HELIOS One/ARCHIMEDES II are plot wise underused

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    When the previews first mentioned that the NCR was fixing HELIOS One in order to use ARCHIMEDES II against the Caesar's Legion, I thought I would run into this when I visited the location.

    However the NCR officer and troopers assigned to the installation seem to be unaware of the facility's weapon capability, and only one of the scientists seems to be somewhat aware of it but not exactly knowing what it does.

    It feels strange that after you have fixed and readied ARCHIMEDES II that you can not tell the NCR or anyone else about it.
    I think it could have made an interesting additional part to the power play plot.

    If you tell NCR about it they want to use the weapon against the Legion.

    If you tell Mr House about it, he might respond that he had enough political influence that he knew of the weapon but that he thought it was lost.
    He doesn't really like the idea of it up and running again but understand that the player could use it in his or her work for Mr House.

    When Caesar hears of ARCHIMEDES II he wants it to be destroyed as it poses a threat to his forces.

    The Brotherhood of Steel simply wants to keep it out of everyone else's hands.

    It would also be nice if you could use the weapon to seriously damage locations rather than just against a single enemy or groups of enemies.

    Once you have upgrades the targeting information at HELIOS One tower you would be able to perform strikes on; McCarran Airport, The Strip, The Fort, or Hidden Valley, causing severe damage and killing everyone there. (thus being vilified by that faction)

    Edit: grammar error
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I find it really a shame as I believe it could have made an impact on the end game.

    You would only for example be able to target locations once you have visited them, thus the Fort only becomes available as a target when you have been to the place and uploaded the coordinates into the ARCHIMEDES II targeting computer.

    And even if you destroy the place and kill Caesar, his Legate and his forces are still out there for the end game confrontation.

    The same goes for NCR and Camp McCarran, even if you destroy it there are still NCR forces on Hoover Dam, but perhaps less of them.
  3. Bad_Karma

    Bad_Karma Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2007
    It feels especially strange because the in interviews they seemed to highlight it a bit.

    But than again they also mentioned the Vault 21 quite a few times, and definetaley cut something there. Maybe even at Micheal Angelos next to it.

    At different points during the game you can find these 'yellow' on/off switches which they normally only used if there would be some door or other mechanism you had to active first hand. But it wasn't good for anything.
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Another problem I also had with HELIOS One was that the place was so poorly designed, the building and the tower.

    So much more and better could been done with them.
  5. Bad_Karma

    Bad_Karma Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2007
    Yes... this whole 'go down to get up again' seemed a bit forced.
    Also having a companion when, entering the tower (at least i guess it was there) trying to getting toward the computer to shut off security systems only to having your companions directly attacking it, was somewhat dumb.

    Also being able to disassemble the broken collectors without knowing what f, bugged me somewhat. I mean they look damn big and not exactly light-weight and you got simply put them in your pocket like in an adventure-game :/
  6. Thomas de Aynesworth

    Thomas de Aynesworth Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Nov 9, 2010
    It's weird how Bethesda and Obsidian showcased it in their trailers and previews so much.
  7. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Like you said Bad_Karma, some of the design is really weird.
    I had to occasionally leave my companions somewhere if I wanted to sneak or do a task like you describe as they otherwise go into combat if I brought them along.

    As for the inventory thing, heh, with all the stuff my character should be wearing on his body it would already be impossible to move.

    Indeed, that is why I would have loved to see those scenarios I described earlier, the player altering the conditions for the end game by destroying any of the faction's main camps/bases.
  8. generalissimofurioso

    generalissimofurioso The Hole Time Orderite

    Jun 17, 2007
    It's basically there for there to be a "WOW" weapon to appeal to the people who play games for "awesome" guns.

    This of course explains all the mods out there that make it an unstoppable death-cannon of rage because "It's a freakking [sic] space laser, it should be more awesom[sic]".

    The fact is that it's canonically a failure as a weapon due to either simply being ineffective (solar power isn't reliable nor powerful to make such a weapon) or simply run down due to it's age and lack of maintenance.
  9. Thomas de Aynesworth

    Thomas de Aynesworth Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Nov 9, 2010
    I agree with the Generalissimo. I especially agree with The Dutch Ghost. Fallout, as a series has always suffered from missed opportunities from cut content. I dislike cut content and missing/undersized plot devices, and I especially dislike when they're showcased to the public as something to draw in people/Fallout 3 fans.
  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    [spoiler:67faad953c]Seeing as you can already convince the Boomers, the Khans, the BOS or the Remnants to join you in battle, I honestly don't think this would have been a bad addition.

    Like generalissimofurioso wrote, perhaps because of age you can only use it once or twice to wipe out or severally damage a location, preventing it from being overused (though modders would probably alter that).[/spoiler:67faad953c]
  11. gumbarrel

    gumbarrel It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 18, 2010
    So you are OK with shoving 3 mini guns up your arse, hundreds of bullets and 40 Gecko steaks, but those darn collectors were too big and just didn't make any sense, damn it!

    Well, the trailers said it's a weapon, that you can use to kill stuff. And that's what it does, really. Just not on a global scale and not really that relevant to the plot. It does get it's own ending slider I guess.
  12. Bad_Karma

    Bad_Karma Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 17, 2007
    No, but i'm okay with shoving them up your arse, just joking ;)
    I never said the whole inventory makes that much of sense, but at least the miniguns weight something. Also the collectors/mirrors have the size of at least 3 miniguns, so for me it's still a bit more ridiculous than 3 miniguns or rocket launchers or anything in your inventory.

    As far as i remember your guess about the slides is wrong, but i myself could be wrong on that.
    Also they let it sound as if it was more important to the BoS and NCR. And sure they fought there, but i guess the NCR would have fought the BoS if they would have found them on a freakin' toilett - and i really don't think this toilett would have gotten some real importance because of that.
    Plot-wise this thing is simply underused.
    As is the Vault 21 and i would say even some more things.
  13. DForge

    DForge Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 29, 2006
    Using ARCHIMEDES to destroy BoS for House/NCR would be an interesting alternative... I'm tired of the old "shut their reactor" thing.. how many Fallout games were about destroying things by disabling the reactors? Nobody ever guards the mainframe and cares for some people tinkering with it. And the shutdown option is the first one offered to the player :D
  14. Texas Renegade

    Texas Renegade Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 21, 2008
    I would have loved to have been able to wipe out vegas by making house's reactor meltdown.

    one of my characters really sees no reason for vegas to exist.
  15. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I pretty much agree with the first post. First I thought that HELIOS One will be a really important facility, but it turned out to be just some early-game mini-location with one quest and no impact on the endgame.

    Also I didn't liked it, that after I've set up the power plant to work efficient, the NCR still didn't send more soldiers to guard it. Especially because Lt. Haggerty on the entrance told the player about it... "the power plant doesn't work cool, so we don't need many guards here"... and after I fixed it, nobody reacts on it in any kind of way.

    The really only reason for *not* activating ARCHIMEDES II is if you don't want one bad reputation point for the NCR...
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    heh you know after the activation of Archimedes either the NCR or the Legion should be chasing you like crazy trough the wasteland ... not to mention that like you said already the only thing you gain from the "power" in Helios is a good point in reputation.
  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Man, I honestly wish I could make what I suggested into a mod or that Obsidian put it in an official patch or DLC.

    And like Crni Vuk wrote, that the three factions start pursuing you if you use ARCHIMEDES II.

    But so much additional material would have to be made, new conversations, ruined versions of existing locations.
    Even new end game pictures such as one in which Lake Mead runs empty after you have fired at Hoover Dam.
  18. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    I thought about doing such a mod too, but I totally lack the needed skills for it. Good thing would be, most of it can be done via script and doesn't even need any new spoken dialogue lines... but still, new script for it, terminal changes, map changes based on triggers (you want to see that you blew up something, don't you?), etc.

    Also good: Most of the locations named above are in a closed enviroment. Mc Carren, as example. If you blow it up, all entrance points to it are closed off by NCR soldiers who block it, because place got destroyed, yadda yadda. And behind the big walls you can see lots of big, black smoke trails.
  19. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    That would have been great Lexx.

    Places like The Fort would only need a twisted destroyed radio antennae and smoke trails, with perhaps some fires here and there.

    But the Lucky 38 would have to be replaced with a ruined collapsed tower, with broken pieces around it.
    Closing the area off would be difficult as the Gomorrah is also located there. (the again, the place could have been blown up together with the Lucky 38 due to the proximity).

    The BOS' bunker in Hidden Valley would have to be replaced with a crater, with twisted fences around it.

    Should the player choose to destroy HELIOS One, the main building and the tower would have to be replaced with smoldering ruins.

    Man, such a shame Obsidian never considered this.
  20. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    We don't know if they never considered this. :p

    I wish we would be able to read some of the FNV design docs. I love reading design docs.