Is F3 a part of the Fallout canon?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Miwenskee, May 25, 2010.

  1. Miwenskee

    Miwenskee First time out of the vault

    Apr 5, 2010
    So I had this conversation with good old Jax (wherever you are, show yourself! :D ) and the thing is he's so against the idea that F3 has anything to do with the previous games that he actually tells me F3 isn't even a part of the canon. Although I do agree the game is really, really different from the old ones and is surely a disappointment for many, I still think it's a part of the canon and there are two reasons for that:
    1. Although the plot isn't related to the ones from the other games, the game still follows the main storyline and might as well be a kind of a sequel since the events in it are among the last in the storyline by far.
    2. The current owners of the fallout trademark have made this game and if they say it's a part of the canon, I don't think anyone can argue with them.

    Jax on the other hand states that it's the fans who decide whether the game is a part of the canon or not and if the majority hates it and doesn't want to accept it as such, it isn't.

    So, as a young fallout fan and surely a fan of the canon more than of the games themselves, I ask for the forum's opinion.

    PS: I really wanted to add a poll here, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I would really appreciate it if the admins/mods could help me out here.
  2. cratchety ol joe

    cratchety ol joe Mildly Dipped

    Sep 2, 2008
    well I'll jump in here (for fear of the whole thing being sent to the VATS)

    I think NMA is quite one sided when it comes to FO3. but here's my views and thoughts

    I found Fallout through FO2... then Tactics, then Fallout, I've replayed FO2 and tic-tacs several times, and although there are some niggles in FO:tippytoes, generally I openly accept Tactics to be cannon, FO2, cannon and very much FO:1 cannon. For me FO one and 2 are the writers of FO history, and largely in part to the MASSIVE gap that followed there is a lot of 'fannon' that I would consider 'true'.

    Fallout 3 for me does contain fallout references, but is not what i'd consider cannon in true. I'll outline below:

    1, the 50's thing was pushed too far.

    2. Vault variation: I had come to enjoy the rigid unbending Vault idea and style, in previous FO games (probably due to technical limitations) the vaults all had the same layout, the same features etc.

    3. BoS stray too far from what I'd envisage them to be based on previous experience. They're too openly public in their actions in FO3, even in FO:thumbtacks when they're forced to turn to open recruitment they remain a cut of and distanced group from 'the wasteland'

    4. The shocking level of insulting interpretation of wasteland factions/persona ... Super Mutants, that pose no real threat, cannibalistic?? raiders, Enclave BECAUSE they're there... just everything was turned into a marshmallow version of what previous games had built them to be.


    Beyond that FO:3 abused concepts of the fallout post-apoc ideals. This mostly comes down to the game being so player-centric but the nub of the problem is the very 'design' and writing of the game which dont lend themselves to let the hardcore fans believe that it is a part of the cannon.

    Sadly you are right in that; as the 'rights-holders' they pretty much have a 'we say so' capability on what becomes cannon officially. but for me as a fallout fan here's the shit that ain't sticking:

    1. aliens... what a fucking awful DLC.
    2. giant nuke throwing robots... just... fuck off...
    3. Oasis. NO NO NO NO NO!
    4. Megaton, shitty shitty shitty 'town'
    5. Little Lamplight - Poorly executed.
    6. President Eden ... "please blow up." ... "yes, ok"

    I just realised I could go on for a while... but in essence FO3 just doesn't sit right in the guts of those that for MANY years have had a damn good idea of what post-apoc Fallout is all about. Its a game aimed at the masses and it has no room for the 'followers'.
  3. Silencer

    Silencer Night Watchman Staff Member Admin

    Nov 7, 2003
    Quite more significantly than FOBOS, I'd reckon.
  4. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    From the point of view that betheseda are the new share holders and that "I say so" thing miwenskee you have a point, but that point is not enough to make F3 a canon. There are a few moments where F3 tries to overwrite the canon (the initial fallout games in my opinion) it's not because of my skepticism towards F3 that I would not accept it as a canon, it's that fact that they changed a lot of things and I believe those things are also part of the canon. I wont let some people change the good image of the fallout universe that I have in my mind just because the bought the right to say so. Even if by law this is the new canon. Lets see that new canon in law against all the fallout fans that say otherwise.

    I don't think F3 would be canonized by the gamers, even of in law it is a canon.
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I agree almost completely with you Silencer, bad gameplay, the extreme look of disgusting, a lot of very un Fallout weapons (but so has Bethesda's FO3), stupid dialog, non fitting music.

    But there are a few things I like too;

    - The secret Vault Tec vault, makes sense that these guys would have a private facility.
    - Most cars and trucks even though they are just background details
    - Attis and his Super Mutants, makes sense the Super Mutants would want to try to continue to try to take over the world.
    Unfortunate Attis' plan turned out flawed as the Vault Tec scientists cure for sterility doesn't work.
    - The robot turrets, gun bots and tesla bots, I rather like them.

    As for Bethesda's Fallout 3.
    Well franchise wise it is canon, I just don't give a damn and refuse to consider even elements of it canon like I do with FOBOS and Tactics.
    I hope in the future if someone else should acquire the franchise that all of Bethesda's entries will be de canonized.

    Now as for Fallout New Vegas, now that is going to be a tricky one.
    I guess we need to see it but I am leaning towards calling this the real sequel to Fallout 2.
  6. Sephis

    Sephis It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    Anything that contradicts the previous two Fallout games (Or tactics in some ways) is not canon by my standards. Like super mutants being there, another branch of the BoS that wouldn't have more ties with Chicago's, Enclave remnants. Little lamplight which makes no sense at all. (Where do those kids come from did I miss that by the way?)

    Project purities entire concept being flawed..
    The running water and electricity.... I'm going to stop now.
  7. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    May 18, 2010
    As far as Fallout 3 goes, it's considered Canon as far as Bethsoft is concerned. However, I feel Bethsoft really dropped the ball on pretty much everything the created for FO3.

    1. Talon Mercenaries. Just who are these guys? How did they get started? I would have liked to know more about these guys and I think they had some potential to be a rather interesting faction, but sadly they are just brainless, blood thirsty monsters that attack on sight, save one instant as a good character.

    2. Canterbury Commons. THIS is the trading hub of the Capital Wasteland, seriously? The first time I went to Canterbury Commons I was expecting decently sized town with suited for a task such as being a trading hub, but we get a shanty town with hardly anything in it.

    3. The Brotherhood of Steel. I've always liked the BoS, and when they announced that they would be in it, I intrigued. Sadly, they are a bunch of goody goodies that run around talking about protecting the "innocent" people of the wasteland, screaming such classics like "To Arms Brother's, To Arms!" and the classic "Steel be with you". Compared to the Brotherhood in Tactics, which was an interesting spin on the Brotherhood.

    4. Taking the 50's theme way way way too far.

    5. Saturday morning cartoon version of factions. In addition to the BoS, the Enclave, and Super Mutants also suffer from this.

    It will be interesting to see how New Vegas turns out, but seeing as how it seems to be more closely related to the Fallout 1-2, then everything should be ok.
  8. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    fallout 3 has a few good sides which I think are not enough to make it up for the thinks I don't seem to like. As a matter of fact I do like F3 as a game, but as a fallout game it really s**ks. and i think it differs too much compared to the original fallout games and I don't think it is/can a/be canon even though bethsoft bought the right to make it so.

    I don't get why do you think Fallout New Vegas stands a better chance of being part of the canon compared to F3 after the game is being made by guys that are on the same team. If that's what you meant by calling it "the real sequel to Fallout 2", Dutch Ghost?
  9. Tremer

    Tremer It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 5, 2010
    tell that to star wars fans that not like the prequels or any other thing GL has make canon now

    i am with him
  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Yeah but problem is Tremer, Fallout 3 fans are the majority in this case, and not the fans of Fallout 1 and 2.
    It would be the people who only got into Fallout through Fallout 3 who would determine the fan consensus of Fallout 3 being canon.

    Rather mean of me but in general I feel their opinions don't matter really.
    My personal idea is that a lot of them are simply attracted to what is shiny and new at the moment and what is the declared by game reviewers to be the current 'shit'.

    As soon as they are tired of it they move on to the next big thing on the mainstream game market, not giving any care about the Fallout franchise for which they insulted long term fans for not truly being fans and being stuck in the past for not embracing Bethesda's version.
    Of course that is until the next big Fallout game comes and they suddenly declare themselves to be Fallout fans again.

    This does not apply to every new fan but I personally feel that this is the case in general.

    It is sort of like when a comic book series becomes really popular.
    Before that you have fans who loved the series long before the mainstream audience knew of it because some movie for example put attention on it.

    Then you have the 'new' fans who declare themselves diehard fans after they have been introduced to it by whatever big event that put attention to said comic book.
    They barely knew of the comic before or just didn't give a damn about it before it became popular.
  11. Miwenskee

    Miwenskee First time out of the vault

    Apr 5, 2010
    Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware of the enormous flaws this game has, what I do here is simply stating facts. I do have to admit, though, that to my regret it was F3 that caught my attention at first and got me interested in the whole franchise. I say "to my regret" because after all I did like the game and I know how most of the old fans feel about the new ones. I'm glad, however, that the Dutch said there are exceptions among the new fans because I consider myself one of them - as I said before I am into the idea (and consequently the storyline) of the fallout games more than the games themselves.
  12. sydney_roo

    sydney_roo Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 24, 2008
    Unfortunately it is official (as in Bethesda's) canon nowadays but that doesn't have to be your own. At least not mine it isn't. Anything that tramples 1 & 2 's legacy isn't, by my book.
  13. Jax Sparrow

    Jax Sparrow It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 29, 2010
    My final words for now would be that F3 in law is canon jusd because bethsoft had bought the right to say so, on the other hand it's "trampling", as Sydney_roo said above, too much of the initial fallout games too much and I do not consider it a part of the canon
  14. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    The official canon now includes Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas and partly Fallout Tactics. However, you can always have your own personal canon.
  15. sydney_roo

    sydney_roo Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 24, 2008
    We always have our FU

    . . . .

    Fan universe that is.
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Definitely sticking to my own idea what should be canon Ausir, otherwise I might have to accept that freaking aliens were involved in the War.
  17. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    I include FO3 up to Broken Steel, not the fucking alien abomination.
  18. Korin

    Korin So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 6, 2010
    You don't really get a choice about what's canon. You can certainly have a personal canon. You can fan-fic any kind of personal canon you like. But you don't get a choice about the official canon.

    Personally, I have enjoyed Fallout 3's lore, both in how in connects back to the original two games and how it has expanded with some of it's own (such as the wasteland BOS). I did not like Mothership zeta and felt that aliens were silly, but it is not my choice to decide whether that's "part of the fallout universe". It clearly is, since they own the games and have added it.

    If they choose to add in a race of nazi clown ogres that ride into battle on pink donkeys, it is canon. It's not a matter of accepting it as fact, refusal to do so is ignorance. I would of course, stop playing the game at that point because it had become retarded. I would fondly prefer to remember "how it once was".

    As they release New Vegas, Fallout 4 and any other sequels/spin-offs it will get harder and harder to deny what the canon is, as they will be fleshing the details and lore out until there is far more of it than what was originally in the first two. I fully expect Bethesda to surpass Interplay/Black Isle in the number of Fallout games released.

    This is probably the wrong place to ask whether Fallout 3 is canon though, since most of the forum population are die hard F1/F2 fans.
  19. lemonold

    lemonold First time out of the vault

    Jul 8, 2010
    In my world, NO.
    The FEV was not supposed to stretch that far.
    There was not supposed to be mutants.
    Ether follow the rules or don't even try.
  20. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    You might just as well say that often you don't have a choice whether to make your own canon. Reboots, retcons, gaps, inconsistencies, goofs, oversights and hypotheticals tend to blur the lines quite a bit. Are the events and premises of FoBoS "official canon"? Certainly, within the context of that game and its publication. Do any other developers build on them? No, but we can only express them as non-canon by adding a number of qualifiers: When? According to whom? In relation to what? "Official canon" is just canon with a single, somewhat nebulous qualifier.