Kieron Gillen interviews Pete Hines

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Brother None, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. Forhekset

    Forhekset Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 5, 2007
    That Star Wars analogy was seriously bad. Assuming Lucas dies? WTF?

    Anyway, Pete came off as much less of a marketroid douchebag in this interview than he has in other stuff I've read. But yeah, lying is a way of life for PR folks. No surprise there.

    Oh yeah, and I'm another person who doesn't really keep up with FO3 news much anymore. I come here mainly for the comments about the news. I skim the previews posted on NMA's front page, but that's about it - I think I already know basically everything I need to know about this game.

    I'd really like to try out a demo at some point in the future, but that ain't gonna happen apparently.
  2. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    You are actually just putting your preconceived ideas in the minds of the others. That conjugated with your seemingly inability to understand logic, of course... :\

    You clearly indicated you considered it a lie and worth some level of controversy with your statement

    But it's just me. Saying... You know... At the end of the day and all that.
  3. Bodybag

    Bodybag Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 7, 2008
    Man, if only PJ could've had a crack at the Star Wars sequels. :cry:
  4. gc051360

    gc051360 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 12, 2007
    Difference being....Peter Jackson making a Star Wars film, probably would be better than those shitty prequels Lucas made.

    I actually think Star Wars fans would appreciate it, if Lucas decided that those prequels needed a re-do. 2nd chance at it. It's got some good material there. No pod races, no child vaders, no Jar Jar, no Hayden Christiansen. George Lucas needs to re-do those films.

    Yeah. It's a pretty terrible analogy. The biggest thing being, that it hasn't happened. You usually make analogies, to shit that actually happened. You don't draw comparisons between what you did, and a hypothetical situation that YOU made up. That's stupid.

    Also. Peter Jackson remade King Kong, due to his love for the original from his childhood. Why not just use that, instead of hypothetically murdering George Lucas??

    Or Rob Zombie remaking Halloween (although that one was terrible)

    Basically. If George Lucas died....and then another director tried to cash in on Star Wars.....that guy would be hated.
  5. Series8217

    Series8217 First time out of the vault

    Jun 13, 2006
    Which is one reason why its the better analogy for Bethesda doing a Fallout game ;-)
  6. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Because you misunderstood what I'm saying?

    I was repeating the viewpoint that we've expressed before for how Bethesda moved from "the Fallout fanbase has been really abused" (Todd) and "you are really great guys" (Emil), to carefully side-stepping any discussion of the fanbase beyond "we gotta do what we gotta do". That's it. If you want to turn a bug into an elephant go ahead, if you can't see what disingenuous about this...ok I guess. I mention this change of attitude every now and again, I have for months, but nobody overreacted or stated it was a huge controversy did. So who's the one taking things a bit further than they should go?
  7. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    That's the problem with Bethesda: they love too much.

    Michael Bay doing Blade Runner 2 is a better analogy.

    Peter Jackson is a really bad film maker, but not as bad as Michael Bay.
  8. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Y'know, I'm convinced that people like Ed D. Wood jr and Uwe Boll really love film-making.

    "Loving something" has never really been a badge of skill.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Black

    Black Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 21, 2007
    Yeah, many people like playing guitar or other instruments, singing or even whistling. Doesn't mean they're good at it ;d. I know I'm not.
  10. Section8

    Section8 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 6, 2003
    But Oblivion is like P&P! Just buy a fuckload of unrelated sourcebooks from random settings, create a gameworld and ignore any kind of core rules, just let your players say what they want and give it to them without challenge. That's fun isn't it?

    Michael Bay may be a douchebag who turns out utter hollywood tripe, but you can't say that The Rock isn't an absurdly entertaining piece of tripe with a certain charm to it. It's almost up to the standard of Paul Verhoeven's satire of Hollywood. Bethesmax still haven't done anything worthwhile, so the comparison is hardly fair... to Michael Bay. <snicker>

    Nor is it always for the right reasons. I thought I loved Fallout when I was hired to work on Tactics, and didn't even believe a fan when they said you could talk the Master into suicide. :oops:

    Also, you can "love" some things about something and not the entirety of it. For instance, I love the concept of Oblivion, but my dislike of the particulars wouldn't sit well if I were somehow in charge of developing a faithful sequel. I get the feeling the same applies with Bethesda and Fallout 3:

    "Man, I love this game! But I wish it didn't have A, B, C, D, E, F, G and had Z, Y, X, W, V, U, T instead."

    I'm not entirely sure that's "love". It's like telling your significant other that you like their personality, but want them to shed 50 pounds, dye their hair and have a facelift. It's even worse when all the changes make them more closely resemble your previous partner.
  11. Sarkus

    Sarkus First time out of the vault

    Dec 16, 2003
    You act like this was all a big like on Bethesda's part. As someone who was around here when Bethesda first acquired the rights to do Fallout 3, you can't pretend that the reaction by this community was anything but overwhelmingly negative. And it has remained that way as time has gone on. No matter what details or decisions Bethesda revealed, the response was almost always to express outrage.

    At a certain point Bethesda has to move on from listening to the same complains over and over again.
  12. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    I never said it was. I was talking about Bethesda's attitude towards us, not vice versa.

    Though overwhelmingly negative is a harsh term. Anyone who has been here since the start would remember the period when we actually enforced, by rule, the "wait and see" policy, strictly banning all jumping to conclusions on Bethesda having the license. It's funny how people conveniently forget that.

    Was it?

    Reaction to the PIPBoy design? Positive. Reaction to the news Emil was the lead designer? Positive. Reaction to a number of things in the demo, including world design? Positive. Reactions to the teaser concept art and trailer? Mixed, but positive. As recent as this? Positive with footnotes, until Bodybag derailed it.

    I am sick and tired of people's selective memories. We have been consistent all along. When Bethesda bought the license, what did I majority of us say? That we feared that Bethesda would turn this into a FP RT game. What did Bethesda do? Turn it into a FP RT game.

    Don't come to me complaining about us jumping to conclusions. Yes, we did express our fears early, perhaps too early. But guess what? All those fears came true. I personally waved the flag of "wait and see", until Roshambo ran in to push my face into reality and tell me I was being a naive fool by hoping Bethesda would not make stupid decision. He may have been overly negative, but guess what? He was also right.

    So what's up with you telling me Bethesda "can't bother to listen to complaints" anymore when we have been very clear about what we prefer? From the start, all we have done is digest all sides of the Fallout franchise. Not just the setting, which Bethesda prefers, no, all sides of it. Gameplay, narrative, mechanics, setting, you name it. We're not even pretending to know design better than anyone, we're simply distilling.

    What you're basically saying is that Bethesda shouldn't bother to listen to us because what we have to say doesn't fit what they want to do. Fine. But then don't pretend that's because we're overly critical or because we hate Bethesda.

    There is a core to Fallout that we have been trying to distil for years. Bethesda ignored that effort to go their own way. That's fine, they own the license, that's their choice. But our message isn't a destructive one, it's a constructive one. We're not complaining because of what Bethesda does, we're complaining of what they don't do. If Bethesda held up the flag of Tim Cain's p&p vision, we wouldn't be in this mess.

    It's all that simple. It's nonsense to state that it is Bethesda who has to move on from the same complaints over and over, when all we have done is provide an alternative view of what the franchise should be. It's nonsense to try and hold them up as the victim here, when it's not actually about them at all, it's about what the franchise actually is, as opposed to what Fallout 3 is.

    This isn't the Codex. We don't hate Bethesda for what they are. Except the Codexers amongst us, none of us would actually care about Bethesda. It's the Fallout franchise we, collectively, care about. The moment you actually realise that, the moment you start to understand what our relationship with Bethesda actually is. Because "you all just complain a lot" is only part of it, not the whole. Not by a long shot.
  13. Zaij

    Zaij Vault Senior Citizen

    Feb 10, 2004
    Time for an NMA feature article on the current and historical BethSoft-NMA relationship. Thoughts?
  14. gc051360

    gc051360 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 12, 2007
    Yes. And I love sex.

    Loving something doesn't mean you're good at it.....
  15. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003

    The problem isn't in communication. People have selective memories, let them remember whatever is convenient for them.

    I do not consider us on the defensive, and feel no need to justify this barrage of nonsense with an official reply.
  16. tfp

    tfp First time out of the vault

    Dec 8, 2006
    at least the questions weren't "Isn't it impressive how much you guys rock?"

    It is kind of amazing how he manages to sound like they actually give a crap about gamer opinions.

    In my humble opinon, the gamers who have been around for 10 years, or even 20 are sort of fucked today. This is because the mainstream crowd has gotten really large and consists mostly of the kind of people who think halo 3 is a game with a new and inventive design, a masterpeice of evolution. The kind of games made in the 90ies are soo dead. Most people remember games like fallout(1/2), system shock 2 or deus ex (no I am not comparing or ranking these games), as great games, with depth in one way or another. but the mainstream crowd of today won't buy that since it is to advanced to their taste, so those games will if remade, be like bioshock was to system shock 2 (bioshock claimed to have choice and it did. Kill the first child and you are satan. Don't and you're jesus).

    With Deus Ex 3, fallout 3 announced and maybe System shock 3 (owned by EA unless I am mistaken) unannounced, around the corner I will be very impressed if they are not slimmed down for the mainstream crowd. The end point is earning money. which today means fucking over all the poeple who have gamed long enough to even have heard of the thing called "amiga". Mainly because there aren't enough of us.

    I just finished playing stalker for the first time, and thank god for that game. THAT is what a shooter should be like. (3 ways of making it better, dialogue, living world (ie, territorial control struggle by the AI) and CO-OP. That type of game is the perfect one to experience with a buddy). If fallout 3 is anywhere near as good as stalker I will be rather impressed.

    on a sidenote. have you noticed how very few of the gaming press NEVER EVER uses the lower half of their grading system? (the swedish site (fz, recently shortend from fragzone. Guess quakeing is something volcanos do today?) does hand out ones every now and then (scale 1-5). )
  17. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    Do you think "You’re driven by love. Do you think that’s something the very hardcore Fallout fans miss?" is better?
  18. keppj0nes

    keppj0nes First time out of the vault

    Mar 27, 2008
    Does this company think of themselves on the same level as someone like Peter Jackson? who are these people? Bethesda is like the Uwe Boll of videogames
  19. Sarkus

    Sarkus First time out of the vault

    Dec 16, 2003
    My point is that it works both ways. Bethesda started off saying "hey, we want to know what you guys think." The general response here was "you don't deserve the franchise and if it's not turn based and 3rd person iso you suck." That went on and on for a while. Then Bethesda decided and announced that it wasn't going to be turn based and 3rd person iso. After awhile they said "sorry, we aren't going to talk about that anymore." You can't ignore the middle part.

    You may have taken that view, but saying you "enforced" that rule is an exagerration. Go back and read the thread where it was announced that Bethesda had gotten the rights. I just did. It's pretty negative and while you personally were not jumping to conclusions, another administrative person was already putting conditions on his position and you were allowing regular posters to use personal attacks and foul language when arguing with people who thought first person might work. Claiming to take a "wait and see" attitude when it was a very narrowly defined "wait and see as long as you agree that the perspective and combat shouldn't change" is not really "wait and see."

    Exactly. You've been consistent in demanding the game designers adopt 3rd Person iso TB. There's nothing "wait and see" about that. Everyone knew from day one that was likely the direction Bethesda was going to go. Saying you had a "wait and see" attitude about Bethesda with those kinds of conditions is like saying you have a "wait and see as long as it stars Sean Connery" attitude about the next Bond movie.

    My point is that there is no point in Bethesda listening to your complaint about things that have already been decided. You've made it very clear that wanted 3rd person iso TB. Great, Bethesda knows that. They went a different direction. What is complaining more about it serve? It's not going to change. If that's a deal killer, then take Fallout 3 off your list of games to watch and move on. Didn't we all do that after the crappy Brotherhood of Steel game?

    This isn't about vicitims or anything else. It's about moving on because there is nothing you can do about Fallout 3 now. It may fail miserably, in which case it will likely disappear forever. Or, it may do well because not all Fallout fans have the same ideas as the vocal folks on this board. In reality if it sells it will be mostly to people who never played the first games and who will be swayed by the usual things that sway people: previews, reviews, and word of mouth about gameplay.
  20. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Actually, no they didn't. They didn't come here and ask us about anything. They didn't ask us about anything unofficially. They didn't even ask fans on their own boards about anything. That is not at all what they started off with.
    Wait, did you actually read anything at all that BN just wrote?
    You know, the whole bit about selective memory and the fact that we actually enforced 'We don't know shit about what Bethesda will do, just wait and see what they come up with'?

    What middle part are you talking about, exactly? The negative reactions from us came after that announcement. The negative reactions to the possibility of them doing that were long in existence, but as long as they didn't actually announce that they were doing that any 'Ooh, but they're going to do that anyway don't be ridiculous' was sporadic and more or less systematically ridiculed here as being prophesizing.

    Again: nice selective memory.

    Ehm, yes it is. 'Wat and see what Bethesda will do' does not precluding not liking it if certain changes are made to the franchise.

    We've been here for a long while now. In that time we've very carefully distilled what Fallout's core design is. Objectively. From statements made by the original developers. We've made that very clear for a long time, and Bethesda has known all along what we consider to be a true sequel.

    We never went with the 'Wait and see maybe Bethesda will make a brilliant FP RT game' because we all know that such a game could never be considered a true sequel to Fallout as it ignores the most basic core part of Fallout's design: the P&P emulation.

    No they didn't.
    Really, they didn't. It took Bethesda what, 2 years before even coming close to saying anything about the game let alone gameplay.
    No it isn't. It's more like saying we have a "wait and see" attitude about the next Bond movie, as long as it actually features James Bond, romance and some gadgets.
    These aren't some ridiculous requirements, you know. All we're asking is that Fallout 3 be in the same spirit - the same core design as the previous games. Bethesda decided to say fuck that, and essentially continue doing what they 'do best' - Oblivion-style adventures.

    So now, all of a sudden, we still need to wait and see what the actual result will be, even though we know that they changed the core gameplay in such a way that it could never be a valid Fallout sequel?
    Actually, complaining about this game has been pretty productive since you almost can't come across an interview with Bethesda without a question about the negative reaction to the fanbase. That's some pretty good publicity and at least a sign that a lot of people know about the complaints.

    And ignoring Fallout 3 isn't going to work. We're a Fallout fansite. If we don't cover Fallout 3, what exactly are we here for then?