Is F3 a part of the Fallout canon?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Miwenskee, May 25, 2010.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Shadow of the Wastes,

    Check the previous discussions on the topic of the Super Mutants and the Enclave organization, hell check the canon of Fallout 1 and 2.

    There were only two places in North America that had FEV and FEV2, one was the West Tek research facility which was turned into a big smoldering crater when the Chinese nuked it to ensure that whatever it was would not come to haunt them.

    Then there is Mariposa base, a military research facility that was exclusively re purposed for the goal of manufacturing, researching and testing FEV and later FEV2 with the goal of creating super soldiers.

    And all of this happened just years before the War, no way in hell that the US government and military would trust a civilian corporation with FEV.

    (despite what the manual says FOBOS/FOPOS makes it clear that the researchers at the Secret Vault were researching a cure for sterility caused by mutation, not experimenting with FEV they got from the government)

    Even the Enclave had to come to back to California and excavate the ruins of Mariposa in order to find a sample of FEV for their scientists, rather than going to some other facility that might still be standing.


    The Enclave wasn't a super organization spanning the entire continent.
    It was a small bunch of hardliners and their followers who believed themselves to be the 'true America', even when the USA was still around.
    They didn't operate an army that was in the thousands.

    Their biggest asset was the Poseidon oil rig and its manufacturing facilities with a number of smaller outposts for recon and research on the mainland, that was it.

    When they lost the Poseidon oil rig it was over because the Enclave was centralized to much, most likely because they were worried about dissent and perhaps uprising amongst their own people if they had been spread out across the country.

    All that is left of them are broken remains, some soldiers, technicians and scientists who operate from what is left of former Poseidon Energy and other corporate labs and facilities that once belonged to the Enclave's major corporate allies.
    And at best all they could do was wage some pathetic attempt at war.

    Not go all across the country and start all over again, making yet new variants on Power Armor and fleets of vertibirds.


    The BOS is not like that, their primary mission is survival, anyone who wants to go out and become some kind of hero, or whatever other goal that the BOS does not pursue leaves the Brotherhood.

    The Midwest BOS was more willing to be more active in Wasteland affairs but they were far from being the heroes of the wasteland.
    They protected settlements only in return for supplies and recruits and those under their protection have to follow Brotherhood rules.

    They set out to locate Vault Zero because it would give them an edge in technology and knowledge, changing the mission to taking out the Calculator only because they realized that eventually the Cyborg AI would turn against them and overwhelm their bases with massive robot armies.

    Even the Texas Brotherhood (though non canon for most) wasn't an example of virtue.
    Rhombus might have been more virtuous to find out what the remainders of the Super Mutants were up to, but only to make sure they would not become a threat to the BOS again.

    The BOS leaders expected the player characters to die or at least not come back when they send them to find out what happened to Rhombus and his team.

    Not exactly 'knights of the wasteland' is it?


    What would be the point of that?
    Part of Fallout's strength is its base in Americana, the pop icons, the grim fantasies of 50's B movies and science fiction pulp.
    That barely existed in the rest of the world.


    Then you might as well put yourself down as a fanboy as you act quite butt hurt that not everyone embraces the brilliance of Bethesda.
     
  2. Shadow of the Wastes

    Shadow of the Wastes It Wandered In From the Wastes

    126
    Aug 8, 2010
    Dude, I'll be the first to admit that Bethesda makes games that, while fun, are usually hilariously broken or have meh stories. As for another country, wouldn't the technology still generally be "how the '50's imagined the future?"

    (Your other points are story wank and I've only really played 3, my attempt at playing 1 failed.)
     
  3. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    There are canons in Fallout 3?! Can I use them to shoot super mutants?!
     
  4. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    canon is a tricky thing, i recall parts fo FO2 being regarded as not canon and then FOT... eventually if its can be explained through the story then the majority rule takes place.
    its should be also noted that any future FO including las veges will regard FO3 as canon.

    you can say its wont become canon and forget the grim post nuclear romanticism of FO past FO2 forever, however i am afraid that its will not past the test of time FO3.
     
  5. Shadow of the Wastes

    Shadow of the Wastes It Wandered In From the Wastes

    126
    Aug 8, 2010

    Two points:
    1) Holy hell, go back to English class.
    2) Regarding it as canon and using the material aren't the same. It's basically opposite ends of the continent, so the most we'll see of anything (IF we see anything) from Fallout 3 is a random event referencing some part of it.
     
  6. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    you can only hope but the bottom line is that beth owns FO, obsidian only a contractor they hired, sure obsidian will do what they do best polish others products (still waiting for them to polish their own attempt at a product, how many month does it takes for a patch to be released?)

    but eventually all their work will be based on FO cannon, which includes F3 because canon is what beth says it is.
    i also highly doubt that FO3 wont be referenced A LOT because FO3 is the phenomena/real FO for all the new crowd...
     
  7. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    If they just cut and paste from Fallout 1 and 2 when they want to and when it is convenient, why should they stick to what they told in Fallout 3?
     
  8. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    most of you hold undeserving contempt for FO3, sure we would loved to see it redone by inter or later by troika but they bankrupted and beth was the one to revive the franchise.

    its ok not to like the game for its view point or its been made for a different target audience but all this talk about how wrong they where in regard to canon and setting is just a wank.

    changing the game to open world environment is a huge deal, they had to re imagine everything and not everything fits, obvsiously we are smarter then them but with all do respect beth has more experience with open world games than inter, trokia and everyone else here)

    besides what about new reno and furry intelligent death claws and talkative super mutants, or FOT events...
    you should remember that fo2 events happened almost 80years after FO1 with shady sands turning from shit hole to NCR republic with almost a million citizens(how about that for a wasteland) and the remnants of the mutant army spreading across the country with the brotherhood (west/east) separated and robot army rise and fall + another ~30 years... so i dont see a problem with most of their story.


    what you should do, is thank them since they decided to put FO3 on the east coast thus not interfering with our turn of events and allowing for FO las vegas which should be more what we like.
     
  9. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    You are free not to care about canon and setting. I barely care about it myself at this point.

    I think it's hard to argue that they had to, but it does seem to be the estimation of a lot of people here that they did.

    Considered by most to be somewhere between awkward and retarded.
     
  10. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    i dont know if by most is the correct word here, i loved new reno and i know that many many pp-l here did as well.
    the point is that regardless of those events Fo2 considered canon and some of those events considered by many as canon and even a huge part of FO2.


    you are free not to care about it but claiming its not canon just because you are upset that you weren't part of FO3 target audience, so looking for cases like the above so you can call FO3 un "canony" to substantiate your feelings is BS.


    there is no question here, changing to open world environment requires a whole different approach in design and reimagining everything (re imagining as in remaking it in 3d / open world because many things that looks cool in 2d will look ridicules and un realistic in 3D)

    at best you may question if they had to make the change in the fest place but considering beth track record i think its was obvious from day one that beth = open world, real time 3d. (personally i think its was also presented as such to interplay and they still choose beth over troika.)

    in any case if you followed the development progress (hoping it will turn out something else) and/or gave any thing you didnt like a little thought as to how to implement it you would have seen that most of their choices was the right ones.
     
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Perhaps I complain because I care about something, and hate to see it being ruined?

    That is bullshit and you know that.

    As for the whole Troika vs Bethesda thing, Troika wasn't broke yet.
    They already had some work in place for a PA RPG.
     
  12. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    I guess you missed all the long threads where people point out and discuss the inconsistencies. But wait, doing that is "just a wank", right? So people are simply not allowed to have any issues with Bethesda's treatment of the elements. Wow, no one's ever come here to tell us that before.
     
  13. mor

    mor Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Jun 18, 2010
    i also recall many others regarding other FO and even conflicting verses by inter :roll: (i been here longer than it looks).
    anyway we are all allowed to have an opinion, for example i think that most of your first post in this page can be explained canon wise (and i dont even like FO3)


    in any case the thorn in this whole discussion that regardless of what you and i think in terms of canon beth is the one that matters and even in terms of "fanon" there is a lot more FO3 fans then us, which brings to my initial statement few post back.
     
  14. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    You mean The Dutch Ghost's post?

    In terms of putting out Fallout games Bethesda (and currently Obsidian) are the ones that matter. There's a difference, although the two are of course related.

    "Fanon" is not relevant to a discussion on the nature of canon. It's entirely possible for two people to disagree on canon without either of them making up new world facts to support their case (I don't think anyone has done so here, for instance). Besides that, it makes no sense for people here to poll the world at large before deciding what they think is true, false or indeterminate about the Fallout world. It would serve no purpose.
     
  15. Worthless Mutt

    Worthless Mutt First time out of the vault

    3
    Aug 18, 2010
    I spent an hour writing a superb post on my view on the subject, but decided that it was far too long winded so I'll just TL;DR it for you.

    I've known about the Fallout series for as long as I can remember but the first one I played was FO3, then after completing that a few million times I decided to try FO1.

    There's lots of flaws in the plot and execution of FO3 that makes a lot of people hate it, but I tentatively accept it as cannon because although it butchers a lot of ideas from 1 and 2, it's set in a different place so it has little effect on the overall plot of the series (I know about the super mutants, just pretend they weren't there). Oh and as for taking 1950's style too far, well that can be looked at in a number of ways, probably best just to ignore that too, though.

    Basically just take the bits you like as cannon and throw away what you don't.

    Jeez, that's my TL;DR? All that text and very little content.

    :|
     
  16. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    I consider it Cannon due to it being closer to the original games then FOT and FOBOS.
    However, like people here have said, there are many errors in the cannon such as Super Mutants being yellow and the BoS giving a damn who lives and who dies.

    But many of these can be explained such as the Suoer Mutants being created with a differnt FEV Virus (or what ever makes them Mutants, I can't remember) and that Elder Lyons thought that he could help the wasteland and saw that as his mission.

    That's the thing I like about the Fallout series, that it gives you the chance to make up your own backstories and explaination to things.
     
  17. Faceless Stranger

    Faceless Stranger Board Drifter

    Aug 19, 2010
    To bad the explanation of why the FEV was there in the first place goes against the canon objective of the Vault Experiment :roll:
     
  18. John B.

    John B. Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    388
    Sep 24, 2010
    I for one think that the Bethesda fans should be ignored, by the members, and/or directed to the posts that already exist ten times over saying exactly what they are saying with the responses given, I see people trying to reason with the fans of Bethesda, and never once do they seam to listen to the facts that are presented to them, they simply ignore them toss aside all reason, and forget that without us, the fallout fans who bought fallout one, and two when they came out, there would never have been a fallout three or a fallout new Vegas, or even a fallout two, the fans that were here first were the fans that made "fallout" 3 possible, the least they can do is read up, and listen to us, at least once.
     
  19. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    The game is 100% canon there is no arguing.

    Bethesda hold the rights to Fallout games.

    'The Majority' love this game - see Metacritic.

    See sales figures.

    Bethsoft could have you abducted by a fucking alien and it would still be canon, oh wait, they did.

    On the 50's theme, I think it's very well executed.

    Alot of things that are ostensibly non-canon, aren't. The BoS is explained, albeit badly, and such like.

    Note; I have no side here.
     
  20. Korin

    Korin So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Admin

    Aug 6, 2010
    There are some lore inconsistencies here and there but Fallout 3 is canon. People can choose to believe it is or isn't, but that doesn't change what is "official". They aren't going to release a Fallout 4 and say, "You know what, we're retconning all of Fallout 3. Ignore it.". Even if that's what some people hope would happen.