Gun Control

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Funny. I think the same about you ;).
     
  2. Hoplite

    Hoplite Worth 1/5th of 100 grams of tea

    288
    Oct 4, 2019
    You feel that way about everyone
     
  3. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Watch out or he will write you a post about how there are Gay People on this forum for some reason.
     
  4. Hoplite

    Hoplite Worth 1/5th of 100 grams of tea

    288
    Oct 4, 2019
    Why would you encourage me like this
     
  5. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    There are plenty of gay people on the forum. That is no excuse for being a faggot. There is a difference you see.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    And even here there are faggots and faggots.
     
  7. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Because when you get a post from him that says There are Gay People on this Forum, You know? for no reason you too can share in the befuddlement and wonder.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  8. Hoplite

    Hoplite Worth 1/5th of 100 grams of tea

    288
    Oct 4, 2019
    Thank you for the warning
     
  9. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Crni

    I thought the whole point of free speech was it was meant for everyone. The reason groups like the KKK and many neo nazi groups were broken was not taking away their free speech. Trying to silence voices only makes them stronger. Kind of like nobody wants a martyr.

    Instead, they infiltrated these groups while encouraging the most crazy to speak out. This let them know who really needed to be arrested for violent acts and who are merely talking.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    No, you don't understand. That doesn't apply to schizos like Alex JOHNES. Since he is delusional he must be silenced.
     
  11. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Alex Johnes is just a simple water merchant peddling his goods like his trademark silver laced coital lotion. Why does Crni hate him so much?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  12. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    The children. The children.
     
  13. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Best not be homosexual chemicals in that water.
     
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What's it always with this "free speech" thing? With Jones everything seems to be an attack on Free Speech it seems.

    What does free speech even mean exactly? That you have a right to or some kind of entitlement to spread your message everywhere? Is a news paper forced to print statements from Alex Jones? I don't think so. Since when is Youtube, Twitter or any other "company" for that matter obliged to offer everyone out there a platform? That would be like claiming that the Disney channel is violating free speech because you can't access porn on it.

    See I would agree with you if this was a case about the Hustler Magazin being prohibited by the state in distributing their magazines - which Hustler won in their favour by the way.

    Ask your self this. If this was seriously about the violation of free speech or violating any amendment then why isn't Jones bringing this to the Supreme Court? I'll answer it to you. Because he would lose his case. It's as simple as that. This isn't more about free speech than a store owner throwing you out for repeated yelling of profanity in his store.

    Bullshit. You do not combat Nazis by giving them a "public" platform to spread their message and propaganda to everyone. If we talk about the KKK in particular I am not saying that Jones is a nazi just to make that clear. You do not violate their free speech by deciding that they have no right to spread their information trough large media outlets or broad casting it trough television shows. This isn't about the state stepping in and forcing them with a gun in their hand to shut up. But large media outlets, corporations and other large organisations have a certain responsibility that comes with their position. We're not living in a sort of "free" market of ideas where always the best message with the most factual source wins and you know that. There are many gray areas here and decisions can not be taken always lightly, I see that. But shunning and ostracising radicals like the KKK or Neonazis is exactly the thing you should do in fighting them. You do not fight them by offering them a platform where you legitimise them and their opinion like as it would be a normal message. And yes, the same is true for any other radical idea, be it islamic fundamentalism or stalinism/leninism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  15. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    So in other words the only stupid shit people are allowed to say is the stupid shit you hitched your wagon to?
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  16. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Crni

    And what happens when you silence them? They just go underground making it harder to catch them. Their.message doesn't go away.

    Hitler had radio. He had newspapers too like the Volksturm Beobachter. But that wasn't what really gave the Nazis their power. Remember, their putsch FAILED. It was other circumstances that brought them to power. It was people like Hindenburg and Von Papen who thought they could control Hitler. It was the stock market crash and useless Weimar government that let the NSDAP rise from the ashes.

    The single biggest reason why the KKK has been all but wrecked is because we actually LET them talk. This way, the masses actually got to see just how crazy they were. The FBI listened to who the craziest ones were, watched them, and then arrested them when they went to actually do bad shit.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You're missing the point here. The target is not make Jones "Go away". Again, the point is that he has no right to spread his message on every imaginable platform. Jones isn't a demagogue. He is a scam artist. He runs his channel with the intention of selling pills that don't work to gullible victims. And he's spreading misinformation and outright lies. Which some people took serious and lashed out at the victims of his lies. Why in hell should he be on Youtube or any other social media platform if the company feels that he isn't welcome anymore?

    To limit his reach, was the right thing to do here. Because it lessens the chance that he will cause more harm to others.

    Again. Nonsense. The KKK in particular was investigated heavily (!) by the FBI and other federal agencies in connection to several crimes and even murder cases - see the murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. The KKK faced a very huge backlash. Politicians and local business owners with ties to the KKK or even a member ship have been shunned and exposed facing heavy backlash in the public. There was a very serious fight against them which also included large corporations avoiding them like the plague - for good reasons. The hard truth is, when it comes to organisations like the KKK, you can not debate them. You can not argue with them. They are not a normal political party. And they shouldn't be treated as such. They are terrorist organisations. Like radical Islamic terrorists. You do not go and give them a "public" platform for their actions.

    When it comes to Hitler, propaganda played a big role in the spread of Nazi Ideology particularly in the beginning when the Nazis started to gain power but haven't consolidated all power yet, in 1930/31 the Nazi Party had a bit more than 11% in the Thuringian Parliament and political parties started a coalition allowing some Nazi members to assume office in certain ministries like the interior ministry, which gave them basically control over the police in the state. In less than 1 year they consolidated offices, pushed social democrats out, placing their sympathisers and nazis in office. In 1932 the Nazi party had already 41% in another early election. They used the state of Thuringia as blue print for taking over the Reichstag in 1933 and later years.

    The Propaganda the Nazi party executed during that time is exactly the reasons why we have in Germany actually a law concerning this peculiar issue known as Volksverhetzung (incitement to hatred).

    Section 1[edit]
    Whosoever, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace:

    1. incites hatred against a national, racial, religious group or a group defined by their ethnic origins, against segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or
    2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population,
    shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.[1][2]

    On 21 January 2015, changes to the former text of § 130 Sections 2 and 5, with Section 6 becoming Section 7, took effect following European parliament amendments.[4] At present these changes are not reflected in the English translation of § 130 as updated in the original current German § 130.

    This was decided as a direct result of the historical experience and the rise to power by the Nazi party.

    The United States never had to deal with this kind of level of extremism and Germany has a special responsibility here regarding it's history, so we have special laws with the aim to protect minorities here from such hate speech in Germany, knowing very well what this kind of speech can do to the public over time. Free speech is not going to defend you from those that actively seek to get rid of it and attack democratic institutoins and values. The Weimar Republic and the experience with the Nazi party trough out the 1920s and 1930s when they actually started to become a part of the democratic process while also making public statements that they want to get rid of democratic institutions teached us that a state needs a legal frame work in how to deal with extremists aiming to destroy the democratic state.
     
  18. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Wow, different countries develop uniquely based on their disparate historical circumstances! Read a book about the US Revolution sometime, maybe you'll get why freedom of speech, assembly and bearing arms is baked into the entire genesis of the US. Without those it simply never happens how it did. It's not Canada, or Germany, lotsa shit went down that you should know about before you assume things that fit your narrow narrative. You want nuance when it suits you (Germany's unique history!) but then have huge blind spots when it comes to things you don't.

    Also, is there a more overblown panic than the Klan in 2020? What's their national membership? Most of them are undercover FBI agents at this point. Let these, the self-proclaimed master race out in public and watch their shit just crumble under scrutiny.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    And then people say we Europeans are smug.
     
  20. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    "We Europeans" I dont think the rest of them signed up for you to be their spokesman.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1