Idoitic politics says game is drug

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by woo1108, May 4, 2013.

  1. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
  2. BonusWaffle

    BonusWaffle Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Mar 6, 2013
    Whats disgusting is the people that fall for this type of power grab. Anything can be a source of psychological addiction, a bill like this gives a government power to regulate anything.
     
  3. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    It's a poor solution. Promote the idea of sports, studying, etc. so that people actually feel inclined to do something other than video games.
     
  4. Matthews

    Matthews It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Aug 29, 2012
    Religion are drugs
    Games are drugs
    Propaganda is drugs
    Guns are drugs

    It all depends on the viewpoint of one another. I personally think the "religious zeal" with guns is far more dangerous than gaming to be honest, even if gaming involves less exercise (you play a game with pixels, shooting pixels and looting pixels for example, not real people). Which brings two of my examples into play here.
    Would you consider giving a gun to a 5 year old on his B-day a good gift? Or would you not rather buy a nice computergame for your child? Especially when said child uses that gun (most likely by accident) to shoot his 2-3 year old sibling to death.

    But on the other hand, the parents of said children must've been raised with a slightly twisted view on things during their upbringing (considering they thought a GUN a suitable present for a CHILD!), which brings propaganda into this. Propaganda which was used by several religious, political and local faction leaders over the millenias so far to brainwash people to do their bidding (thus REALLY enforcing the whole "drug" point of view).

    So no, I wouldn't consider gaming to be a drug. If I'm wrong, gaming STILL would be a far less DANGEROUS drug than the others I've mentioned. Each and every example I pointed out above have one thing in common:
    They are not viewed upon realisticly.

    Games are for entertainment (always has, always will), guns are for killing (well DUH!), propaganda is for getting others to see from your point of view (offspring of religion, worked well in the course of history), religion to brainwash people to kill everyone who doesn't agree with you (propagandas ancestor).

    This is SERIOUSLY not intended to be flaming, it is just that when someone (in this case a politician) compare gaming to something far more dangerous and say that kind of crap, I go "all out" to tell them that they are wrong, and provide examples of why.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    you know, gaming or spending time on the PC can indeed become an obsessive behavior. Comparing it to something like Heroin or Cocain would be wrong of course. But saying it cant lead to negative effects is just as wrong. There are countless examples of kids, teenagers and even adults which spend to much time in front of the PC. That for it self is not even always the problem. The issue is when it effects your every day life, where you stop to care about any other activities, including your job, school, family and friends. Addiction here is a very broad term. But I think we should recognize it as an issue at least for some people.
     
  6. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    You know, I kind of understand the logic behind this. Video games can be very addictive, and some even exist around the premise of being addictive. It's easy to say for someone who doesn't have an addictive personality that it's all bogus, and I imagine it's even harder for someone who is in fact addicted to admit it's a problem. Very much like with alcohol - the majority of people can drink a lot without feeling it consumes a huge part of their life, and a person who does have a serious problem with alcohol will never admit it to themselves or anyone else until they've hit rock bottom and someone else wants to help them out of it.

    It's just a different form of addiction. It's psychological, not physical. And since it's a well accepted form of entertainment and social activity, the lines are blurry. I myself have struggled with coping with the real world and not putting video games (amongst other things) before everything else. I have wasted many many hours with video games as a sort of escapism. I realize that the problem isn't the video games themselves, but they have not in any way helped me in structuring up my life and getting me back on track. And not speaking for myself, there is a reason many people have lost their jobs and forsaken family, friends and studies for World of Warcraft. It's not because it's just such a good game.

    As always with addiction, the problem lies with the person and their current life situation. Even with physically addictive drugs, something has made them experiment with those. The reasons for such problems are many, first and foremost economical and psychological, and there are many things that can improve in our social structures to avoid this. But not recognizing sources of addiction and escapism will not improve anything. That said, forbidding people from doing something is a sure way to tempt them even further.
     
  7. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Get a grip.
     
  8. bonanza

    bonanza It Wandered In From the Wastes

    100
    May 1, 2006
    Get a grip? That was a balanced and well thoughtout comment you imbecile. Kiddies getting all riled up when their precious vidya games are attacked.
    Watch the testimonials of World of Warcraft quitters on youtube to get an idea what this game can do to peoples' life.
    I'm not advocating regulation as the best course of action, however denying that games (especially online-games) can be a serious source of addiction to many people, not just a few freaks, is ridiculous.
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Every hobby or interest humans have can become an addiction. People tend to see everything in very simplistic absolutist ways, in that just because they like games, they are pure and are blameless for anything.
     
  10. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Of course video games are addictive. So is eating, fucking, fighting, or running.

    What do all of these things have in common? They give you a dopamine rush.

    There's a reason why World of Warcraft is so incredibly successful at addicting players, and it's not because the gameplay is particularly good; but rather the perfectly designed drip feeding of 'upgrades'. You level up, get a new piece of gear, a mount, a pet, or an achievement and your brain releases dopamine which makes you feel good, and trains you to keep chasing that high (and paying your $15/month for the privilege). These tasks may not be inherently fun. They may even be incredibly monotonous and boring, but for the player they're all a means to that high. If you step back and examine the genre, you'll find they all have that same formula of [Complete task = Receive reward = Repeat]. Eventually the dopamine drip stops, and when that carrot on a stick is taken away and you see that you've been just mindlessly walking on a money-burning treadmill; You're officially burned out.

    Now you've also got microtransaction-based games, which are far more sinister. They provide the first few highs for free, and dole them out much faster than an MMO which quickly hooks players. Almost immediately they create pay-barriers that you must bypass in order to keep receiving your high at the same frequency as the beginning, which leads players to spend inordinate amounts of money on these "free to play" games over a very short period of time. The side effect is that you get burned out MUCH faster, but you may have spent a couple hundred dollars over the last couple weeks on said "free to play" game.



    Knowing all of that, I'm still strongly against passing legislation regulating video games as if they were drugs or alcohol. Much like sex addiction or food addiction, it's a personal responsibility problem that doesn't directly cause physical harm to others.
     
  11. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    exactly. To acknowledge the issue is the first step in the right direction. People should have at least the chance to seek professional help here.

    But I am not a friend of simply "banning" anything or to force some regulations on games, like they do in a few nations even! (China I think). Albeit, one should not forget that China, has a very serious problem. The people which "farm" in games, for 12 or even more hours, don't do that because its fun. Game companies like Blizzard have a very I might say dark side in their games, as the lives of thousands of people get ruined every day. Maybe things are different today no clue, but a couple of years back they have shown people exploiting street children to play World of Warcraft to sell income stuff to western players. It is, what ever if we like games or not, questionable. Remember that the next time you consider to buy stuff in games, an what you actually might support with that behavior.

    What has to happen is to educate people and parents. Gamers and non gamers alike. In my eyes this is not as serious like the Drug Cartels. For sure not. But that doesn't mean we should not help those people that suffer from it.

    There are a lot of sides to gaming today. Mainly because it became so popular. With world wide networks, very famous MMOs where millions of people enjoy them while some games even have connections with real money. Take Diablo 3 as the worst example here. Some people made quite a fortune just with playing Diablo 3. Others ruined their life by playing it.

    To say gaming would cant have any negative effects would be dagnerous and naive.
     
  12. Matthews

    Matthews It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Aug 29, 2012
    Didn't say that games aren't having negative effects, even coffee has negative effects if you drink too much of it. EVERYTHING is a drug in the viewpoints of others and if in the "wrong" doses.

    What I'm saying is that games aren't as lethal as the other stuff I've mentioned (neither is coffee, just took that as an example).

    other than that, I agree with what Crni says here:
    "What has to happen is to educate people and parents. Gamers and non gamers alike. In my eyes this is not as serious like the Drug Cartels. For sure not. But that doesn't mean we should not help those people that suffer from it. "

    EDUCATION is the keyword here. If it is done right and with no propaganda snuck into it (I consider propaganda to be quite a horrible invention), knowledge will get people far, and being able to better aid others.
     
  13. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Actually coffee can kill you if you drink too much of it at once. Even Water can kill by drinking too muc of it.
     
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    yes, but thats trivial and irelevant. Because thats not really a good way to argue. Although I think you do agree that it can lead to issues for some.

    And thats the point. In the end? Eating to much Salad could kill you. Maybe.

    But we can at least agree that certain things, have simply a higher chance to affect people. Like the Internet or the Computer in general. In postive and negative ways.

    The first step is to simply reckognize it as issue. Solutions would be the next step. And yes, I agree with you, there is a lot of stupid talking about it by people that have no clue.
     
  15. Matthews

    Matthews It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Aug 29, 2012
    Precisely, issues needs to be seen, solutions to be worked at. The problem is that people don't see that, they see "Hm, if this is a bad thing, we make it illegal to use". While in thought a good thing, it doesn't really remove the issues of them (ab)using it in the first place. That's why we need to work on what is the CAUSE behind the issues, and work to solve that, instead of banning everything to smithereens because people cannot see the deeper issues.

    That's how I see it at least.
     
  16. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    I'm even in favor of legalizing drugs, so you can see how pointless this discussion is for me.

    Why don't we go back to banning alcohol as well. And what about cigarets, those things not only can but will kill you of horrible diseases... and if you think games are addictive, guys, did you ever smoked?? I know several people who smoke and, man, they do really act like junkies, desperate to get to a place where smoking is allowed to get their next fix.

    Games don't even fall in the category of addictive for me, since you get bored of them eventually, even WOW gets boring, no matter how well dosed it is.

    I'm just glad I don't live in the US. No offense for those of you who live there.
     
  17. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Nope, it's Korea.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Could work with some, but I have serious doubts that it would be good for all of them. Although, the drug management in the US is extremely inefficient. I am talking about the way how the US manages their drug addicts. They should rather see it as sickness that can and should be cured instead of criminalizing the drug addicts, which is what happens in many states.
     
  19. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    Thing is Crni, that dug addiction (as a broad problem and not in every single case) is a product of dissatisfaction with one's life, and seeking artificial means to brighten it be it by producing dopamine by artificial means, or at least numbing the pain. So maybe society should first take care of people who by poverty or other reasons find themselves in unsalvageable situations they can only escape from with drugs, and once that's solved, make at least the most dangerous and damaging ones illegal to be distributed because of their poisonous nature.

    It's like everything else, they want to cure a disease by attacking a symptom.

    Me bad. Nevermind about that part then.
     
  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Oh yes, of course that would be the perfect solution. But its a pipe dream and probably not something we will achieve for now at least. Not to mention there is the question what you should do with those that are already drug addicts.

    See, the problem is when the society or government sees and treats them as criminals instead of people with problems then it usually makes the situation worse for those people. Of course if they commit crimes because of drug addiction then they have to face punishment, but also support for their addiction. Other nations do this a lot more effectively then the US, and in relation they also have a lower recidivism rate.

    Fighting the cause of drug addiction should go hand in hand with the treatment. But the reasons can be so many and so complicated. You have to decide it case by case for each individual. I am afraid that there will be no "cure them all" formula by simply saying that we have to "improve society", because that is a statement that can be true for almost all of our problems, be it drugs, crime, poverty or violence.