the parafascist excesses of late capitalism? Indeed, this is precisely what the Brotherhood was founded upon, preventing another holocaust and the horrors of late America. They accomplish this by limiting the extent to which the common people can access productive factors, thereby limiting the accumulation of capital and the re-birth of capitalism. Instead it's sequestered in their isolated communities, which are 'communal' in the sense that any military organization is, and even moreso since as you rightly point out they're essentially tribal communities.
So, the Brotherhood could in this light be considered Utopian, Primitivist, and Neo-Feudal socialists. Utopian insofar as their ideological programme is based upon normative ideals rather than any concrete understanding of material processes, and also their social structure could be compared to the utopian socialist communities of the early 19th century at a stretch. Primitivist along two dimensions - one, their communities in some sense recreate the conditions of so-called 'primitive socialism' by their tribal structure. Two, their essential aim is to enforce primitivism upon others by seizing and controlling advanced factors of production, with the possibility that eventually those factors will be shared and doled out in a 'responsible' manner that avoids the pitfalls of the old industrial era. Finally (and probably the biggest stretch of these stretches) they're Neo-Feudal insofar as they justify and style themselves after the pre-capitalist mode of production, essentially seeing it as better than what followed it.
All of that said... it's still a pretty silly argument, and I'm sure Tagziel just meant "Durr, they share so that makes them gommunist." Beyond that, I don't think it's the most interesting or insightful way of looking at the Brotherhood, and (as is often the case in my opinion for a lot of Marxist analyses) it bears little relation to reality or the Brotherhood's self-conception. But I think this is probably how a Marxist historian in the Fallout universe would analyze the Brotherhood.
EDIT: Misused 'productive factors' completely, want to acknowledge
Maybe he is talking about New Vegas Norzan? If so then I really have to disagree with it. Unless he's talking about Fallout Shelter which is unlikely maybe.
I doubt it's New Vegas because i'm pretty sure @Alphons likes it, otherwise i'm gonna be surprised if he thinks New Vegas doesn't follow any of the themes from the first two games. He most likely meant Brotherhood of Steel.
Please don't be another "Fallout Deviantart/Discord/Reddit mod went out of control" kind of project. Fallout community has some extremely talented programmers in it, and to be completely frank, is also filled with shit writers. Like, I still can't get over the fact they programmed fully functional vehicles of all kinds in the goddamn Gamebryo, a game engine that is older than Half-Life. And ended up being overshadowed by an absolutely horrendous main storyline which all of you already know about. If organized properly, this community easily can overshadow Bethesda itself. Even though projects such as Fallout 4: New Vegas and Fallout: Miami looks promising, I can't help but be concerned.
What a Putz.
Ooo, Fallout: Pirates. There we go. Starring Kevin Costner as your dad/son.
honestly, Water World is really not bad. It's one of the better Mad Max knock-offs. Costner is the main thing that holds it back, charisma black hole
OOOOOOOOOOH IS THAT FALLOUT BLOODY LONDON!
I would rather have a Fallen London RPG.