Kieron Gillen interviews Pete Hines

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Brother None, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    As he promised after the Eurogamer preview, KG's interview with Pete Hines is up now.<blockquote>Eurogamer: What I've never quite understood about Fallout 3 is why would Bethesda buy the licence? Arguably "Bethesda does post-apocalyptic game" is a bigger story than "Bethesda makes Fallout 3". Fallout is a relic to modern gamers. If you'd made your own world, you'd have sidestepped all the stress of dealing with over-protective fans.

    Pete Hines: It's like, if George Lucas died tomorrow - God willing, he doesn't - and you're a film director. And you've grown up making big epic films - maybe you're Peter Jackson. And he finishes whatever his big next film is. And someone asks him, "what do you want to do next?" And he says, "I always wanted to make a big space movie. A big epic movie full of action." And they ask, "do you want to do generic space movie that you make up yourself, or do you want to do Star Wars." And he says, "I could do whatever, but I grew up as a kid and Star Wars made me want to get into making movies. It had such a profound impact on me, I would love to pick up this thing I loved and cared so much about and make the next one. And I'm not the guy who did the originals, but it means so much to me, and would mean much more to me to work in this world. It would be easier, perhaps less controversial and less pressure to do my own, but I'd rather do this thing that someone else did so much more."

    That's the best analogy I can use. We could have made anything and people would have been interested in it, probably, but Fallout meant a ton to us, and we love the tone and flavour of that world, and how meaningful it was for its time, how different it was from other stuff that was out there. We said, "we could do anything, but what we'd really love to do is Fallout". Use that character system and that world that's so unique from anything else that we might come up with. We'd rather do that than come up with our own thing. Bring that to life - and bring it not to just people who played the it before, but people who've never got to play or experience it. There's this great game and world which somebody came up that we really think you'll want to play.

    I love a party with a radioactive, toxic atmosphere.

    Eurogamer: You're driven by love. Do you think that's something the very hardcore Fallout fans miss?

    Pete Hines: I don't know whether they miss it or not - it may be that they don't care and think, "that's all well and good, but you're not the ones we wanted to make this". I don't pretend to know exactly what their motivations and thought processes are. Those guys are very enthusiastic - we're talking about the very hardest of the hardcore Fallout fan. They're very passionate about this thing and protective about it. And that's okay. It's something they've clearly got a lot of attachment too. At the same time, we are making the very best game that we can. It's not for any one group of folk - we're making the best game we know how for a lot of people who'll come to play and enjoy it.

    Eurogamer: So do you blank out the criticism then?

    Pete Hines: You never blank it out. You take all the feedback from Oblivion, and all the feedback from what people want from a Fallout game. And what you find is there's never agreement on anything from anyone. We get feedback from people who say you've got to have this. As long as you've got the SPECIALs [the game's statistics - Ed] and perks, that's Fallout. And some people say if it's not isometric and not turn-based, it's not Fallout. So you basically go and look at what made the game meaningful for them, and try as much as you can to match it with what you're doing, so you're doing what people remember and is important to them. But it's more of getting a vibe of what they want, rather than sitting in an art meeting and going, "What do we want this creature to look like... let's go and ask the fans". At some point we have seventy-five people making the game, devoting 3-4 years of their life and they're ultimately the tie-breakers. And it's not as if all seventy-five people think the same thing. We have big rows over should something work like X and Y or Z. And eventually a decision gets made, and we move forward with it. It's the same with feedback from outside the company - we take it all into account, but at some point you have to pick and direction and move on.</blockquote>Link: Pete Hines on Fallout 3.

    Thanks Mungrul, PlanHex, etc. etc.
     
  2. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Good interview.

    That's the fucking worst analogy ever.

    1. Tim Cain isn't dead.
    2. At least one original Fallout developer applied to Bethesda to work on this game. Not only are they not dead, they offered to work with them. So add to his analogy "Yeah, and if George Lucas asked if he could work on this film, we'd tell him to piss off"
    3. If Jackson jumped on Lucas' dead bones people would be fucking outraged, and justifiably so. The Star Wars story is over, Lucas made 6 films and that's the story as he originally envisioned. Who the hell is Jackson to jump into someone else's story?

    Oh no, we've heard this line before, that's not the problem.

    We just don't buy it.

    Why not? Well, on the one hand, it's Bethesda, and we simply don't trust Bethesda. On the other hand, who would buy a franchise out of love only to make a game that contradicts the franchise in so many ways? Does that speak of love.

    Besides, Bethesda is not the boss of its own wallet. My theory was and still is that ZeniMax did not feel they could trust Bethesda to make any original property, since the minds that made TES had long since left and only people like Todd Howard are left. Thus ZeniMax decided to buy the biggest RPG franchise on the open market: Fallout. Problem solved.

    Are we really supposed to believe a 6-million dollar decision was made out of love from the developers?

    Heh.

    Don't make me laugh.

    I wish you guys would twist and turn so much
    Todd Howard:
    The response we've gotten from everyone has been incredible. It seems like almost every gamer and press guy is a fan of the original, and are really looking forward to what we're going to do with it, and really looking forward to seeing Fallout return to a new era of gaming. I think the hardcore fans are incredibly misunderstood, and frankly, have been mistreated in the past. We've been reading the forums a lot and much of our thinking on Fallout 3 is just listening to experiences people had with the other games, like how those games made them feel, what they liked and disliked about every Fallout game.

    The reason we wanted to make a Fallout game in the first place, was just how much we loved the first game. But we weren't the ones online posting all the time about a game from 97. Think about that...8 years later and they still haven't gotten a decent Fallout RPG, and people keep shoving crap at them. I'd be pissed too. I'd be wary of the new guys from Bethesda too. Hopefully when they see our game they'll give it a shot.


    I wish you guys could stick to one viewpoint, rather than adapt whatever is most convenient. Y'know what they call that adapting? Lying.
     
  3. MrBumble

    MrBumble Vault Fossil

    Jan 17, 2006
    First question :

    Yeah, you could have made a Star Wars movie but you actually bought the Star Wars licence and made a generic SF movie with it.

    Second question :

    Just cut the bullshit, seriously.

    Third question :

    Just as you did for Star Trek uh ? Sounds like a very efficient strategy...
     
  4. Bofast

    Bofast Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    325
    Jan 26, 2006
    Bethesda just keep saying more and more stupid things everyday. Soon they'll be approaching the world record in amount of stupid things said about any single game :roll:
     
  5. Seymour the spore plant

    Seymour the spore plant Still Mildly Glowing

    258
    Mar 5, 2008
    This analogy should go like "imagine you ARE George Lucas and you grew up making money and fame out of a franchise. Then, after it's run its course, you decide to whore it out to the broadest audience possible with a kiddie-friendly 'reimagining' to cash in for some extra bucks, all the while double-thinking its past for whatever does not fit its new appearance".

    Well, it would account for the direction of The Elder Scrolls, at least; Jar Jar Binks is the dumbing down, Greedo shooting first is the sandbox as the franchise's "raison d'être", the shiny graphics and bloom is fucking Cristopher Hayden ruining Darth Vader.

    Fallout 3 is where Beth is worse than George Lucas, for whoring the work of others. The proccess is pretty much the same, though.
     
  6. Jesterka

    Jesterka Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    912
    Mar 16, 2006
    Same. I actually stopped reading any Fallout 3-related news - it's basically a pure waste of time.
     
  7. Eyenixon

    Eyenixon Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 11, 2008
    Sounds kind of like Brian Herbert destroying the entire Dune series with his inept writing if I follow that analogy correctly.

    It comes off as "we're too lazy to do anything else, and here's Fallout, we like that, so... let's just use that and not have to be creative ourselves."

    I find the most unintentionally amusing part of this analogy to be the fact that he states that if they didn't take the existing franchise of Fallout, that whatever they created in a post-apocalyptic world would be generic and dull.
    Hey, they're learning from their mistakes, if all they can do is generic and soulless fantasy RPGs, maybe they should just steal another setting and substitute that for their ineptitude.
     
  8. iridium_ionizer

    iridium_ionizer Mildly Dipped

    558
    Jul 24, 2007
    I really hate it when I disagree with Brother None but on this point I do.

    As a Star Wars fan I wouldn't be intrinsically outraged by Peter Jackson doing Star Wars - and I am a Star Wars fan and someone that thought Jackson's King Kong was 45 minutes too long. As far as I'm concerned Lucas raped his own franchise and I would be more than happy if some competent director gave the franchise post-trauma therapy. Lots of Star Wars fans take my position: Return of the Jedi was Fallout Tactics and the prequels were Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. Only fan edits make the first two prequels bearable. I would love to see Jackson's version of Star Wars if it were more true to the Lucas '77 - '80 universe than the Lucas '96 - '03 universe.

    There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Bethesda doing Fallout. It is only the fact that they seem to be producing something that is not true to Fallout that makes it wrong. Sure, it's lack of class that they haven't picked up any of the old developers, but not necessarily wrong for doing so. If you felt that Fallout 1 & 2 sufficiently wrapped up the universe you could say that a sequel or even a remake is a waste of resources and cultural space, but not in and of itself wrong. I just don't think that things that we hammer on Bethesda for doing couldn't be the right thing to do with a different property in a different set of circumstances.

    That said, all indicators point to Fallout 3 not being Fallout.
     
  9. sonicblastoise

    sonicblastoise First time out of the vault

    62
    Apr 28, 2008
    there may be nothing "intrinsically wrong" with beth doing fallout, but there is something with LYING about the REASONS for doing fallout.

    once that foundation can be questioned, there really is NO TRUST LEFT in the rest of the process. their motivation is pretty much plainly financial

    not artistic
    not creative
    not loving

    and certainly not fallout
     
  10. ikbenrichard

    ikbenrichard First time out of the vault

    18
    Jun 19, 2006
    Thought i was the only NMA person that stopped reading F3 related interviews and all. It just makes my blood pressure go up so i stopped watching progress like 1 month after the first intro movie.

    Todd said onces, the worst thing that could happen is if people just loose interest in our games. well i just did that!

    Blocked it out and so far it works quite well.
     
  11. pexxx

    pexxx First time out of the vault

    90
    Feb 12, 2007
    That Jackson thing. Why he didn't use King Kong as an example?[/b][/quote]
     
  12. Black

    Black Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 21, 2007
    Yeah, good job. Because Fallout and TES are SOOOO similar. It's not like one's p&p emulation and the other isn't even trying.
     
  13. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    If your beloved one doesn't one to be with you, you let that someone GO.

    If they'd truly love (sounds ridiculous to me, I for one, don't love Fallout - I just value it and enjoy playing it) Fallout franchise, they would get as much people that made it in the first place or at least would *ask* them for cooperation.

    Sheesh.
     
  14. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    What the fuck are you now, Rastafarian?
     
  15. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Fuck, if you love a girl but it doesn't work out between the two of you (badly), you just let her go, because you don't want to hurt her any further. Now you get it?
     
  16. Autoduel76

    Autoduel76 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    373
    May 14, 2007
    Whether or not you believe him is, of course, up to you, but those two viewpoints aren't any different.

    He said in both interviews that they bought Fallout because they loved the games.

    He said in the latest interview that they listen to the fans and try to figure out "what made the game meaningful" to them to "get a vibe of what they want".

    He said in that old interview that they've " been reading the forums a lot and much of our thinking on Fallout 3 is just listening to experiences people had with the other games, like how those games made them feel, what they liked and disliked about every Fallout game. "

    I don't understand this need you seem to have to try and make all of this PR spin (which of course is all it is) out to be some kind of massive lie.

    Hines has pretty much been saying the same thing since the beginning. Certainly nothing that he says is of substance, but its hardly controversial, or overly deceptive.

    That they bought the franchise because they liked it is hardly false, nor some big conspiracy laden cover up. Of course that's why they bought it. Were there other financial concerns brought up during the discussion that we will never be privvy to? Of course.

    But they weren't sitting in an office somewhere saying "I really disliked Fallout, but since I've got 6 million dollars to burn lets buy it".

    Whoever's idea it was to get the Fallout liscense most likely played the original and liked it, pitched the idea to the higher ups that the could do it "Bethesda-style" and it went over well.

    And likewise, Hines has been saying, pretty much from the beginning that they listen to the fans, know what the fans want but ultimately would be making their own decisions on how to go forward with Fallout 3.

    Wether or not you believe any fan input was seriously considered is, again, up to you. But, what he's been saying hasn't changed and, again, isn't even significant enough to be controversial.
     
  17. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Well, true, Star Wars has the extra factor of Lucas himself fucking it up, something which none of the original Fallout devs have, except arguably Chris Taylor with Tactics (sorry, Chris!)

    Well, it's nice that you're deconstructing some massive attempt to make for a huge conspiracy or whatever, but the real shame is that I never indicated I consider it a massive lie or even worth any controversy. That's something you're assuming, not something I said. I just say they're lying. And they are.
     
  18. Series8217

    Series8217 First time out of the vault

    22
    Jun 13, 2006
    The proper analogy is:

    "What if Lucasfilm directors fired George Lucas and put the Star Wars license up for sale? Now you're some director, say, Michael Bay, and you're like, 'LOL, I was a big Star Wars fan [who wasn't?] and have a lot of money. I'll buy Star Wars and make my own movie!' Now George Lucas is like 'WTF?!?!?!' and Michael Bay goes on to make Star Wars: The Movie starring Sam Witwicky as Luke Skywalker and Mikaela Banes as Mara Jade. Star Wars fans (and probably George Lucas) proceed to throw a fit and Michael Bay says he's making it with love and they needn't worry."

    :roll:
     
  19. Autoduel76

    Autoduel76 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    373
    May 14, 2007
    Well see now you are just adapting your viewpoint to whatever is convienent, rather than sticking with one. You are certainly just as guilty of "lying" in the above sentence as Pete Hines was.

    You clearly indicated you considered it a lie and worth some level of controversy with your statement

    I suppose you can debate the level of force of the word "massive" you put before "lie" in your last post, but the word "any" is pretty much belied by the fact that even bringing it up is making some level of controversy over it. It isn't worth debating how much, but its more than none.

    However, I still fail to see the lie in there. The fact that you disagree with their interpretation of what Fallout 3 should be, or what the fans want is not a lie. And neither is the fact that they purchased the license because they liked the franchise.
     
  20. MrBumble

    MrBumble Vault Fossil

    Jan 17, 2006
    The thought of Michael Bay doing a Star Wars movie made me puke in my mouth a little bit.