@ Hardcore Fallout 1&2 Fan

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Falloutsurvivor, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    207
    Sep 26, 2008
    Good points. Ironically, we were given the chance to form closer emotional bonds with the dwellers in Fallout 3 yet the story never really capitalized on that early game investment.
     
  2. Humpsalot2

    Humpsalot2 First time out of the vault

    38
    Oct 17, 2010
    Ok now we are on the same page, the writers of the plot are not motivating us.

    "Save your village" is a good motivator for me, and not for you, as you said you would rather explore the wasteland.

    But on a plot argument, and not a gameplay argument of "interested in exploring wasteland" which is more motivating reason to you? "Go save your village(including your relatives, i assume)" or "Figure out why dad left the vault(i think a very very close word for word quest for first quest in FO3)"
     
  3. Humpsalot2

    Humpsalot2 First time out of the vault

    38
    Oct 17, 2010
    Yes, very good point, they should have capitalized on that, but make you care about more of the characters.
     
  4. Nalano

    Nalano Still Mildly Glowing

    240
    Jan 20, 2009
    I never once got the impression that I didn't know where I was or who the factions were. I just got the sense that I wasn't from New Vegas or the Mojave Desert, which would make sense, considering that I'm a courier on a caravan route.
     
  5. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    207
    Sep 26, 2008
    I think there is still the larger issue of Black Isles failure to give sufficient emotional connection to these motivators.

    "Save your village" sounds great on paper but my memory was I lived in a village full of pricks that didn't particularly elicit my compassion.

    "Save your vault" also sounds great on paper by I don't even remember seeing any of my cohorts in vault dwelling crime (and, of course, their is always that epilogue twist which sets up Arroyo in Fallout 2).

    Anyhow, I don't think anybody is saying that Fallout 3's premise was particularly compelling. It wasn't as bad as some make it around here but urgency wouldn't have served the sandbox very well for all the reasons you've already brought up ("why go explore when people are dying!!!").

    There point which I think got lost on the first page, however, is one of redundancy. The "urgent" premise has been done (twice, at that). I think New Vegas' premise works perfectly fine. I mean, if you were ambushed, shot, had your memories lost through the experience and left for dead wouldn't you be curious as to why?

    Having not bought the game yet I can't say whether the story arch is handled with a sense of grace but I get the impression it's probably left to the player to decide how meaningful that initial encounter is to them. Ultimately, it's just a set-up to bring you back into your life.. as a wastelander..
     
  6. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    The issue isn't so much that "save your vault/village" is a bad plot to start out with. The problem is that I didn't give a crap about anyone who lived there in the first place, and the game never really made much attempt to make me feel anything for them at all. In New Vegas, the majority of quests, side-quests and major characters are tied into the plot in one way or another, maybe just because they know something related to who shot you, or can shed information on why the world is how it is. That's called integrating the world with the story and characters, and New Vegas as a whole does a fantastic job of it.

    It's true that you don't have to chase after the guy who shot you - but whether or not you do, you're going to become embroiled in the game's politics one way or another, which is the real story. Even if you don't much care about the factions, you'll likely end up doing jobs for them anyway. Due to the interrelated nature of everything in the game, it's hard to avoid being pushed into the main story in one way or another. But then, New Vegas pretty much mirrors the "who gets control of Redding?" quest in Fallout 2, but on a grander scale, and the moral ambiguity of that situation was one of the more compelling parts of the game for me, so maybe it's just my preference to focus on the differences in ideology between groups rather than more conventional stories.
     
  7. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    I feel like I should respond to the OP.

    Here's the thing: I'm a cRPG fan first, aRPG fan second. So, gameplay-wise, it's understandable that I don't like FO3 too much since it runs like an aRPG and doesn't have that tactical twist FO1/2 had. The way I see it, Obsidian made very few changes to the way the game plays, and not anything significant enough to make me like it when I didn't in FO3.

    On the other hand I think many people will agree with me, that in terms of writing, quest construction, atmosphere and overall feel, NV is a step above FO3, and that when Sawyer calls is a "spiritual sequel" to FO2 he isn't lying. It's not perfect, but it's a significant improvement. That, I feel, will be enough for me to enjoy the game and finish it at least once.
     
  8. NCR_Ranger

    NCR_Ranger It Wandered In From the Wastes

    120
    Jul 11, 2003
    I'm absolutely loving New Vegas. THIS is what Fallout 3 should have been. I really hope Obsidian gets the contract to make Fallout 4. If you're reading this guys, awesome job! And that's coming from an old-school fan of the originals.

    Matt
     
  9. Syanlon

    Syanlon First time out of the vault

    36
    Oct 19, 2010
    I think the other games did have a better reason for you to have a Pipboy, this seems like a rather flimsy reason to get one.
     
  10. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Well, it's more like they "had" to have on in the game since that's how the user interface works. Frankly, the game'd lose nothing if they got rid of it and made an alternative interface. I'd probably be happy, too, cause the current one sucks.
     
  11. Syanlon

    Syanlon First time out of the vault

    36
    Oct 19, 2010
    I know that you "have" to have one due to the interface but the reason you have one is awful and kind of goes "you are a random nobody but look you are special and have a Pipboy!"
     
  12. TwinkieGorilla

    TwinkieGorilla This ghoul has seen it all

    Oct 19, 2007
    I'm glad I'm not the only old-schooler out there feeling this way. :wink:
     
  13. Innawerkz

    Innawerkz First time out of the vault

    88
    Feb 23, 2010
    Nothing wrong with finding reasons to justify evil actions. If that is what helps you break out of being 'you' when playing an RPG, then go with it. When I was playing the originals and decided to be a 'bad guy' I simply sketched a quick reason in my mind as to why I would have been chosen - same with the other roles:

    Charismatic Leader - obvious why he would be selected.
    Jack of all Trades (Med/Sci/Rep guy) - reasonable to understand why he would be selected. His high intelligence & versatility would make adapting to the new world easier.
    Bad Mofo - Mr. Take No Shit from No One? Easy enough to justify why he would be profiled to go. Assuming the Overseer had enough common sense about what awaited outside, it's understandable for him to pick the Vault bully to go out into a hostile land. Same reasons apply to a highly agile, quick-witted cleptomaniac character.

    The Courier allows even more open roles to choose from since you don't need to conform to some pre-conceived role (Citizen/Child/Chosen One - Overseer/Dad/Tribe).
     
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    While I would definitely love to see Obsidian to handle the Fallout franchise for Zenimax from now on, even getting to decide what engine and gameplay style they get to use, on the other hand I am not that sure if Obsidian under Zenimax's control would be a good thing.

    Hmm, perhaps rather than being bought by Zenimax, that they are a studio Zenimax contracts when a Fallout game needs to be made.
     
  15. TwinkieGorilla

    TwinkieGorilla This ghoul has seen it all

    Oct 19, 2007
    T'would be great and would certainly solve the whole "Mmmmmaybe this game should have been tested for a bit longer?" issue too. The fact that the game is playable at all for me after only a little over a year is p. impressive. I remember most people saying "I'll believe it when I see it" regarding even the release or finalization of the game given Sawyer and Obsidian's history/bad luck.
     
  16. mobucks

    mobucks woof Orderite

    May 22, 2010
    having had 2 bethsoft forum accounts banned around the release of fallout 3, id say im a hardcare fallout 1/2 fan.

    this game kicks fallout 3's ass. the writing is better. the world makes more sense. there are tons of references to the old games.
     
  17. Mapex

    Mapex It Wandered In From the Wastes

    107
    Oct 31, 2008
    Since the game is so old, I'll leave out spoiler tags.

    In KotOR 1, yes, you were a bad guy who "lost his memory." You are the tragic action hero, the Anakin Skywalker, the good guy who went bad to save the galaxy from the True Sith, who has a shot at redemption for your crimes.

    In Obsidian's KotOR II, however, you were also a former bad guy since you were a follower of Revan, the PC from KotoR I, and ordered the destruction of Malachor V. This time you are a more inquisitive philosopher who is trying to piece together exactly what the hell happened to the galaxy and what you can do about it, taking a more gray route in order to separate yourself from both Jedi and Sith propaganda so that you can think for yourself as opposed to blindly follow orders. In the process, you find out your morally gray mentor was using you as a puppet to achieve her evil goals, leaving you to have to decide for yourself, free of anyone else's judgment, what is the best plan of action.

    So the quoted poster is correct. In KotOR I you are lead to believe you are just an exceptional former-Republic soldier turned Jedi Knight hero because you don't remember your past whereas in KotOR II you know of all the evil you committed in the past and are being used to again commit further evil right from the start of the game, but this time unknowingly. Both had compelling enough stories to affect you at an emotional level because you are being betrayed left and right by the people you trust, but the former had a slightly more cliche story than its sequel.

    Back on topic though: I agree with the idea that FO1/2 weren't that compelling. I understand the need to save the Vault/village, but why do I care? I don't have any emotions invested into the NPCs from my homes because within literally ten minutes into each game I am booted out of the areas to find water chips and GECKs.

    On the other hand, even in FO3, at least I get to experience my birth, where Qui-gon Jinn shows his love for me. He does so again during my birthday, where he even lets me fire a BB gun and gives me my very own PipBoy. I get to experience hatred against the Overseer and Butch and even get a chubby from Amata. I have emotions invested in these people before I get booted out to do the lame "wahh my dad left me quest," but even then I am curious as to why the only person who truly loved me has abandoned me. What was he thinking? What could possibly be more important than his only son, his only remaining family member?

    I am not saying FO3 had a great premise, but it did focus on the building up of Dad as a loved one so at least there's a reason to go chase after him instead of screw off and run around Deathclaw sanctuaries with nothing but a Vault jumpsuit and a 10mm. However, yes, after you leave the Vault you don't really care much for the people you meet.

    FNV on the other hand makes all of the people in every single town attractive. I don't want to spoil much, but so far from the starting town all the way to Novac I have been emotionally affected by what the hell is going on and what I can do about it, either because I need to do these tasks in order to gain favor so I can continue seeking out my assassin or because the good, impoverished people I run into are in desperate need of help and can't fend for themselves. Usually it's the latter.
     
  18. Empty09

    Empty09 Still Mildly Glowing

    205
    Nov 26, 2009
    Just finished Fallout NV.
    Since I'm from the "FO3 made me discover FO1&2" bunch I can say that fo3 is a joke compared to New Vegas.
    It still has some big flaws but even so, when I look back at FO3 all I remember is all that 'gray' background where you kill yellow ogres. I've realized how awful everything was in FO3 when I played the classics. Enclave has no reason to be there...BOS too. Blow up Megaton ? All those retarded vault experiments? Super Mutant Behemots?

    Seriously, it's like FO3 was a fucking parody of all fallouts. For me, it never happened. I'm sorry because they could've used Harold in newer titles, but it's fucked up since 'SOMEHOW' he made it to DC and turned into a god damn tree.

    Mr House rocks. Played on his side in my first play through. Can't wait to replay the game.

    I still missed a lot of the game in the first run, I hope I catch up with it since I kind of rushed in to see how the main quest turns out. And it turned out alright.
    It's an OK game. And while that doesn't sound like much it's still 30000 billion times better than FO3.
     
  19. TwinkieGorilla

    TwinkieGorilla This ghoul has seen it all

    Oct 19, 2007
    This makes me happy. You are no longer a Fallout 3tard, son. +1000 XP.
     
  20. Nuka-X

    Nuka-X It Wandered In From the Wastes

    112
    Oct 9, 2010
    Nope, it's all there, I like it and FO3 is an OK game but yeah, the newest two games don't beat the first two, no way.