How would you make a fallout spiritual successor

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by ironmask, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ironmask

    ironmask Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    395
    Mar 10, 2018
    Instead of talking about what a perfect fallout sequel would be like or what would you do if you got to make a fallout sequel, how about we talk about what we would do if we made a successor to fallout instead. Like Atom RPG and Encased. What I have is a very basic loose idea and I still have to put much thought into it, but basically what I would do is instead of making it post-apocalyptic, is set my game in the far future where the setting takes place on an extremely hostile but important planet filled with very rare exotic but highly valuable resources that space empires and governments have fought over for centuries. In a war that has lasted too long between two governments, the two governments have decided to meet and finally settle on peace treaty and make a deal that should benefit the both of them. But with much debates and disagreements it obvious that these meetings are going no where. So it has been decided with the agreement of both parties that a foreign diplomat would be sent to see if he could help solve this dispute between the two governments, with the idea that the diplomat, being foreign would have no bias, so thous the most reasonable. I honestly have no idea where I'm going with the rest of this. The idea is that you are the diplomat and something goes wrong and now you have to explore this hostile planet while learning much of it's history, how the constant wars have effected the planet and the native aliens, and which government you should side with. While fighting off alien creatures and trying to stay alive. Later you learn that the planet use to be like a beautiful paradise, but the wars have slowly mutated the planet over the centuries turning it into a bizarre hostile jungle with many alien monster that have mutated along with it. Like I said, I still have to put a lot of thought into this. Instead of another cliche desert wasteland instead the setting will take place a jungle planet. Something like this.



    The gameplay will be similar to the first fallout, of course but instead of a perk system, I would replace it with a skill tree like atom. And that's honestly all I can come up with right now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  2. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    731
    Aug 9, 2017
    Yeah, I kinda can't see (for example) US and Chinese government agreeing to get foreign diplomat to handle their affairs on a planet filled with valuable resources.
    I'd propose that PC is instead sent by an international peacekeeping organisation (space UN) to end the conflict at any cost. It would also make both sides less willing to cooperate with you and could be a source of potential conflict.

    I'd probably go with sabotage- you're stranded on the planet and you don't know who you can trust. It also gives you a lot of room for narration- was it one of the fighting sides? Maybe colonists want to become independent? Your organisation wants to take over for itself and one of it's diplomats dying is a great reason to step in with their armed peacekeepers? Or was it some ecoterrorist trying to stop exploitation of the planet?

    Peek tree was definitely one of the weakest points in Atom, which is why they develop new system for Trudograd. It could work if you make varied enough.
     
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  3. ironmask

    ironmask Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    395
    Mar 10, 2018
    Honestly even I thought that idea was a kinda sketchy as I was typing it. I like you idea of the space UN, it makes the diplomat thing make way more sense.
    Not only is sabotage good with narration but it can also be an excuse for a low intelligence playthrough too. It would be silly if the space UN (placeholder name for now) sent a diplomat who could barely form proper sentences. So we just say the diplomat hit his head hard during a crash landing causing him to become retarded if the player only gave his character one 1 intelligence. It doesn't have to make the most sense, it's video game logic.
    The perk tree was not great, sure but I liked the idea. I would obviously have to flesh it out more for sure.

    I'm going to change some of my ideas. Firstly the thing about empires and governments fighting over a single planet for centuries. That idea seems silly now that I think about it. Even if the resources they're fighting over is rare, the idea that governments would spend a lot of money to go to war for a single planet is dumb when they could be using that money to trade for the resources that is being mined by the other instead. And what could be so important about this resource that could have governments fighting over it for centuries? Which is why I'm going to change this war from centuries to a few decades. I'm going to change the resources from being something that was always rare to something that used to common but is becoming more and more rare do to centuries of mining. This resource is similar to oil. It has been used to fuel many faster than light spaceships and has been used to power many machines and advance power plants. With both governments running out of this space oil, this would cause an extreme economic collapse. This could cause a resource war between the two governments. During this resource war many expeditions were made to find sources of space oil in which many failed. After years of searching, one expedition finally found a planet with a ton of space oil. This would explain why two governments are fighting so hard for a rare resource on one planet. And we can also say that their was a cold war going on between the two before the resource wars broke out to add more tension between the two factions. So I basically made the backstory more similar to fallout.
     
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  4. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    It would be set in Europe because that is the only place on Earth that truly matters.
     
  5. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    Video game adaption of the tabletop RPG Deadlands.
     
  6. Eshanas

    Eshanas Mildly Dipped

    559
    Jul 6, 2016
    I would keep it very grounded, very human. A lot of little background details would go a long way, from noting every major city was bombed/fucked over, to big surviving nations outside the blocs that went to war, stuff like that.

    But two things reign paramount:

    The moral theme that this is about humans deciding basically 'wtf do we do next?' The Master wanted to solve everything by making everyone a mutant, or breedstock, under his control. The Enclave wanted to wipe out every divergent human to make way for their humans. The BoS police and patrol to make sure no human has the ability to nuke the world over again. So on and so on. In my own research I have delineated 8 major forms of polity, divided into three 'modes' of operation (pacifistic, neutral/mainline, aggressive) and who knows how many combos can arrive from that - so there's a choice, a plethora, of experimentation going on and the conflict that arises from that.

    The second thing is that player agency can impact the world. Early in the setting, that's easy, finding the right armor and right gun can basically change the world if no one can stop you. Later on, it's more of being in the right place at the right time with the right connections, each making up for the other if need be. Say a army crossed a bridge - so blow up that bridge if you missed the army/couldn't prevent the army from forming up in the first place so they can't retreat that way, can't be reinforced that way, stuff like that. Being an agent or a free-hire can-do-it-all (Frontiersman for a provincial title?) comes into play then. Being part of a faction, even as a merc, gives you access, a stipend, the works.

    Mixing those two is what made fallout fallout, but let's be real: you're railroaded. You join the master in 1, most of it is in your head, no gameplay goes into it after you join him: game ends. 2 - you can't join the Enclave, at all. 3 - sort of did this better, you work for them in the most barebones way and then keel over anyway, BS barely changed that. NV and 4 - sort of the best so far to realize this, every major faction can be joined but some are far, far more fleshed out than others. I would have at least every faction have a strong base, questline, supporting material to feel real, and they're all in conflict so your actions can nudge the outcome to occur how you want.

    Note that's far different from the 'Fallout is a world where you can do whatever, wherever' mantra that has taken over, if I may be poetic, perverted those two prior themes. The focus is not to have the world be a sandbox but have your actions impact the world, which is not just dirt and earth but these people in tribes fighting over a sliding scale of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

    Everything beyond this is detail. It could take place on cut-off Martian or Lunar colonies, the Australian Outback, the interior of Africa. But those two core themes are what matters. The plot is simple: who do you want to win in this conflict? Here they are. Choose and plough the road for them. That, above all, makes a Fallout Spiritual Successor. World went to shit. What do we do now. What do you do now?
     
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  7. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Before the Outer Worlds was released one of my ideas was for basically Fallout set in space.
    Rather than fighting over the last remnants on Eargh and having a final War, the US, China, and other countries went into space to explore and colonize the solar system.

    There would be a lot of 50s movies and serials influences such as the remnants of an extinct advanced civilization on Mars, which technological leftovers would be used by Martian colonists to revolt against Earth and establish the the Martian Saucer Empire, oh and giant bugs
    Venus which would be a foggy jungle world full of reptiles similar to dinosaurs.
    The moons of Jupiter and Saturn with their own unique environments.

    And of course elements like big finned space rockets, space pirates, asteroid miners, mad scientists, and robot armies.

    The old Buck Rogers in the 25th Century RPG by TSR is also a big source of influence to this.

    The player would be someone who left the rich and plentiful but mundane life on Earth in order to become a spacer and find fortune and glory in space but somehow got involved in a plot that will affect all of the Solar System.
     
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  8. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Is this how the Orks named Terra?
     
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  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Crap, I forgot to spellcheck
     
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  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    As with Fallout I would like to subvert the tropes in some ways here and there not to make it a complete Buck Rogers/30s-40s-50s rip off.

    The mad scientist antagonist character in the first half of the campaign for example is revealed to be completely right about there being a threat to the Solar System with his colleagues and the authorities on Earth not taking him seriously when he presented them evidence.
    Not wanting humanity to be enslaved or wiped out he decided to create his robot army in order to take on this threat instead of waiting until the people on Earth and other worlds would wise up when it is already to late.

    The colonists on Mars who turned against the colonist administrators and rebelled have justified grievances against Earth. Their society's almost military like hierarchy and pragmatic mindset that leaves little room for error is the result of living on a very harsh world that despite a degree of terraforming and bioforming on the part of the colonists in general rejects human life. If not the environment then the local lifeforms.

    Still I can not help but feel that this is still quite cliche.
    I know tropes are not automatically wrong but if I ever wanted to make a successor to Fallout I want it to be special in its own way and I just don't have that feeling with anything I can come up with.
     
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  11. ironmask

    ironmask Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    395
    Mar 10, 2018
    Fallout was not that special ether. It was just mad max with a few 50's atheistics thrown in. The plot is directly from a cheesy 50's movie. Mad scientists wants to turn everyone into monsters! Don't get too worked on something being cliche. It's about well written it is.

     
  12. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    Also there is a lot of wiggle room to make something unique within the cliche.
     
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I know Ironmask and Dragula and I am my own worst critic, I just want something I make up to feel really special and exceptional before I am pleased with it, not taking any satisfaction with what I feel is lesser.
    I just hate feeling an imitator of others.
     
  14. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    At this point it feels like cliche is a dirty word and used solely as criticism, and saying something being different is better than what's usually done because it's different. In the end it's all about execution, regardless if it has been used a million times or very rarely.
     
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  15. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Skeleton King oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    You know what else is cliche? 90% of all media produced today. Star Trek was little more than a Flash Gordon ripoff with a more science based focus. Bionic Man was Frankenstein. Game of Thrones is the War of Roses. Walking Dead is Night of the Living Dead which is a little more obvious, but it shows how concepts can evolve and adapt to the times.

    Look at all the shows like Transformers or Power Rangers or Ninja Turtles. These trendsetters were actually ripping off other shows. As others have said it is about how you execute the story, not necessarily what it is about. I mean Terminator stole it's plot from a story nobody ever heard about.
     
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  16. Eshanas

    Eshanas Mildly Dipped

    559
    Jul 6, 2016
    This sounds unironically perfect.
     
  17. ironmask

    ironmask Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    395
    Mar 10, 2018
    I really do like your idea @The Dutch Ghost. I have always wanted a fallout game in space and Encased is the closet thing to that. Haven't played The Outer Worlds yet but from all the gameplay I have seen, it looks very forgetful and mediocre. Plus I just really hate that art style. All the post from the Codex make me want to play it even less.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  18. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    So I've thought about this for a while now, at first it would have been isometric, but I guess it could work in 3d a bit better (with a world map screen like Wasteland 2).

    I'd start the game with the player being a slave, and then escaping. You'll come to the first Town, at this point you have a crappy weapon, some crappy equipment and you're probably in need of rest.

    So you'll stay at the Town... Or not. Either way, a guy helped you escape and (well, he dies), but he tells you his Daughter is at that nearby Town.

    You meet her at the Town, and she's the first possible companion. However she has an attitude about her, making big powerful men hostile towards you, unless you can talk then down.

    Yeah, the thing about this game is that companions will make the game harder.
    One companion is kind of a piece of shit and owes money to lots of gangs, meaning you'll get a lot of gangs coming after you if you have him.
    One is a serial killer who is trying to turn over a new leaf, people will refuse to talk or sell to you, and some may even attack you on the street.

    The plot is years after a nuclear war, settlements have shielded themselves from each other creating isolated communities.
    Many factions are at war with each other, you soon learn that it's a conspiracy and that People are egging them on.

    Why are they egging them on? Well... Your boy Million hasn't thought that far ahead, so I'll just say it's because the whole world is a simulation and I wanted to see what you, the player would do. Also, you have no freedom, only under the rules I have given you and you'll never be able to live in the world of the game. Also the companions aren't real and they laugh at you for being invested in the game.
     
  19. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    Thank you all for your compliments.
    As Toront can back the main reason why I often feel bad about my ideas and concepts and that I am committing plagiarism or resort too much to cliches and tropes is because I really would like to follow the examples of creators of comics, books, games and so on that I admire and who created some of my my most favorite media.
    Because of that I am always measuring my own efforts up against such people and often feel that I can only copy or continue on what they have done instead of truly having a good idea that can match the quality of their idea or ideas.
    I don't want to take pride in ripping off someone else's creations like so many "creative" people do these days. I want to follow their example and find the source of inspiration that they tapped into.

    Even with my Fallout game ideas when I used existing concepts like say the Brotherhood of Steel I wanted to "add" to that, expand it with new material that truly feels in tune with the original which made me like it so much in the first place instead of doing what the Bethesda team did when they bought the Fallout franchise and turned the BOS into the white knights of the wasteland and later on tried to turn them into the space marines lite from Warhammer 40K.

    It genuinely actually makes me feel bad as a person when I have an idea that says way to much like what someone else has already done before.

    But my idea for a spiritual sequel to Fallout which handled retro futurism combined with atomic horror monster movies and a mad max apocalypse, would be a retro futurism or a 50s/60s take on future history set in space. Not necessarily space opera or planetary romance but elements of it combined with what was perceived decades ago as relatively hard science.
    A lot of the setting would perhaps resemble something from a Flash Gordon serial but somewhat supported with scientific principles and explanation like a lot in Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas was.

    Again that Buck Rogers in the 25th Century RPG by TSR is a big source of inspiration, perhaps a little too much which I acknowledge. The alien life on the planets and the moons other than Earth being explained as the result of advanced genetic engineering.

    So both an homage but also sort of a deconstruction. There is some clear good, some clear evil, but also a lot of moral grey in which sometimes the player's own beliefs but also what they think would work the best but is perhaps not always the most ideal solution for everyone.

    Like what Tim Cain wanted to do in the original Fallout, I don't want to build a better ray gun but rather explore how a society would turn out when interplanetary travel and colonization is possible and there is enough distance between worlds to give rise to unique cultures based on their own ideologies but also shaped by the environments they live in.
     
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