Fallout's 10th anniversary: Vault 13 Timeline

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Morbus, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. Crowfoot

    Crowfoot Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 21, 2007
    I'd say it's probably safer to go with a certain amount of ambiguity, since that's how the subject is treated in the games. I think Razlo in Shady Sands says that he doesn't understand how the Emperor Scorpion could grow so big as a result of radiation alone, whereas one or other of the FEV experiment disks mentions various different animals experimented on that could be references to critters that turn up in the game. Some of the escaped mammals could have ended up as the Molerats and other types of funky rat, whilst I had a crazy thought that maybe the tapeworms that are mentioned became the Floaters. I dunno, just my thoughts.

    (Edit: discussion over. Point meaningless.)
  2. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    The Germans developed the V2 series of rockets during WW2, I don't think having rockets with nuclear warheads would be totally out of the question in 1950s science fiction. If someone dug enough, he'd probably find some 1950s stories with nuclear missiles.

    The statements in FO1 weren't very definite (but still they're there, and early FO1 documentation, as well as this picture, which was IIRC an early box mock-up, explicitly say that missiles were used), but the ones in FO2 are pretty clear in that rockets were used. Maybe it was a combination of both rockets and planes?

    Well, this timeline by Scott Campbell formed the basis of Brian Freyermuth's final FO1 timeline, which was expanded with some post-FO1 stuff by Rob Hertenstein, and which was the basis of Chris Avellone's timeline, which was the basis of The Vault's timeline. Many entries survived until the final version with virtually no changes, so that sentence might have even been in Freyermuth's version (although it's not in Avellone's).
  3. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I believe we had a discussion about the subject before; missiles vs planes.

    Some liked a combination of nuclear bombers (nuclear powered), missiles, and perhaps something like the BOMB stations.


    If a nuclear war would start now, wouldn't bombers be part of a second wave?
  4. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    Perhaps somebody knowledgeable about the subject can answer this, as my curiosity is aroused also. Would anyone even use nuclear bombs dropped from an aircraft when there are ICBMs? Doesn't seem like there'd be a good reason to, unless there was no choice because someone actually managed to destroy the missile silos.

    Also, Ausir, don't forget that the nuclear war didn't take place in the 1950's in the Fallout time line. Even if there was no intercontinental missile technology (which there might have been, I dunno), they still had over a century to develop it. I myself find it very unlikely they wouldn't have ICBMs in 20xx, when they have power armor, and cars and weapons running off self-contained fusion batteries.
  5. ***F.E.A.R.***MaNiaC

    ***F.E.A.R.***MaNiaC First time out of the vault

    Sep 22, 2007
    Erm... don't you know for what purpose the B2 was developed?
    Of course Nuclear Bombers (Bombers with nuclear warheads/bombs, NOT nuclear powered (wiki for Pluto ;-)) are an important part of the nuclear arsenal.

    You have to remember, "nukes" are no longer only dumb bombs. Nukes are cruise missiles too. And they can be easily carried near a target by planes... especially for a first strike, because they are harder to spot than ICBMs. In Fact, ICBMs are mostly important for retaliation strikes, not firt strikes.
  6. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Fallout isn't todays future vision. It is 50ths future vision. ;)
  7. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    if you base everything on tech we have seen...

    they have basically the same tech as we have without the microprocessor.

    so any tech that doesnt involve that would be possible imo

    couldnt have smart missles thats for sure.
  8. Crowfoot

    Crowfoot Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 21, 2007
    To me, the Fallout timeline always felt like they had all of the technology that we have (and obviously a whole lot more, since it's set in the future) but it just looks different because of the retention of 1950's aesthetics. Basically, I just feel that the 1950's thing just reflects a continuation of certain values and art-styles as opposed to mankind adopting a totally different approach to technology.

    (Edit: spelling)
  9. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    You felt wrong. Note that the interface was drafted up by Tony Postma to "look and function like a "real" device, so I researched and imagined it to be like some computer or car stereo with a removable face plate but with 1950' vacuum tubes, bakelite plastics and glass CRT's."

    Vacuum Tubes fell out of usage after the 50s, being replaced by transistors. There're not transistors in Fallout's world as far as we know, tho', which also makes the existence of ICBMs a bit dificult (not to mention desktop computers).

    The question you always have to ask to determine the verisimilitude of a piece of technology in Fallout is not "did they have it then" or "do we have it now", but rather "could they have imagined it then, in Science Fiction movies or books?"
  10. Crowfoot

    Crowfoot Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 21, 2007
    I was thinking about the vacuum tubes alright; they're even mentioned on the game box! When I saw them on the dialogue screen I just thought they were salvaged parts from after the apocalypse.
    Bearing in mind what you've said there, Brother None, it must have been fairly difficult to imagine everything in the game world from such a pre-defined concept.
  11. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Indeed it is. And neither is the world completely consistent, especially not after Fallout 2 and if you take Tactics as canon. But hey, it's a complex setting and whoever owns it pulls the strings on what's what in it.
  12. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    I finished reading the first tome of Mac Raboy's Flash Gordon tonight and I can say that things like guided missiles (often capable of reaching other planets in or shooting down aircraft) with various warheads (capable of destroying a comet for example) were known in science-fiction as early as in 1948.

    Other interesting things include Flash Gordon using Yoga trance to avoid interrogation in 1950 and Judo tricks in HtH fight in 1952.
  13. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    I know. Though that's only part of the question. MAD wasn't born yet in the 50s, and when people imagined an apocalypse it would involve the bombers that were circling the nations of the world like vultures, like in Dr Strangelove or, also like Strangelove, through "a doomsday device" (often through pseudo-science, think Cobalt Thorium G or the atomic bomb in Planet of the Apes 2 that would "start a nuclear chain reaction" (in what?) and blew up the whole planet (one bomb! Great ending, tho')).

    Since V-2s were developed in the 40s, people were aware in a general sense that long-range guided missiles, but that doesn't mean they automatically imagined the poxyclips being delivered through such long-range guided missiles. If you offered a solution of "one day we'll develop ICBMs and blow up the world with them" or "the Russians will have a doomsday device with bombs laced with Cobalt Thorium G" or "a steel umbrella of nuclear satellites will blow up the world" then they'll be just as happy with the vaguely scientific explanation as with the pseudo-scientific one.

    So who knows? More importantly, who cares? In general, in post-apocalyptic fiction, the way the apocalypse happens is secondary to the fact that it happens. Do you know who struck first or with what in Mad Max? Does it matter?
  14. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    Er, yeah, I know what B2 stealth bombers are. I didn't mean to appear ignorant of the fact that bombers meant for delivering nuclear payloads exist, since I'm not. I meant that I didn't see the point of delivering a nuclear warhead by plane when you have ICBMs.
    Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I believe cruise missiles are generally delivered by naval ships, not aircraft.
    Ah, that is something I overlooked. Delivering bombs by plane wouldn't be seen coming nearly as far off as an intercontinental missile. (No, I'm not being sarcastic, I really do overlook the obvious quite frequently.) That's how I'd imagine it happening in the Fallout universe... first-strikes with bombers, then multiple retaliatory strikes from different nations with long-range missiles.
    Well, yes, but just because it's a divergent storyline doesn't mean their progress magically halted with the sole exception of developing power armor, plasma and laser weapons, and fusion batteries. It seems odd to suggest that in the 100+ years between the point of divergence and when the nuclear war happens, they wouldn't have developed some kind of technology to allow long-range nuclear strikes.
  15. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003

    All cool and dandy, but there was no such thing as an ICBM in the fifties*. So no, you don't have ICBMS. Alsoplustoo, ICBMS are easily spottable, planes are not. Hence the point of the B2 bomber.

    We forgive you.

    Rockets were truly developed in gringolandia and sovietworld in the late fifties-early sixties, most of the work based on WW2 German research. There really was no such thing as an arsenal of intercontinental rockets by that time.

    Odd? As in "mutated chameleons ripping peoples' heads off in a radioactive wasteland"?

    No, it's the way the FO timeline was designed.

    *Okay, there were six Atlas-A rockets in 1959.
  16. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    But the WW2 German research was known to the public earlier, and there are exaples of guided rockets being used in e.g. Flash Gordon stories.
  17. Tandy

    Tandy First time out of the vault

    May 5, 2006
    About that nuclear bomber question.

    Afaik the real advantage of nuclear bombers is :

    First strike : they are hard to spot

    Second wave : Your silos may be destroyed but your bombers are in the air.

    But the utterly most important advantage of bombers is : They can be recalled while ICBMs can not.
  18. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    Alright, I got that, but again, the nuclear war in the Fallout universe did not take place in the fifties. The fifties were just the point of convergence, and I still find it a bit absurd to suggest that, a century later, they wouldn't have some sort of long-range missile system when they've developed things like vertibirds, powered armor, plasma weaponry, etc. Also, as Ausir pointed out, guided rockets were not an unknown in the fifties, even if the technology wasn't highly developed.

    Ah, having researched it a little, I was thinking of the Tomahawk cruise missile in particular, which is often fired from naval ships.
  19. cazsim83

    cazsim83 First time out of the vault

    Sep 18, 2007
    Didn't a lot of the tech like Powah Ahma and such come from the BOS? Was it developed by the techies while they were locked underground, or is it implied they already had it when they were locked inside?
  20. fallout ranger

    fallout ranger Vault Dweller

    Sep 18, 2004
    They already had it, thus the video of dudes in power armor executing someone.