Impressions thread for negative impressions

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by 3rdRate, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. 3rdRate

    3rdRate First time out of the vault

    8
    Nov 18, 2003
    I think it was in Paradise Falls. A girl was coming at me with a sword while wearing a pink dress. I had power suit armor and was blasting her away at point blank range with my minigun as she was hacking away mindlessly. And yet she was doing more damage than I was. That's about when I realized what a dumb f9cking game I was playing.

    I just finished this, and I'm not going to bother with the black text. Major spoilers follow.

    This game has zero plot, zero story, zero substance. It's not like an open-ended game that seems to have an infinite number of possibilities - this game has nothing close to that. What is the story again? Something about purifying water? It's about as interesting as Indiana Jones final revelation: "The treasure is knowledge! Knowledge is the treasure!" And an evil computer that's taken over an army to eradicate the wastes? And put the trusty ol' recycled FEV in the water supply? That's it? After all this, just a recycled F2 plot? I just careened through the end of the game post-Vault 87 in about 30 minutes or so - what a miserable act 3.

    As a shooter, this fails. There are a billion better dumb mindless shooters out there whose game mechanics, graphics engines, and AI are far superior to this. So obviously I'm not playing this for a shooter. There must be something more to it, perhaps some level of intelligence?

    Complaints:

    1) No towns larger than the starter, Megaton (don't even try to suggest DC is a town) (Things that make you go "huh?" #1)

    2) Why do I have to find an unowned bed to keep going back to sleep? Why can't I just [censored] sleep anywhere? And why, when I "wait," doesn't it count?? (Things that make you go "huh?" #2)

    3) If this is so open-ended, why can't I kill everyone I feel like? For example, in real life, when that douchey little kid tells me I can't come into the Lamp Light caves, I'd blow his f8cking head off.

    4) Why do quests seems SO unfulfilling? Perhaps it's because of the zero sum gain you get out of it. My favorite miserable quest ending is when you find out that Lucy's brother ATE HER FAMILY (Things that make you go "huh?" #3,4,5,6,7) because he's got some sort of psychological condition, and has since joined a vampire clan, except they're not actually vampires, and they're not that bad either once you come to a deal, though it's important to note that they can only guard that town on the bridge when the sun is down, meaning they're pretty much useless (things that make you go "huh?" #8,9,10,11)...After all this, Lucy's final response is: "Holy Christ, my f9cking brother ATE my [censored] family? Holy God, life has lost all meaning!" Just kidding, of course. "Thank you for helping out. You've made a real difference." WHAT????

    5) Religious fanatacism that's NEVER fleshed out. Those worshipers only exist in Megaton? Wow, creative. Just like the cults in F1 and F2 that presented a major adversary in addition to the main enemies.

    6) Major, major PC version problems. The dumb game crashes all the time.

    7) Was anyone really surprised when the president turned out to be a computer? I was waiting for my character to wake up and go "What a horrible nightmare!"

    8) Horrible horrible AI. My favorite experience was when the ultimate major huge enormous Super Mutant outside the radio station couldn't figure out how to get me as I shot him from under the platform, and just kept running at me like a runner on a treadmill. His expression was almost one of anguish at having to follow the terrible coding.

    9) A main plot that is thoroughly 1st draft. You're game is only as interesting as your antagonist. I have no idea why the Enclave is bad. Oh, sure, if I played F2, I'm fully aware how horrible and xenophobic they are, but in this game, you're basically asked to assume that the guys kidnapping you are bad. It's sort of like in Tomb Raider the movie, when the Illuminati want that bizarre clock-slowing-down device, but it's never explained why it would be bad if they get it. Oh, sure, they're they're Illuminati, and we know from past experience that the Illuminati generally want to do bad things. But is it that difficult to remind us how evil they are? Frankly, the Enclave doesn't seem to bother anyone but me throughout the entire game, and I can be pretty annoying at times.

    10) What the hell happened to thinking mutants? Besides Fawkes, the game is devoid of them.

    11) Could anything be more mindnumbling boring than the DC run? Ground level, random supermutant attack, enter subway, random ghoul attacks, exit subways, run three blocks, random super mutant attack, down in the subways, random ghoul attacks, up above again, random supermutant attack....REPEAT TIL YOU SNAP GAME DISCS IN HALF.

    12) If you're going to make a game without a single likable NPC, can you at least give us the ability to kill them?

    13) Zero mystery. There is no mystery in this game whatsoever. You never get hints that something insidious is going down. You don't see the enclaves effects slowly building up across the wastes. Every single boring, mindless shoot-and-loot quest could have been made infinitely more interesting if there had been a connection to some greater whole. If the slavers were afraid of the enclave, for example, and were being hired to round up people for tests. Or if the supermutants were progressively getting more perfect as you get closer to the source. Nope, instead, it's a stationary world where nothing changes. Even the random tidbits on computers were generally boring. Never thought I'd say this, but the computer entries you occasionally read in Doom 3 were insanely more intriguing than anything in F3.

    14) I die at the end? Wow, nice and cliched. I don't even fully understand why I ran in and turned on the purifier. I mean, couldn't this wait? Couldn't we just take a breath, kill off every one in the enclave, make sure the water purifier is secure, get a decent radiation suit, and turn the thing on WITHOUT dying? And if this is the case, why couldn't I just send Fawkes in? He owes me one, right? What a dumb, dumb ending.

    15) Why is the BoS so ghetto? They feel like a group of stragglers who seem to have slightly better tech than other people. Boring.

    Fallout 3 reminds me of a low budget movie that was written around a location. For example, let's say a bunch of students are given a warehouse to shoot in. The movie's OK, and the warehouse looks great, but after a while, you start to realize that the whole reason the movie exists is because of the warehouse. In the same way, the whole reason Fallout 3 exists is the art design. It's like the writers were handed a bunch of amazing conceptual drawings and told to write a story. It's hard to do this, which is why you come up with silly water purifier plots. So much of the game was wasted, from the History and Tech museums, all presidential monuments...

    Games should not be written by the art department; it generally results in beautiful vistas and amazing landscapes with zero narrative substance.

    This game really killed me. It has nothing to do at this point with it NOT being F1 or F2. Frankly, when the game started up through when I left Megaton, I was actively looking forward to Fallout 4. Screw it. Bethesda did the same thing with Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth (beautiful environment, horrible horrible story), and they should be ashamed.

    There is NO reason why this game wasn't Half-life 2. Frankly, Doom 3 was a way better sequel. It's sort of like when President Eden (or was it Autumn?) says "The good guys won..." except we all know that by "good," he actually means bad. The bad guys won on this one, and it's pretty depressing.
     
  2. Frisca

    Frisca First time out of the vault

    22
    Nov 1, 2008
    *Claps*
    I did not have the stomach to finish it. Explored about 1/8 of the map in combat armor and Assault Rifle then went to Rivet, did the android quest and got the perk+ plasma rifle.
    The combat put me off big time. I do like shooters, ones with good story. I loved and still do COD4.
    I get 0 satisfaction from this one. I got some at start but then... nada. Each combat is a question of "will I have to use stims" or not? I'll keep the game installed and hope the modding community will do something nice.
     
  3. [ION]Dictator

    [ION]Dictator First time out of the vault

    5
    Nov 9, 2008
    *Claps so hard his goulish hands fell off*

    Finally someone is able to exactly say what's wrong with this game.

    I accually bummed out on the fact you couldn't shoot a rat in the groin (like the poll many months ago). After playing the game I suddenly realized that I didn't find any FREAKING rats.
    The worst part is, Blizzard announced not so long ago that Diablo 3 would be Iso-Metric.

    Fallout 3 was by far the most depressing game I ever played.
     
  4. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    You showed us good points, and I have the same feeling about this game as you.

    I've got bored of this game after a while (after James was killed), and maybe I would finish it if I had a better computer :P
     
  5. Frisca

    Frisca First time out of the vault

    22
    Nov 1, 2008
    HAHAHA! VERY GOOD point dear sir! One of the most played games in history (Diablo 2) and one that will top this game in sales many times over (Diablo 3) IS isometric. Did not think about that. VERY very good point when people say that isometric games are "outdated". I will sure use this argument whenever people bring that up.
     
  6. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    And Bethesda will be like "Soo...we were wrong..."
     
  7. Roflcore

    Roflcore Mildly Dipped

    581
    Nov 2, 2008
    1.) is the worst for me. 130 "Points of Interests". We shall call them "PoE" - "Points of Emptiness"
     
  8. zioburosky13

    zioburosky13 Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 24, 2004
    Re: Just finished...What a waste of time.

    Some of the developer of FO 3 are bunch of fresh graduated newbie.

    Maybe that explain the quality of the game.
     
  9. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Disclaimer: Random rant of an old crock, not directly related to thread or quoted posting, "we" is a placeholder for "I and likewise feebleminded folk", "you" means "you ignorant younglings who think i'm senile because I don't like Fallout 3" aberant grammar is a sign of individuality, senility and agitation :wink:


    Lol, lucky you...

    The most depressing game *I* ever played was Pagan/Super Avatar Brothers. It was such a letdown, that actually claiming that there ever was an eight part of the Ultima series is unthinkable.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually like the Crusader games which used the same engine and gameplay, and still suspect Interplay, to have played Crusader intensively before creating the laser/plasma/explosion death-animations for Fallout, but Crusader never claimed to be an RPG. It was advertized for what it was: a game in the mythical genre called "Action Adventure", where you get quests to kill stuff, kill stuff and solve simple puzzles on your way there, kill some more stuff, get simple side-quests, kill some additional stuff, finish your operative by killing stuff, and be rewarded with better means to kill stuff.



    The problem I have with those "Next Gen RPGs" is the same I had with Pagan being an Action-Adventure with Jump&Run Elements 14 years ago. Just that the travesty is on a much creepier scale today:

    Those games don't just claim to be something they aren't, they don't just disappoint the old fans, Fallout Tactics did that too (Although it was always advertised as a tactical combat game) Battlespire and Redguard did that for the TES series (although they were advertised as Action Adventures)

    Fallout3/Oblivion boldfacedly claim that they're RPGs, and attract a large fanbase of people that actually don't like RPGs. Now we have an ever growing bunch of Action-Adventure Fans, claiming their favorite game is the best RPG ever, and those who disagree are too stupid/stubborn/nostalgic/old/biased/intolerant/whatever to realize the truth.

    For some reason there are shoter-style-commercials for FO3, that state at the end, that some magazine or the other choose this game to be "the best RPG of all times". Hello? Have those "reviewers" actually ever played an RPG? Heck, Deus Ex claimed to be a shooter and is a better RPG than Oblivion and quite certainly FO3 as well.



    So what does a shooter-fan who suddenly discovers his love for RPGs expect? Does he really think he didn't like previous RPGs just because of the "bad" graphics? Does he really think the traditional RPG fans don't like shooters just because of the good graphics?


    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because they're top-down, the majority of traditional RPGs was at least partly first person.

    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because they're turn-based, some of the best RPGs ever were real-time, the (arguably) best RPG ever - Ultima 7 - even was realtime *without* pause!

    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because of the bad graphics, in their time they actually had great graphics, if we were disgusted of graphics there still would be a large market for text-adventures (the precursor of computer-roleplaying)

    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because of the violent graphics, heck, the european versions of FO1 had no gore, and still became cult, long before we realized that the Americans got something we didn't.

    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because of the setting, it's not very well fleshed out anyway, and at least in Fallout 2 the self-irony actually broke the roleplaying-atmosphere.

    We don't like Fallout 1+2 because of immersion, when *you* get immersed in a traditional role-playing game you're fit for the psychiatrist.

    We like Fallout 1+2 because they're RPGs. Let's spell it: Role Playing Games, they managed what several generations of CRPGs did only scarcely: Transfering the RPG to the computer, while preserving much of the P&P feeling, giving you not only freedom of movement (something Ultima was famous for) but also freedom of choice, without the bitter taste of indifference games like Arena and Daggerfall left.


    This is why all TRPG-fans like Fallout, some of us don't really like the setting, some don't even appreciate the humor, but the roleplaying is unequaled.


    Some of us actually like Action Adventures, and yes Oblivion and most likely Fallout3 are good Action Adventures, but we hate it when people tell us that we are living in the past when we don't like Oblivion or Fallout 3, or are simply too old to accept change or enjoy gaming anymore. Wake up, It's not that there are no high-budget RPGs today, NWN2, The Witcher, Drakensang... Sure, they are no Ultima 7, no Dark Sun, no Betrayal at Krondor, no Realms of Arcania, no Planet's Edge, no Starflight, no Planescape Torment and no Fallout1/2, but they are RPGs, as opposed to games like Thief, Daikatana, Oblivion, Bioshock, Stalker, Hellgate London and Fallout 3 which are not.

    Joining the hype or letting you alone with in your brave new world where subtle shooters and action adventures are called RPGs, is the worst thing we can do, it's actually showing the producers that yes, the time for games that meant several years of work for talented storywriters and scripters are finally over, that there is no market for games that bind the gamer for a year or longer, that today there are only two relevant genres: Shooter (FPS) and Shooter with Dialogue (RPG)
     
  10. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    Ultima Raider was even worse.
     
  11. [ION]Dictator

    [ION]Dictator First time out of the vault

    5
    Nov 9, 2008
    Wouldn't you like to see their faces when you use that argument.
    I heard this and my first reaction was like Public's. That they tought the game world had evolved past a point were Iso-Metric was still doable and would generate any money at all. Man would I like to see them get proven wrong.

    @zioburosky
    Those newbie's must have a competend project leader (at least I hope so but after seeing both Oblivion and Fallout 3, I think not). I mean, Bethesda's pomping milions in games like these, wouldn't they want competend people?

    @JOG

    I'm actuly not familior with the Ultima series, but I feel with you.

    You make a compelling case. So this would make Doom 3 a RPG to, cause at 1 point you'd have to make a decison to send or not the send the message.

    What about the fact that there isn't a bit of humor left that was in F1/2. I haven't seen a single reference to something somewhere at anytime troughout the game and I used to love those special encounters with Monty Python, Doctor Who and The Hitchhickers Guide. I'm missing dosens of critters, those long documents about FEV and such and the size of Megaton, yeez not even a Hub sized town in the game.
     
  12. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    Also: Boyarsky is working on Diablo 3.

    I think that's a good formula: classic game + isometric + Boyarsky.

    It's the only future game I am planning on buying. And I'm not even that much of a Diablo fun. Go figure.
     
  13. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    Also, most of the locations in Fallout isn't 1:1 representation of the Fallout setting. For example Vault 13 has 100 living quarters in fluff and less than 10 in game.

    I think that a next gen game should have a 1:1 Vault. It's more immersive.
     
  14. Yem

    Yem First time out of the vault

    23
    May 7, 2008
    When i got to megaton i thought about it like its some kind of shady sands or klamath, starter /tutorial village...

    Anyway i agree with most points stated in this thread ...
    Brotherhood was boring, (and power armour training was retarded by the time i got it i had fully repaired set of EVERY power armour in gamel;/)

    Main plot = childish...hard to play bad ass as 19 years old who's looking for dad... (and 80% of main plot npc's call player a kid)

    Economy = bad... At beggining its ok, but after like 20hours played (ive passed whole main quest) i had 9000 caps and absolutly nothing to spend them on...best weapons in game cost like 300-500 caps...and best armours in game are free

    and "The end" without a boss fight ? n/c
     
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    It wouldn't necessarily have to be a boss fight that could only be 'fought', but perhaps a meaningful dialogue to convince the enemy that he or she is wrong in thinking.

    That conversation ended up retarded if you tried to talk it into destroying the Enclave.
     
  16. DOF_power

    DOF_power First time out of the vault

    91
    Oct 29, 2008
    What exactly do bigger towns or main story or battle system have to do with an RPG ?!

    You could have an RPG in which the player controls a patient in a straitjacket locked up in a hospital's psychiatric ward. All the player can do is talk to other people, and the game ends when the doctors proclaim him cured and allow him to leave. The whole game then would be about convincing the doctors that you are sane, solely through dialogue. No battles, locations, epic story, no nothing.


    Diablo is a hack and slash game, not an RPG; Fallout 1 and 2 where turned based strategy games with rpg elements. Fallout never had sales anywhere near the level of Diablo; and by this I suppose that Wii Sport is the grand model.
     
  17. Misanthropicus Grandiosus

    Misanthropicus Grandiosus First time out of the vault

    25
    Nov 6, 2008
    If you managed to have the doctors proclaim you cured through the dialogue of a dumbass that would never even remotely be convincing would that make a good game to you? The main problem is not with the battle system but with the RPG part being shallow and badly written, and the world being completely empty and chaotic... as someone else said it all feels like they dropped the nukes only a few weeks earlier and everyone was still in chaos... but even that theory doesn't stand cause if so, then energy weapons wouldn't be scattered -everywhere-...

    Case in point or point in case as you wish, this game is just hollow... (And I kinda liked VATS and the battle system alltogether, aside from it's hundreds of bugs.)
     
  18. Yem

    Yem First time out of the vault

    23
    May 7, 2008
    bigger towns = more npc's = more quests = more decisions = rpg

    main story = game master's main plot = rpg

    battle system = dice's = char stats vs certain challanges = rpg

    :>
     
  19. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    Hahaha, excuse me when I post the shocking truth that a defining element of an RPG is its battle system. What do you think all those numbers would do if they didn't apply to combat? Not much at all, no matter what your opinion of what makes an RPG is, you can't deny that the legs of an RPG are its combat, otherwise it's just an adventure game.

    It's one of the biggest reasons why games like Diablo are separated from Eye of the Beholder, at the end of the day they both are centered around killing monsters, but one is entirely more complex and full featured than the other. EotB is considered a defining RPG, while Diablo is considered a defining action RPG.
    Where do people get the idea that combat has absolutely nothing to do with the framework of an RPG? It's probably one of the most important elements.
     
  20. DOF_power

    DOF_power First time out of the vault

    91
    Oct 29, 2008

    Decisions/choices/consequences are indeed what make an rpg; but more npcs don't necessarily mean quests with decisions/choices/consequences; half the quests in the previous games were silly fetch/kill quests.


    main story = game master's main plot = rpg;
    NOPE


    battle system = dice's = char stats vs certain challenges = rpg;

    NOPE, stats and rolls don't make true rpgs, usually they make "dungeon crawlers", turn based strategies, hybrid turn based strategies with rpg elements (Fallout 1 and 2).