@ Hardcore Fallout 1&2 Fan

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Falloutsurvivor, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Yep, after the King told me what they are about, I started to not hate them that much anymore and actually did not exterminated them.
  2. Phias

    Phias First time out of the vault

    Nov 8, 2005
    I've played Fallout ever since the demo came out in 97. I'm an unbelievably huge fan of the series, lore, characters, setting and design. In many ways the game has changed my life, at least by opening me up to PA and true, old school RPGing.

    Fallout 3 was a pile of confused, pretentious rubbish.. it felt like a tech demo, the characters were horrible, the writing was horrible, the lack of consistency in the plot was horrible, the lack of reverence towards the original games was insulting. AND IT WAS BORING AS FUCK.

    After waiting since 1998, for a new "true" Fallout game, I can say that New Vegas is finally that. It could use some tweaking, granted.. but I think it's finally the game that we've been waiting for.

    I don't mind the fact that your character doesn't seem fated to start an epic quest to save his village/vault.. it's more compelling that your character is thrown into a huge conflict by being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    It feels like Fallout to me, the rugged Wasteland detail, the design, everything. Personally I think they nailed the retrofuturism concept, albeit a bit more subtly than the first 2 did. Surely a leap from Fallout 3, that just shoved 50s music and all kinds of shit down your throat without making it part of the setting at all.

    Too long didn't read?

    It's what I've hoped for, for years. I pulled myself out of the community because I was sure we'd never see another Fallout game, but if Obsidian makes the next proper Fallout release it'd be perfect.
  3. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 3, 2003
    Ok, let's get this over with.

    This is the wrong question. People are getting bogged down on this. Fallout: New Vegas isn't "the Fallout 3 initially promised to us". It can't be. We've passed that stage. Nor is it a brilliant game. It is only brilliant in facets comparatively to Fallout 3 because Fallout 3 did some things really, really badly.

    Nor is it repeating some of Fallout 2's mistakes (slow start, inconsistent setting) an actual excuse for it doing so.

    I think it'll take awhile before we sit back and judge New Vegas on its own merits. When we do, we'll see a game that does do certain things really well, particularly in overall world structure, complexity of conflict and motivation, but does really poorly on quite a few things (New Vegas makes no sense, lots of characters lack clear motivations, lots of quests are designed poorly).

    I've just passed the New Vegas hinge point and it's now thrown wide open and it looks like, much like Alpha Protocol and its C&C-node system, that this is the game's saving grace. That here is where it wants to shine, in an open world of options and consequences. If it does so properly then yeah it outpaces Fallout 3, both as a Fallout and as a game
  4. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Still Mildly Glowing

    Sep 26, 2008
    I really liked this guys point of view on the clothing issue:

    'Course, it doesn't heal all but it's a progressive way to look at it.
  5. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    No, it isn't. However I do agree that it's the closest to FO2 in content and spirit that we can get at this point.
  6. Hartigan

    Hartigan First time out of the vault

    Nov 23, 2005
    @Anarchosyn, I like this approach, the problem is the bonuses are somehow too much in most of the cases. I remember how exceptional it was to have a +3 STR bonus on Power Armor in original Fallouts but this is easily explained. I don't understand why a vault suit has +5 Energy Weapons, +5 Small Guns (or +5 Lockpick, +5 Repair) buff, and why would vault suit bonuses vary according to the number they have written on their backs.

    Anyway, I can see why wearing an elegant suit would grant you e.g. a Speech buff and e.g. provide some extra dialog options while talking with women (people think you're some kind of an important figure and you look, say, more attractive), I can see why having an 8 Ball would give you +1 to Luck (superstition), and why a Baseball Cap would make you more perceptive (though I guess this could just broaden your field of view so that enemies could be spotted quicker instead of a PER bonus), but then why some crude ranger armor gives you +1 Luck and an Unarmed buff (you can't learn how to fight by wearing a suit, come on), why must every piece of clothing have some kind of bonus and so on and so forth.

    There should be more penalties than bonuses, IMO. Still, I guess it's all possible to mod. :)
  7. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Some of the things I really hate is some of the map designs and the mix up of various background objects such as computers, machines etc.

    I was for example really looking forwards to HELIOS One.
    [spoiler:18a76b6ae7]But the maps of the main complex turn out to be rather small and empty, and the tower feels very hastily designed.
    However almost all factory settings are ugly in general, barely any machines or generators or anything that screams machine atmosphere[/spoiler:18a76b6ae7]

    Or when I found Hidden Valley.
    [spoiler:18a76b6ae7]The BOS bunker is also very bland and empty in general, some more machines or computers would really have lived up the place.
    I also rather dislike the mix up of Raven Rock style and Vault style stuff, I think it could have been done so much better.[/spoiler:18a76b6ae7]

    I visited places like Camp McCarran and Hoover Dam so I know Obsidian can do better, why did they drop the ball on these places so much.

    It makes some of Bethesda's maps look good.
  8. Nuka-X

    Nuka-X It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 9, 2010
    Good thing the game has original developers, because the game is just like Fallout 3 but upgraded from good to F'in awesome. I like the humor that's actually funny.
  9. TwinkieGorilla

    TwinkieGorilla This ghoul has seen it all

    Oct 19, 2007
    I mean, they had a goddamn year to make this game. I'm surprised they've done as much as they did (nay, impressed as fuck actually) Give them as long as Bethesda had with Fallout 3 and THEN lets ask this question.
  10. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I was disappointed by Hidden Valley as well.

    [spoiler:371837043c]It felt to me, as if everything from Fallout 3's Raven Rock was reused in there and damn, I just hated this place. It's god damn ugly.[/spoiler:371837043c]
  11. Deon

    Deon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 24, 2009
    I look forward to a mod to that. Its long corridors and labyrinth-like design made no sense, and there was barely any of "BoS bunker" feel. still I like the location on the world map :P.
  12. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 3, 2003
    Yip. Not to mention some places seem needlessly stretched to cover more ground, or maze-like for unclear reasons. Then get to the way threading your path through mountains sometimes works. Map design definitely doesn't seem to be the strong point.

    Hidden Valley was weird. Not just the map design, but everything about it seemed off. Its main quest was broken (first broken quest I encountered, surprisingly), it had an odd number of spelling errors or misread dialog lines. It's like it got tacked on at a late stage. Very odd place.
  13. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Wasn't broken for me / the way I have done it. You have done anything special?
  14. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 3, 2003
    No, but here's what happened

    [spoiler:998e9bdd69]I helped the head paladin plan his cute little coup. Got him all the information, only the first time I reported on the discs from the paladins sent out he just dismissed it. Then why I asked again after returning from the knights *or* returning from the Vaults (and thus finishing the quest) he'd go on a victory spiel. That part seems broken, both in that the exact same dialogue line done twice engenders different results, and in that he still wants to do his revolution after the big chief changed his mind. Also, if I did it before finishing the quest, the quest cut off, which seems more bad design (the jobs still need doing regardless of who is in charge).[/spoiler:998e9bdd69]
  15. willooi

    willooi It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Aug 23, 2010
    I feel the same way about the sentiments that some places feel unfinished, having just made it to Freeside and at level 25 spending 40 hours already. At the start of the game at Goodsprings and going past Primm, Mojave Outpost, Nelson and Camp Forlorn Hope etc I quite liked the design of the town and camps.

    But reaching the outskirts of Vegas feels empty...in particular The Kings building which has virtually no detail inside. I think they definitely rushed through this particular bit and it did take me out of the game for a tiny little bit after seeing Kings walk around aimlessly and sitting on their chairs with their empty tables. However it's only Freeside and the surrounding territory which seems a little empty to me. Which is bizarre because most of the other places I've encountered have great detail - perhaps it's the size of the building, but still, it would feel abandoned if it wasn't for all the NPCs in there.

    To answer the OP, what I love most about New Vegas is the continuity from FO2 - it;s everything a sequel needs to be. To use a movie analogy, FO3 now seems like what Terminator 3 was to the franchise - going against what was good with different ideas and inconsistencies, and New Vegas is like James Cameron coming back to make a 'proper' version - oh if only that was the case.

    *(As an aside, James Cameron used to be awesome before he started making formulaic family films based on Disney stories).

    Sequels need to honour what was sacred in the original(s) and to make those events relevant and remembered, and importantly - not change too much. And so far with NV I'm so impressed with all the mentions of and references to the previous games - it's bloody amazing:

    So far I've encountered [spoiler:a9c2ac365c]the Chosen One's wrecked Highwayman (whether this is 100% or not I don't care, what else could it be? :)), mention of Rose in FO2 and how someone shot her egg-producing Deathclaw in the eyes, meeting the Vertibird pilot who crashed in Klamath as well as another crashed Vertibird location, someone escaping from Bishop in New Reno, and even a FO1 reference with the Followers about someone named "Lou Tenant". [/spoiler:a9c2ac365c]

    It's little touches like this that really make it feel like it's adding to lore rather than going on a tangent and trying to reinvent what was perfectly fine before.
  16. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Well, if they didn't introduce the past of the West, then a lot of people would be scratching their heads trying to figure out what's going on. Like, you know, those for whom FO3 started the Fallout series, and NV is just a side-story.
  17. Fallout1FTW

    Fallout1FTW Still Mildly Glowing

    Oct 25, 2010
    Hello everybody, I finished the game two days ago and thought this would be a good place to write about my experience.

    I'm a hardcore Fallout 1 & 2 fan and expected a lot from this one since some of the original developers worked on it. Unfortunately, this game didn't deliver for me. What it made me realize is that Fallout 1 & 2 should be utterly respected for no game will be ever like those two.

    Near the end, the game turns into a FPS with a lot of action going around, not enough role playing. The Caesar's Legion is seriously undeveloped. I joined them only to be treated like an errand boy. The dialogs are nowhere near those of Fallout 1 & 2. The largest dialog I had was with Caesar when he explains his intentions and background. What about everybody else? They're just happy to be a part of the Legion and have nothing to add.
    Everywhere I went NPCs had little to tell, only a sentence or two each time. Sure, the dialog is better than Fallout 3's but that wasn't that hard to topple.
    The main story is nonexistent and was quite dull. Like a "make-your-own-story" story. Maybe the game would translate better in the original's style of gameplay but between the endless walking and FPS action there's not much room left for a good story to take place. The world is filled with huge areas with only 2 or 3 NPCs or real interest and then they weren't usually worth the effort you put in order to reach them. Why are the Super Mutants "on the move" again, they're really stretched this time around and I would gladly see their story put to an end. Aren't there any other intelligent mutants in this world except Super Mutants? Why add Marcus into the game when he has nothing to say?

    But there are good things such as Nellis Air Force Base which is a work of a genius IMO. That place has all the qualities that made Fallout 1 & 2 great. Its image is somewhat tarnished by bugs but nonetheless, the message gets carried over.

    In the end, it all came to Fallout New Vegas being uninstalled and Fallout 1 & 2 being installed (again).

    P.S. Bring back Tim Cain and ditch the posers!
  18. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Well, it's just a thread to keep you going and get you into all the side-quests. Maybe not superbly executed, but more similar to FO1/2 and definitely better to the linearity of FO3.

    I kind of agree. I haven't spent much time with them yet, however. And I do feel that the town they take over and burn down was one of the best moments in the early game.

    It does feel that they tried to design it like they did the original games. Walking is a bit too much in real-time FPS world though. I think, had they removed "you cannot fast-travel to a known location you haven't visited yet", the game would seriously benefit from it.

    Oddly enough, I found myself spending very little time in the "action" specifically thus far. A lot less fighting compared to FO3, a lot more talking. If they just had less walking, it'd be great.

    The Super Mutants haven't really been any sort of organized force since the end of FO1. They're just remnants, trying to look for a way to fit into the world/survive.

    SMs are artificially created so they're unique. *shrug* there's ghouls, "natural" mutations, but I guess that'd be it. What are you looking for specifically?

    Well, he had a bunch to say, and a quest to give. He doesn't fit in well though, and his whole story seems copypasted from FO2. It'd be better without him.
  19. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Indeed, Marcus was a bit meh. I thought he could tell me a lot, but he didn't. He was better made than Harold in Fallout 3, but still...
  20. Fallout1FTW

    Fallout1FTW Still Mildly Glowing

    Oct 25, 2010
    Absolutely, it also paints a somewhat different image of them because Vulpes Inculta talks like a religious fanatic there. However, later in the game when you meet him again he doesn't talk that much. (He becomes shy in Caesar's presence?) Which is unfortunate because I think his voice actor did the best job.

    Just something new and fresh. Original design documents had mutants with double DNA helix and lobotomized enemies (lobotomites).

    Hm, he was pretty silent in my game. I probably missed something there.