Martial Arts

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Grin, May 8, 2009.

  1. Grin

    Grin Still Mildly Glowing

    273
    Jul 2, 2006
    Sitting in front of the PC, havocked, beaten, bruised, aching, BUT satisfied, I have a question, which do you think is the most effective, conditioning, entertaining, etc, etc, form of martial arts?


    Since a while I've bought a membership- card for the sports center in my local university campus. It's a great deal really, they fashion a wide array of sports and fitness, in which I can partake as much as I wish for only €80,- a year, while my own gym already costs €30,- a month.

    Suffice to say, I've been experimenting with all sorts of sports lately and I wanted to pick up a martial art again. I used to do Tae- Kwondo and I really liked (and still do, after trying it again) the speed and agility as well as the power focus of this sport. I also tried Judo and Jiu-Jitsu which were totally new for me and required a total different mindset then Tae- Kwondo because of the grappling and throwing orientation.
    I must say that I prefer Jiu- Jitsu because this does not focus on throwing and grappling alone, but also on kicking and punching. BUT, since I already made up my mind about Tae- Kwondo, I'm thinking about taking up Judo, partially because combining the two will be more effective technique- wise (Judo close, Tae- Kwondo far) but also because a Judo- workout focuses on strength and endurance which complements the Tae- Kwondo workout.


    Anybody here who wishes to support me in my choice? Or any martial- artists themselves who have different opinions and visions?

    - Joey.

    EDIT:

    - Grin.
     
  2. Daimyo

    Daimyo Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
    Orderite

    Oct 26, 2007
    Well, first and foremost I guess it depends on what you want to accomplish. Do you want to get fit, do you want to show off, do you want to compete, are you interested in the cultural and spiritual aspects or do you simply want to be able to defend yourself should you be attacked in real life?

    Martial Arts in Norway is often transltated into the Norwegian word “Kampsport” meaning Combat Sports. The translation says a bit about which kind of Martial Arts are included in the term and often refer to the arts that have become sports as well like Taekwondo or Karate.

    If your main goal is to be able to defend yourself in real life you should look into the ones that are not sports like Krav Maga. I'm not saying Taekwondo or Karate will not work in a self defense situation, but it could be wise to widen your perspective a bit before you decide what to go for.

    Is your main goal anything else it all comes down to taste and preference or even availability in your vicinity ...
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You should not ask such a question in a serious way, cause the issue is that you will never get a satisfying answer.

    To maybe try it that way, the best form of martial arts is the one "you" like. Effectivness, conditions etc. and all what follows out of it comes from your own activity how dedicated you practise the martial arts. Just like anything else.

    I am doing now for quite some time Judo, Jujitzu and Karate, though Judo and Jujitzu with a real passion while Karate more for the condition and only sometimes. I cant really say which one is better I just know I love Judo/Ju the most. Doesnt mean its "the" best one.
     
  4. Eternal

    Eternal Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    461
    Nov 4, 2008
    I'm not personally a fan of Tae Kwon Do, I find that the uniformity of the moves and stances leads to a less usable real-world form of martial arts. It is however a very good art to use for competitive purposes for that exact reason, something that has a uniformity and is well set can be measured and there for graded.

    My personal favorites are Aikido and Jeet Kun Do when it comes to unarmed combat.

    Aikido is interesting in its form and fluidity, and Jeet Kun Do is specifically tailored to each persons strengths in terms of what is taught or emphasized. Also who doesn't love Bruce Lee ;)
     
  5. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    Krav Maga is pretty interesting, sadly there are no clubs in my area that teach it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga
     
  6. Chancellor Kremlin

    Chancellor Kremlin Mildly Dipped

    528
    Nov 17, 2008
    Yeah im taking Krav Maga next year when I get back to England.

    Its a no nonsense combat skill, so no kata's and all that (Something I hated in Karate when I was a kid). Its also quite brutal in that they teach you anywhere on the body is a target, and that includes the groin, eyes and neck. As in war, there are no rules.

    That comes in pretty hand in situations where you are most likely to face more than one combatant. They have already forfeited any dignity and honour by attacking you in a group, so you are more than entitled to strike 'low' as a counter balance.

    The fact it aims at quickly incapacitating targets mean its a good choice for small to medium builds, especially women.
     
  7. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    things like kick boxing & Muay Thai can be really good for SD, but can also be very bad for the body... kids that start kick boxing at 12 year old often blow out their knee before they're even 30 years old...
    Tae-Kwondo is pretty useful overall.
    Judo is good for balance.
    Aikido is absolutely useless in real life, unless you've had at least 5 years of INTENSIVE training or 10 years of normal practise. training Aikido as self-defense can even be dangerous, since in the early stages the things you learn boost your confidence, but in any real fight, none of these entry-level joint-locking or throwing techniques work...
    (Brazilian) Jiu-Jitsu on the other hand offers quite a bit of useful stuff there, though much of it requires adequate physical strength.

    while far from useless, most martial arts that are also sports, teach you wrong reflexes due to specific sparring rules. Judoka grapple too much, boxers neglect their legs, jiu's might rely too much on questionable joint-locks...

    if possible, i'd strongly suggest finding a good teacher that teaches the self-defense branch of Krav Maga or a variant thereof. (note that the qualities of the teacher are just as important or even more important than the merits of the art as a whole!)
    military or police variants might sound cool, but for a civilian, you should just stick to the SD variants.

    anyhow, Krav Maga gives you a no nonsense approach with 'tricks' that'll usually work. you however do not rely on these tricks, as you never invest everything in one specific move. Krav Maga is a flurry of blows, if one fails, so be it, you're already moving on to the next. Krav Maga also has no dogmas, which i feel is important in SD. the passive-aggressive stance of KM suits me very well. it also has a 'whatever works for you' approach, so you can learn what fits your stance, stature, weightclass, strengths & weaknesses...
    if taught well, it also leaves you with absolutely no wrong expectations when you enter a fight. if anything, SD KM should make you even less willing to get involved in any fight.

    but be very careful of not enrolling in a 'McDojo'. shitty teachers with bloated egos out for your money = shit. make sure you're not bullshitted. Krav Maga before it became commercial was simple... 3 ranks were all: practitioner, trainer/teacher & master (-instructor) (note that i don't know the correct translations in english). if you have no aspiration to teach people, you'll remain a practitioner all your life. that's absolutely normal (unlike some shitty sports that make you pay for exams and belts...).

    a good KM teacher will also tell you that KM isn't an end all be all... any trainer worth his salt will encourage you to expand into other self-defense disciplines. for instance, pure form KM is rather weak in ground fighting, as it is preferred not to go to the ground at all if possible (kills mobility and leaves you open to other assailants). as such, learning some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is perfect to complement that weakness.

    with intensive training, you can grasp the most important basics of KM in only one year! of course, you'll have to train your entire life to indoctrinate yourself and build the correct reflexes (repetition is important for KM). but with 1 year of training, you've got a very good basis to work with, by continuing along the KM path, or branching off to other disciplines, or both.

    (take this as you will, your milage may vary)
     
  8. maximaz

    maximaz Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2006
    If you have a good tae-kwan-do coach, you'll get a lot out of it. I have a friend who was into it since he was a kid and that guy seriously owns. He's a bit of a nut too so that could have something to do with it.

    One thing I can advise is to definitely take up some sort of wrestling as well. I did free-style wrestling for about 7-8 months and in my opinion it's both very useful and also the best workout you can get.

    I've boxed since I was 12 and always argued with my wrestler friends over which is better so I'd never admit it in real life but the fact is I never got such an intense workout as when I did wrestling.

    In a perfect world, I'd combine free-style wrestling with boxing but different forms would do. I've never done Jiu Jitsu but I've always heard good things about it. The bottom line is if you can find good trainers and you like it then definitely go for it.
     
  9. Unno

    Unno First time out of the vault

    68
    Mar 17, 2009
    Wushu > Wing Chun

    Easy to pick up. -Close combat. -Good for both body and mind. -Has a nice flow to it. Might bring some balance and finesse to the 'rigid' techniques(no dis intended) you already know. -It lacks the 'entertaining part' by modern standards.. but that's relative.
     
  10. Lost Metal

    Lost Metal Olde Skull

    249
    Jan 3, 2004
    it was kinda stated earlier but i'll state it again anyway

    boxing and wrestling absolutely kick ass and are easy to pick up in and are super useful in real life situations

    even just boxing or wrestling is fine, the likeliness that you will ever get in a fight with somebody who has training is low anyway, so either boxing or wrestling puts you at a great advantage.

    Doing both though, I believe, is the true key to being a fighting machine.

    Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is a good substitute for wrestling... but I think wrestling is so much funner and easier to pick up on.

    Judo and Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu were very confusing/not fun and didn't seem that practical to me when I tried to learn them. Very hard to pick up I think, unless your a natural or spend years and years training.

    ALSO, I know most people won't agree with me but I think WEIGHTLIFTING is one of the best forms of self-defense.
    Big Muscles are very intimidating for most people, so simply getting big and strong, will make people think twice about trying to fight you. Plus chicks love to fuck us guys with muscles.

    Boxing is the only direct-striking martial art I've ever practiced, so I don't know about taekwondo and karate, muaythai etc...

    Basically I say go with Boxing+Wrestling+Weight Lifting
     
  11. Daimyo

    Daimyo Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
    Orderite

    Oct 26, 2007
    Very true.

    Have seen that combination and it works ...

    Also; size matters in a real life defense situation (or in an actual fight) so Lost Metal has a point as well.

    The main advantage of knowing how to defend one self though is what Sua mentioned; when you know how to handle yourself you also know how dangerous fighting can be, so you will try to avoid fighting at all costs; run, talk, (or often don't talk - just ignore and walk away), bargain, leave ... However, left with no choice - if you are going to do something you better do it properly and then get the hell out of there.
     
  12. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan A Smooth-Skin

    647
    Aug 6, 2008
    Muay Thai with Brasilian Jiu Jitsu would be my choice. I've trained BJJ and it's very physically demanding. I think that MT compliment's it very well in stand-up fights, especially when facing more than one opponent - thinning their ranks before you start taking them to the floor reduces the amount of kicks to the head you can get while you're choking someone unconscious.

    The above poster, when I'm confronted with big guys I'm mostly pretty certain they'll be a lot slower than I am. I'm also more likely to go for the trachea or balls or other sensitive places just to make sure they don't land a lucky one on me. Big guys also make a very satisfying thump when a dude half their body mass pulls an overhead throw on them. More likely to break something in the fall as well.

    Also, it's always better to be under-estimated than over-estimated when getting into a fight.
     
  13. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    well, slow or not, i'd rather not take a punch from a 110kg boxer, if at all possible. ;) luckily, unless he's a streetfighter, boxers tend to leave their groin open to kicks, so too bad for them.
    i'd rather not try this thesis though.

    but as Dexter says, in general i'm more afraid of the small scrawny guys who go batshit insane in a fight than from the jugernauts.
     
  14. Stock

    Stock Still Mildly Glowing

    229
    Nov 17, 2005
    Sigh

    Just buy a gun.
     
  15. lugaru

    lugaru Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    330
    Mar 9, 2009
    I cannot recomend Capoeira enough, it is incredibly fun, the training is tough and you will find yourself doing stunts that you never thought you would. It's not much use in a fight, but honestly I'm not the type of guy who fantasizes about getting in fights anyways.

    I also took Kempo, it is a lot more directly applicable and I find it to be a comfortable middle ground between chinese and japanese martial arts.

    In the end though all you really need a martial art for is to learn how to fall without hurting yourself, once you know that odds are you will live a longer life.
     
  16. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    martial arts do not have the same function as a gun. they're not alike in any way and are not exclusive at all...

    more like breakdancing than a martial art. when i had my first year of KM behind me, my brother had done 5 years of Capoeira. we squared off for fun and it's pretty obvious who got his ass kicked.

    that said, it does teach decent dodging skills and also is a very good work out.
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Kata has a reason and important role in the martials arts that make use of it. I would not call it nonsense combat skill ...

    By the way Jujutsu is teaching you similar principles about the body that every or almost every place is one you can attack, at least the very vulnerable targets you mentioned like groin, eyes etc.

    I do not know anything about Krav Maga. And I understand that one might not like the Kata as he does not see a sense in it, or might think its tedious. But it has its place in martial arts just as the learning of vulnerable points. I really doubt that people like Kano or Mifune would have practised so much the Kata for their martial arts if it was "senseless". In situations or attacks that have only combat in mind the kata is definetly secondary, but its not useless as together with the other facets of the training makes a complete overal picture at least for some martial arts. I mean it has a reason why quite a few martial arts still practise the Kata even after a long period of time. That it doesnt count in the same way for every martial arts is clear, but as already mentioned the ones that make use of it do so with a reason.

    Which I would deventualy consider if it would be just about the aspect of defence.

    A gun doesnt train your body. Its a somewhat improper comment to mention guns. Particularly Judo is practised with general fitness in mind and to have a sport for matches and contests not for actualy real defence, which it "could" be used eventualy but is not the goal of the training or sport most martial arts have own directoins and different targets. For some it is fun to train something and test their skills against each other some like to buy guns train with them and see whos the most accurate shooter. I doubt everyone has a gun just for defence or to even actualy really kill someone.
     
  18. Eternal

    Eternal Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    461
    Nov 4, 2008
    If anime has taught me anything its that Martial Arts > Guns every time ;)

    I totally forgot to mention that I love to watch real drunken kung-fu that stuff is amazing.

    And I've researched and read a ton about ALMOST every martial art listed in here, which is why I'm surprised I've NEVER even heard of Krav Maga. I'll have to look it up sometime :)

    What about weapon based martial arts? I'm pretty much obsessed with Ni Ten Ichi and Iai style sword fighting.
     
  19. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Crni Vuk, strictly speaking, Katas are replaced in KM for the benefit of real life training and repetition for the benefit of 'more useful' muscle memory. the idea is that repeating a movement is all fine & dandy against imagined opponents, but a lot more useful when actually done against a person. :)

    that said, KM does have a lot of things that could be compared to Katas anyway, but are a lot less structured. it might not feel like a Kata when practising, but basically you're doing the same in my eyes.
     
  20. lugaru

    lugaru Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    330
    Mar 9, 2009
    A friend of mine took LimaLama which is one of the ugliest martial arts I've ever seen, when he would break down the Katas he would be like "neck, groin, neck, stomach, neck, groin, groin, groin". I would joke that every fight ends with running before the police show up. It did not help that his sensei was a little psycho too.

    Also my sister took Judo and that was cool, she justed to use me as a practice dummy when I was like 12 so I got really good at hitting the ground without killing myself. I didint learn anything myself until I started going to college though.