Playing a neutral or evil characters?

[B5C]

I'm now starting a character who is neutral after I accidentally deleting my Good character save file on my Xbox.

I believe playing Evil is pointless. When I was good they only problem I had was the Talon Company, but when i played Evil. I had to deal with the Regulators and Talon Company. I thought being evil I can join or be friendly with the Talon Company. Which is not the case after getting shot by them even after I blew up Megaton.

Seems like F3 wants you to be a good guy.

 

[Roflcore]

Their is no real impact since you can change your level of karma very fast and only mercs hiring depends on it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

sorry to say this without offense.

But you cant play a real "neutral" character in Fallout 3. Almost any task you complet in the game slaps a "karma stamp" on your head and Bethesda, just like almost any kind of game out there labes neutral as a person who is doing good & bad things in equal manners.

For example, why should it make me a neutral person if I blow up Megaton and decide afterwards to give away purified water to homeless people or donating money to a church? By the way the only way to become a neutral person in Fallout 3 if you are good is by doing "crimes" and thus lowering your karma with stealing or killing. For the case one asks "what is really neutral" well I dont know it ... I have no intelligent defintion for this. But I think when its about that in RPGs Planescape comes as close to playing "neutral" characters as it can get.

 

[Deadman87]

My evil character got ruined the second I entered little lamplight to get to the geck.

In order to get in... I actually had to go and save a bunch of kids from raiders.

Sigh...

 

[Public]

I think it's kinda moronic to save kids from death, and those kids are actually unkillable...where is the logic?

 

[k9wazere]

Thing is, crpgs only look at actions. They have no understanding of motives. If you help someone, the game assumes you are good-natured. If you steal something, the game universally decides you are being evil.

Most crpgs have this same fault. There is no neutral path, and in order to maintain "neutral" in the eyes of the game systems, you simply have to perform similar numbers of "good" and "evil" actions.

After helping overthrow the evil dictator, you then have to go out and slaughter some children in the marketplace. Lo and behold, you are "neutral" afterwards.

It doesn't make any sense. You have to go either full-out good or full-out evil, or admit your character is psychotic.

 

[Public]

So if I kill bunch of innocent, poor, little babies "on my way" to kill an evil, blood thisty,Bush-alike dictator, it will still make me a hero?

 

[k9wazere]

For the case one asks "what is really neutral" well I dont know it ... I have no intelligent defintion for this. But I think when its about that in RPGs Planescape comes as close to playing "neutral" characters as it can get.

I believe neutrality is a mind-set, rather than how you act.

One possible meaning of neutral (you could even argue evil), is someone who is primarily selfish. He does whatever keeps the majority happy, which normally involves abiding by the law. He may do some good things begrudgingly, only to earn favour. He doesn't break the law because he doesn't want to be arrested. He has no real interest in being nice for its own sake.

Then you could have someone who tries to keep himself honest in a corrupt system, and might be called neutral. He doesn't want to put his neck on the line by going to the police, but he doesn't want to get involved with the criminals either. He turns a blind eye, because he knows you have to pick your battles to survive. Life isn't black and white, he reasons.

FO3, on the other hand, would give you two quests: help the police (+karma) or become a gangster (-karma). The only neutral path would be to not do anything, but then you are essentially avoiding all the content, and you'd get no XP! A failing of most crpgs.

 

[Public]

So Bethesda by that tried you tell us

"What? You wanna be neutral? Ok then, be neutral...you loser."

 

[k9wazere]

So Bethesda by that tried you tell us

"What? You wanna be neutral? Ok then, be neutral...you loser."

In fairness to Beth, it's like that in BG and pretty much any crpg. You either work for the good guys or you work for the bad guys.

If you don't work for either you can't gain experience.

To be "neutral" you have to work both sides 50/50.

It's a crappy system, but it's the same system we've always had.

 

[TorontoReign]

True. The neutral aspect should be explored more in most RPG's. Maybe when I make one I'll change that.

 

[Public]

So Bethesda by that tried you tell us

"What? You wanna be neutral? Ok then, be neutral...you loser."

In fairness to Beth, it's like that in BG and pretty much any crpg. You either work for the good guys or you work for the bad guys.

I know that, I was just kidding, you know...playing around..and stuff.

nevermind.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

So Bethesda by that tried you tell us

"What? You wanna be neutral? Ok then, be neutral...you loser."

In fairness to Beth, it's like that in BG and pretty much any crpg. You either work for the good guys or you work for the bad guys.

If you don't work for either you can't gain experience.

To be "neutral" you have to work both sides 50/50.

It's a crappy system, but it's the same system we've always had.

Well, TBH Witcher managed to be a game with a distinctive 'neutral' path in it using the same very system. So it's doable.

 

[Crni Vuk]

So if I kill bunch of innocent, poor, little babies "on my way" to kill an evil, blood thisty,Bush-alike dictator, it will still make me a hero?

In Bethesdas* world?

Yes.

*The outcast drop "Fingers" in Behtesdas Fallout bizaro world, since only bad people drop fingers though that should tell one already enough

*snip*

I guess then most usual people can be classified or seen as "neutral" since they do only follow their "usual" life without the intention to hurt anyone.

 

[Dead Guy]

I got the impression that fallout worked around that problem with the neutrality by always giving you the option of being really obnoxious about getting a reward for helping out. Perhaps you got good Karma anyway I don't know, but then at least you could clearly tell the game that your motivation was selfish in nature. To me the most annoying thing is that FO3 has to TELL you that you've been a bad little psychopathic killer when you steal a pink plate from a table. It even has to play you a spooky sound effect so you really know what a horrible thing you just did. Give me a break. That shit gets old real quick when there's a lot of ammo lying around belonging to someone else.

 

[Ravager69]

In terms of F3, a hero is someone who would rather fight Behemoths with his fists or teeth, rather than steal ammo from some asshole who won't need so much of it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

In terms of F3, a hero is someone who would rather fight Behemoths with his fists or teeth, rather than steal ammo from some asshole who won't need so much of it.

And a real hero doesnt sleep in the beds of bad people he just killed before! (or takes their stuff to begin with!)

 

[rcorporon]

I remember the Beth guys promising us all a deep, rich, neutral way to solve any problem.

More lies it seems...

 

[Ausdoerrt]

In terms of F3, a hero is someone who would rather fight Behemoths with his fists or teeth, rather than steal ammo from some asshole who won't need so much of it.

And a real hero doesnt sleep in the beds of bad people he just killed before! (or takes their stuff to begin with!)

Wait, I thought the real hero did not sleep in other people's beds because he was physically prevented from doing so? Yet it's fine to share a bed with a radiated skeleton >__<

 

[Dubby]

I think it's kinda moronic to save kids from death, and those kids are actually unkillable...where is the logic?

To stay in the "Rated M for Mature" safety zone.

I remember the Beth guys promising us all a deep, rich, neutral way to solve any problem.

More lies it seems...

You should of heard what they said about the "Radiant AI" for Oblivion. Their "demonstration" of it was actually -all- pre-scripted.

-

Bethesda's ideas of Fame, Infamy, Reputation, Karma, etc. are all rehashes of the same; and poorly executed; idea. Honestly, it's a joke.

Me? I like the D&D system
<table border="1" bgcolor="50,50,50" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="2">
<tr>
<td>Lawful Good</td>
<td>Neutral Good</td>
<td>Chaotic Good</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Lawful Neutral</td>
<td>True Neutral</td>
<td>Chaotic Neutral</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Lawful Evil</td>
<td>Neutral Evil</td>
<td>Chaotic Evil</td>
</tr>
</table>
(i have no idea what that giant space is there )