Paris attacks - ongoing

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Atomkilla, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    A very effective attack. More than hundred people dead. Islamophobia and xenophobia on the sharp rise. Country completely shaken, as well as whole EU. The whole West, really. Calls for complete border closure for refugees and calls for blood. I do believe ISIL is behind this. If they really are, it didn't take much to sow chaos.

    Placing my bets on west doing absolutely nothing. Except maybe increasing air strikes. Remember the 13th of November.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    It seems that France has a lot of problem in dealing with foreign cultures. I am not really educated on it, just what I heard. But seems France is a lot more xenophobic compared to Germany.

    I have no clue why those horrorible things happen in France, Britain, Spain so regularly and many other western nations while Germany is relatively peacefully, I mean the last time we had really to deal with terrorism on such scale here was with the RAF and a hostage situation 1972 in Munich.

    Maybe no one ever want's to mess around with the Germans? Or maybe we are doing something right for once? No clue.
     
  3. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Considering how ridiculously easy this is to do, even for someone untrained and uneducated, it's a goddamn miracle this doesn't happen more frequently. So far, we have lead a very sheltered life here in the west.

    As focus shifts from localized assymmetric wars, I'm guessing we will only see more of these. Especially since this one was so successfull, copycats are bound to pop up.

    The only thing you need to have/do is:
    • Purchase an illegal weapon and ammunition on the black market (or import one through jihadi friends)
    • Train yourself in the manipulation of the firearm (while actually firing helps, you can do a lot without that even)
    • Decide on a viable target with least chance of resistance (easy enough, police presence is not huge here and civilians are never armed)
    • Decide on a mode of transport ensuring you & your weapon are not found out before reaching your target (proper transportation medium to obscurfate the firearm is not hard to find)


    What's "different" with this attack though, is the coordination. Usually this kind of stuff fails due to communication between people being intercepted by the authorities or someone leaking information. So the way to work around this is to only work in very small groups of people who only discuss things in real life. This means smaller scale attacks (like the jewish museum, Charlie Hebdo,...).
    I'm curious to see who these people were & how they planned it all.
     
  4. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010

    Don't think that these hounds of war don't have something in preparation for Germany too. Attacking Paris twice in one year may seem a bit strange as opposed to diversifying targets, but that doesn't mean they won't try it again somewhere else.

    Video of victims escaping the theater. NSFW

     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    But still, when was the last time Germany really suffered from such attacks. France in particular has been the target of at least 3 very serious terrorist attacks - albeit I have no clue who's really responsible for the attacks now, it's still terrorism.

    Germany is pretty peacefull, more peacefull compared to most of it's neighbours, and not just like France, I mean look at Hungary and their right wing, they pretty much fight their own people right now.

    I assume this is mainly because Germany is not really very militaristic. I mean there must be SOME reason why it has been so peacefull for the last 35 years.
     
  6. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    One on the ground is moving.
    What long, horrible and dreary minutes, lonely too, to lay there and just wait. People run away, no sirens sounding yet. Those "10-20 minute response time" quickly become eternities in such situations...

    Sad to think about..
     
  7. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    It's a good question. I think partly it's due to the 'work' Germany has had to do to deal with the guilt of WW 2, the division of the nation, etc. Dealing with the guilt has given Germany a pretty good moral compass that it can use to deal with situations for example in foreign politics. Germany isn't very rash to send it's military fighting in some far away nation bombing little brown babies in clay huts. Germany is similar to Nordic countries in that it is 'the worlds concience', in a way.

    And yes, RAF was a learning experience for them. Also even though some Germans disagree, I think that Germany is still a very efficient country that does things in a very thorough way. Quite a bit of bureucracy there, maybe that helps against terrorism.

    Having said that, I remember that there was at least one shooting that committed by an Arab/Muslim in Germany. Not sure if it qualifies as 'proper' terrorism though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Frankfurt_Airport_shooting
     
  8. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    * 4.8 million Muslims in Germany (5.8% of the country’s population)
    * 4.7 million Muslims in France (7.5%)

    However:

    * The foreign-born Muslim population in Germany is primarily made up of Turkish immigrants, but also includes many born in Kosovo, Iraq, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Morocco.
    * The roughly 3 million foreign-born Muslims in France are largely from France’s former colonies of Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia.

    source: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/15/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

    France past relations with their muslim colonies were not that great, so i wonder if those old ties (via their population that immigrated from those colonies) have anything to do with them being attacked more than others.
     
  9. Nas92

    Nas92 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    198
    Sep 8, 2012
    Nah, everything's pretty much in order now. Orbán united the entire nation behind his closed borders policy, and with Jobbik's past shilling for Turkey and Iran (cause they're against the jews or whatever their reasoning was), Orbán's power will remain firm for the rest of his life. It's the most major political turn-around I have ever seen, half a year ago I would have thought Orbán was guaranteed to lose the next elections or maybe even be violently deposed, but now it's all over. Not even all the major problems with Orbán's regime will change a lick, sadly enough. There are people who could maybe have a chance against him, but only a very slim one.

    Yeah, I thought about that too. But I think this attack doesn't actually signal that they hate France more, I think part of the reason for the attack to be in Paris was because Charlie Hebdo is still fresh in people's memories.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I guess that plays a role.

    Like everything, all of this has probably thousands of reasons, of which many but not all have to do with fundamentalism and politics. I can remember that a young muslim once said about France that the largest source for islamic fundamntalism are actually the prisons in France. No clue if that is true, but it would make sense I guess. A lot of their young muslims experience xenophobia and racism at some point, not a very violent form of racism, more the kind of where you don't get a decent job if your last name sounds islamic - a problem that also exists in Germany, it really is not unique to France. But they might be much less liberal regarding the Islam, but I dont know it. Criminal activites seem to be a big problem with the minorities in France, particularly those that have their roots in France's former colonies. So they end up in prison eventually, either because of frustration or not getting any decent jobs. And there they get in contact with the radical fundamental side of Islam.

    It does sound catchy to a young person who's frustrated with his life if someone tells him that he's not alone, and that he's special, that all of the problems actually have a reason and that the establishmet that actually caught him is at fault and not his life style. And why would he not agree with them? He might have experienced racism here and there already. Maybe even by the police. When you look at the fighters and terrorists, you see very often young people, barely out of their teens. When was the last time a 60 year old was blowing himself up or taking hostages?

    I think it is about time to see terrorists and fanatics also as victims, not that I say they should not be convicted or what they do is justifable. Quite the oposite. But, demonizing terrorism and meeting fanatism with radicalism has almost never really solved the issue in the past. At least I can't remember even one case where it solved it. Not in Spain with the ETA, not with the IRA and Britain, the RAF in Germany or the Hamas/Hisbollah in Israel. Saying that you can't reason with them, that you can't treat them as humans, criminalizing everyone who's eventually a fanatic, is actually always playing directly in their hands. They manipulate people, and they do it very intelligently. So the more radical the west becomes in it's measures - which are almost always ineffective, the more difficult it becomes to actually fight terrorism.
     
  11. Juza The Cloud

    Juza The Cloud Nanto Goshasei

    606
    Jun 3, 2015
    From what I read, the Intellegnce cummunity believes that this was an attack on the West on not on France in particular. Paris is a major travel hub and convient to fly to from many places.

    Update: My cousin is okay and unharmed! I was pretty nervious when we did not hear from her for a few hours; luckily she was out of the city and on her way back to her apt when all this happened.

    Update 2: Daesh has claimed responability and it was directed at France in particular, France has been involved in air strikes in Syria etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  12. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Don't forget that France has taken an active military role in supporting its old colonies when faced with islamic violence. This is largely not the case with other european nations. Most recently, there was the french military intervention in Mali.

    I would think that the only more aluring european target would be Great Britain and more specifically London, but that is logistically far more annoying for the terrorists.
     
  13. Nas92

    Nas92 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    198
    Sep 8, 2012
    I've been looking at YouTube comments, right-wing twitter, certain Reddit boards and I could not stop thinking about this. I wonder why.
    Btw, any more serious backlash you guys heard about? Minus the Calais fire, we know about that.
     





  14. Of course there is a right-wing coalition that's first priority is to stick its dick as far up France's ass and take advantage of the situation.

    I, however from what I witness, am seeing that falter. Due to people coming out of the amnesia that has caused all the political atrocities of the past thanks to the free-flow informational awareness of the internet, a lot of the hate-speech is falling on death ears.

    We need to question the roles of Israel, Syria, and the super-powers and how they effect the middle-east.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2015
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  15. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    If we're just going to ignore the bomb ISIS planted on a Russian airliner two weeks ago, resulting in 224 deaths...
     
  16. Shardik

    Shardik Still Mildly Glowing

    291
    Nov 5, 2015
    Glad to hear your cousin is safe.

    My aunt and uncle are currently on a river cruise in Europe (the Danube, I think) and had decided to add a few extra days onto the end of their vacation to visit Paris before coming back to the US. I'm guessing that's not going to happen now.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Damn... this is going to make more support for Middle East bombing and rile up the whole region against the west gaining ISIS more recruits and resources. We've seen it before in Somalia, where American intervention started up even more terrorism.
     
  18. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    Hopefully not. I hope they use a more smarter way to go about it, fixing relations with the Muslim population in France and supporting a more humane view of Islam.
     
  19. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2004
    Am I the only one who thinks that there would be no ISIS if Sadam was still around? Reap what you sow.

    Also, if the US wouldn't be so busy supporting Syrian rebels to overthrow Assad perhaps they could join forces with the Russians and get rid of them for good. But no, let's overthrow another middle east leader who keeps things tidy, destabilize the whole area and help organizations like ISIS appear and gain strength.
     
  20. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I actually agree. Saddam wasn't a good person, but he was the 'evil' glue that held the middle east relatively together. Then again this shit started in Afghanistan.