Lonesome Road Talk (obviously spoilers)

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by WelcomeToNewReno, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    And wasn't the terrain more varied in oblivion? For some reason I remember there being swamps and tundra in it.
     
  2. Ophiuchus

    Ophiuchus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Jul 18, 2010
    Nice find. I found that this song (Shelter by Corrosion of Comformity) fits well between Ulysses and the Courier:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAG9otcaSWw[/youtube]

    I'll shut up about the Yes Man issue once and for all, but here's some console commands to make the process easier:

    (Assuming you follow the suggestion to stay on good terms with NCR)
    setreputation 000f43de 1 0 - sets NCR fame to 0.

    setreputation 00118f61 1 0 - sets Strip fame to 0.

    I'm pretty sure your ranking with CL will be below 0 if you follow Yes Man up to a certain point, but I'm not certain. Make sure to enter these commands before escaping the first silo to ensure you get all dialogue choices.
     
  3. Old Man Vee

    Old Man Vee First time out of the vault

    52
    Jul 30, 2011
    Ulysses talks about a talking machine that you bring in, that talks to other machines, waking up some larger machine.
     
  4. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    463
    Sep 12, 2011
    He actually is rambling almost incoherently at you, because he himself is confused and lost. He's taking out his frustration of the loss of that mythical society out on the Courier.

    Ulysses' characterization seems to be that of a man who has gone insane because of the destruction at the Divide, as he dives straight into a lot of logical fallacies, and attacks the very concept of "Don't shoot the messenger." Or the Courier, so to speak.

    He blames the Courier for the destruction at the Divide, because the Courier is the person who brought whatever it was that woke up the missiles underground. He blames the Courier for being a courier, a carrier of news and items, who is not responsible for the messages itself, just that it gets to the people they are addressed to safely. That's broken logic right there and something that at least has the option of being fixed about Ulysses through dialogue.

    If whatever at the Divide was really the panacea for the Wasteland, it devastated Ulysses to the point where he more or less left the Legion and simply wandered as a Courier himself, thinking that you were dead. When he realized the Courier was still alive, he suddenly shifted all of his anger at you.

    Ulysses is designed as an antagonist, no matter what path the Courier himself has chosen. Even as Legion, Ulysses is against what the Legion represents, as he found something supposedly better.

    And then remember, that he doesn't see his own hypocrisy. He tells Christine that her quest for revenge is meaningless and that she can't "Let Go And Begin Again." Ulysses can't let go of his idea of a lost paradise and begin a new one himself. And, like Christine, if he lives, he decides to watch over a land of ghosts instead of taking initiative in a new world.

    Ulysses could have been a much better foe if there was some better background for him. He has several attributes necessary for the 'villain' in a story - he has flawed motivation and he has ability to see that his plans can come to fruition.

    It's a very difficult character to pull off when we don't know what kind of place the Divide was before it was destroyed, and thus we don't get a good feeling for what Ulysses had become attached to, or what we (the Courier) destroyed. We have little clues, but we don't have a big picture, so we as players are unable to feel guilt over what Ulysses lost.

    Then again, like Christine, we don't actually know for certain what she lost, either.

    The theme of Lonesome Road, is that every little choice made has consequences. We don't get a choice that sets up this scenario, but then, we didn't get a choice whether or not to get shot in the head over the Platinum Chip. However, we at least find out what the Platinum Chip means to New Vegas and the world. We don't get that same satisfaction with Lonesome Road.

    It's implied, never stated, that he simply took on the job of a courier after leaving the Divide, as some kind of way to collect his thoughts, trying to move on. He thought you were dead, and then when he saw your name at the Mojave Express, he walked off and then headed off to Big Mountain and then the Divide.

    And to expand upon your statement. Specifically, we don't see how Ulysses understood what the Platinum chip was worth, nor do we understand how he knew "death surrounded" the chip specifically, as opposed to a couple of dice or some other random casino stuff.

    People just think that Victor is somehow special because none of the other bots under House's control have unique personalities, aside from his dirty "Girl-bots." Yes Man is a rogue element not in House's control, so everyone assumes Victor is the same way.

    Victor is clearly under House's control, but there's only so much Victor is capable of, which is why House takes on human analogues (Benny, the Courier, possibly the guy who was hanging out with Victor in Goodsprings for awhile).
     
  5. overseeer106

    overseeer106 First time out of the vault

    41
    Aug 11, 2011
    anyone know if you can talk to ulyesses to help you and still blow up CL and NCR? cuz i want to get the armors and weapons
     
  6. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    463
    Sep 12, 2011
    [spoiler:99119446cd]Yes. If you talk him down, he doesn't care one way or the other which path you take.[/spoiler:99119446cd]
     
  7. overseeer106

    overseeer106 First time out of the vault

    41
    Aug 11, 2011
    thanks and how did that I am STOOPID! thing get in there? :shock:
     
  8. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    Well the "choice" towards the character (and to sme extend, the player) is that you just can turn your back and walk away. If it it would "just" be some sidequest in the maingame, it would even make more sense. As it is right now, ofcourse we have all this "omfg last dlc gonna be epic this is ulyseses etc111". MCA perfectly mastered it by the giviing the character some doubts. In my opinion, the divide just served as some showcase. "WTF? I just dropped a nuke? Shit..." - I am pretty sure I was not the only one who did not see that coming - it just said "pull triger - oh well, that door will open" - but it did not - it was some "accident" nicely tied in the narrative to go on. The next thing is you fighting in the couriers mile... :) IMO - LR was not about LR itself , but about - in some meta-gamey-aspect- the player itself. It is the player who followerd Ulysses path. It was the player who decided to walk the lonesome road. THe road has only a start and an end, nothing substantial inbetwen. The courier also directly influences stuff wether he likes it or not. If you don't help, the railroad between McCarran and the Strip gets blown up. The courier is indirectly responsible for Goodsprings fate. The Ghouls near Novac face some... unfortunate future if you just walk straight to the Strip...

    The narrative and the premise was superb. It shows, how even "non choices" affect the big deal greatly.

    And this is what (for me) Ulysses is about. He is basically "butthurt" for some accident you did before, even if you didn''t intend do that. It is all about "fate"- or the free will. Man. I love Ulysses. :)
     
  9. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    463
    Sep 12, 2011
    My beef with the only choice being "you can just turn your back and walk away" is that leaves no third option. It was one of my issues with Fallout 3, which presented "choice" as either doing what is presented to you or walk away. You either go into Tranquility Lane or you just leave Dad stuck inside a VR prison.

    If you don't commit to the Road, nothing happens. When we have a choice in the Fallout games, it's an educated, informed choice, rather than one based on "fate."

    Mille viae ducunt homines per saecula Romam

    Ulysses says himself, "All Roads lead to home." A slight variation on an old Proverb "All Roads Lead To Rome," meaning that multiple paths can lead to the same goal.

    Here, the choices you've already made (which faction you represent - literally who you have the best reputation with) is the choice that is most visible within the DLC up until you finally come face to face with Ulysses.

    Is there another road here on this one? No. No "Road Less Traveled", no forks in the road to get to the destination, just a straight line that curves around a few times and has a couple bumps you blow away with a laser detonator.

    Your idea that the Lonesome Road is about the destination contradicts itself with the message Lonesome Road actually gives us: that the journey is more important than the destination.

    What we have in Lonesome Road is a journey that picks up in the middle without stopping to give us a point where we can anchor ourselves, as viewers, so we can invest ourselves into the character of Ulysses. The only way we can really do that is with a scavenger hunt in the middle of a rather tense survival situation.

    We have enough time to invest ourselves into ED-E, because he relays much of his journey, his odyssey, through his own recordings as we go along.

    The best we can get from Ulysses are his holotapes left scattered about Big Mountain and throughout the Divide. The problem there is that Ulysses' holotapes are scattered, and you practically need a guide map to find them all. I think it would have helped the narrative a lot more if some of these holotapes were located a little closer to quest-important locations or became necessary for the narrative (they're not).

    Yes, Ulysses is a wounded character, hurt because history has not availed him the faith that he desperately wants to give. His history with the Legion destroying the history of the Twisted Hairs, with the White Legs corrupting the Twisted Hairs' legacy, further buried when he found the Hoover Dam and the NCR - the world did not need the Tribe he invested himself in.

    When he finally found a place that he could believe in, it was taken from him. What's not in those holotapes or your conversations with Ulysses is what he hoped to find in Hopeville.

    We don't get enough for us, as viewers, as readers, as listeners to this man with an unmoving face and unblinking eyes, is what the Divide - that radiated husk of an Old World-style city with a new hope for the world - really meant to him. -We- don't get what it was that the Courier had so "ignorantly" destroyed. Not in the way the narrative could have told us.

    If all Ulysses had said is that he wanted to find a new home (instead of telling the Courier that the Divide was the Courier's home), and the Courier destroyed it, I think that would have said a lot more than the long, confused mess that his words had become.

    The journey is more important than the destination. And though sometimes you may be blown off course, all roads, including the Lonesome Road, lead to home.
     
  10. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    THe other choice is - I know it sounds crappy but technically there it is and Ulysses mentions it - to just turn around, to do whatever we did before. As said, it was quite a nice nod towards the character aswell as the player himself - we just go on in curiosity and would accidently(?) cause havoc.

    I really love this premise.

    And yes, Ulysses *is* a wounded character. I felt pity for him, but my character didn't (I played a "hardcore" Legion character). My character told him he is a traitor and all such, but me, as a player, felt bad for him. I felt bad for him aswell when I met him again at the edge of the divide when he would stare aimlessness into the crater. Even though he had much to say, I feel he kinda wanted to die, no matter what hapens.
     
  11. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    463
    Sep 12, 2011
    Which again, is my big beef with this DLC. There is no other road to travel, just the one laid out before you by Ulysses. If there had been a second path through the wreckage, even if it were more difficult, I think that would have helped the narrative's meaning. Not the path Ulysses laid out for the Courier, but one that can show Ulysses that there are other ways and can give more weight to the argument that you have with Ulysses at the end - it's not the road that Ulysses intended for you to follow, but it's a path that leads to the same destination if the other were denied to you (there's a tiny hint of that when one of those buildings collapse and blocks your way). It would give weight to the Courier when he tells Ulysses that there are other ways, other avenues, other roads to find what he seeks.

    If the Courier could put more dents in Ulysses' armor of faith in the Flag he believed in, I think it would be a lot more compelling. Every time Ulysses thinks he has the Courier pegged as no more than an ignorant messenger, the Courier should have a moment where he can surprise him. A little moment before he cuts off the conversation through ED-E.

    Instead, we get a dialogue path at the end that isn't much more substantial than "oh, right, you did all that stuff for that one faction back in Vegas, so maybe I'm wrong."

    I love the premise, too. I just have mixed feelings about the execution. If there had been just a little bit more put into it, I think it would truly have been the best DLC of them all. As it stands, though, it's good... not great.

    I love the concept of wounded characters. They make the best antagonists. Part of what makes so many of them great is that, at some point, they lose touch with life an reality. The protagonist is the one who puts them back in touch with reality, or puts them out of their misery.

    Ulysses is a great wounded character, with a great backstory. It's the execution of that character within the pacing of Lonesome Road that's not great.
     
  12. hrodwulf123

    hrodwulf123 First time out of the vault

    5
    Jul 30, 2011
    About those missiles in The Divide...is it just me, or do they resemble real-world Titan II ICBMs very closely?
     
  13. burningsnow126

    burningsnow126 First time out of the vault

    67
    Jul 2, 2011
    Ok, so i went through LR with a new playthrough allied with yes-man. I went through the dialogue options without any faction checks (was neutral to ncr and legion). But even though i killed mr. house and was far in the yes-man line, it still gave me the Mr. House duster (its the same design as Ulysses') The 21 duster must be the most difficult to acquire. Anyone get the 21 duster?
     
  14. generalissimofurioso

    generalissimofurioso The Hole Time Orderite

    Jun 17, 2007
    I got it.

    I didn't do any NCR quests or Legion quests and I didn't go into Vegas at all.
     
  15. outofthegamer

    outofthegamer Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Apr 12, 2011
    I didn't even need the flare gun. Just wait until one gets close and use the riot shotgun to pump 3 shots to the face. That usually does the trick.

    Also, has anyone detonated all 30 warheads?? I have played through LR twice and I am stuck at 29. I swear I have searched everywhere, even courier's mile (got the one there), and i just cant find the last one.
    Any tips???
     
  16. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    I think there is 2 at the mile. not sure.

    The one I missed was right out side the first bunker exit before you even get the laser.
     
  17. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    The riot shotgun alone is usually lethal to tunnelers (especially with magnum or slug ammunition), but the flare gun helps a lot on harder levels or on the elevator ride or in the Cave of Abaddon (however that's spelled).

    I'm pretty sure there are two warheads in Courier's mile. That's probably the one you're missing.
     
  18. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    Soooo, correct if I'm wrong but the Courier finding the ED-E replica and bringing him with him was just a (contrived) coincidence, right? But Ulysses needed that particolar eyebot to launch the missiles, right? So what was his original plan? Just to have a chat with the Courier? Am I missing something?
     
  19. KillgoreKillmore

    KillgoreKillmore It Wandered In From the Wastes

    112
    Sep 12, 2011
    Now that you mentioned it, I'm at a loss for any idea to answer this.
     
  20. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    I think his goal was to get the Courier to bring ED-E to him and (hopefully) get the Courier killed in the process. I don't know, Ulysses didn't exactly sound like all his dogs were barking.