Skills in Fallout 4: What We Know

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by Yamu, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    The topic of whether or not Skills make an appearance in Fallout 4 (and if so, in what form) seems to have caused a lot of confusion on the internet at large. I figured we could use a space of our own to get things straight, theorize, fling poo at each other (gently, now, folks), and/or lament the coming of the end times, as you deem necessary.

    First, some educational material for the more audiovisually inclined, courtesy of YouTube's FudgeMuppet, aka the publisher of the first decent video breakdown I found when I randomly googled the subject. Seems pretty decent at his job. My apologies if he's a known child murderer or a console enthusiast or something, I don't really keep up with you kids and your vidgy games commentators these days:



    Now, the long and the short of it for those who didn't/can't watch the video is this: SKILLS AS WE KNOW THEM ARE MOST LIKELY NOT GOING TO EXIST IN THE GAME, though it's likely certain perks (or some other replacement) will have similar names and functions. This probably comes as a surprise to very few of you, but if you weren't sure or if you happened to find your way here because you're that one girl that's been stalking me online since High School, there it is. In their place is likely going to be a system of ranked perks. What we know so far, as well as some minor related points of interest:


    • There is no skills tab on the Pipboy, nor is mention made on the SPECIAL tab of the stats being connected to any skills whatsoever. They do, however, seem to govern or directly influence several in-game actions that have traditionally been the province of skills.
    • Instead of governing skill points per level, Intelligence now governs your rate of experience gain.
    • Yes, Bobbleheads do exist, but their function at this point is uncertain. SPECIAL Bobbleheads are confirmed, but the stand contains two other rows with 13 spaces in total-- the exact number of skills present in Fallout 3.
    • There are 7 columns on the perk chart, each corresponding to a SPECIAL stat, each ten rows deep, for a total of 70 base perks. Several pictures on the chart have been identified as returning art from previous perks.
    • In the crafting interface, certain perks are listed as requirements for crafting certain items, and each is listed with a required level, indicating that some perks, at least, will have multiple ranks. Confirmed are Gun Nut, which looks to be necessary for working on traditional projectile weapons and components, and Science!, used in the crafting and modification of energy weapons.
    • In the "Power Armor Garage" background seen on Bethesda's Fallout mainpage, a full, if undersized, version of the perk chart can be seen. Several publications that would traditionally be considered skill books (Grognak, Tumblers Today, Guns and Bullets) can be seen on the magazine rack in the same image. Whether these will serve any functional purpose in-game is unknown.

    Aaaand there we have it. It's not much, but it might be more than you knew before. I'd post a blown-up image of the perk chart for anyone curious, but I'm posting from a phone. If you're interested, google up "fallout 4 high res garage" and give the best one you can find the ol' zoom-and-enhance. (And if you do, posting a close-up here for the edification of the masses wouldn't be unappreciated.)

    Personally, I'm willing to give this a shot (as seems to have become my mantra in the last couple of weeks), though I do have reservations, especially concerning the already heavily-altered social aspects of the game. But what are your thoughts? Theories? Impressions? Corrections and additions?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
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  2. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010


    As you requested.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    Steady as she goes, Herr Knut. You're good people.
     
  4. EnclaveKnight

    EnclaveKnight It Wandered In From the Wastes

    188
    Sep 6, 2013
    whether skills are gone for good, or just reworked from their original form, it just means that SPECIAL should be more important that they were in 3/NV.
     
  5. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    A silver lining, for sure. And (as pointed out in the video), the amount of SPECIAL points you get at character creation isn't even enough to bump every stat to 5, so they're forcing you to prioritize this time, too. Of course, it's possible that you get to make further character design decisions and apportionments during the Vault 111 intro, but we'll have to wait and see.
     
  6. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Or it just means that half the perks will be lineal increases to SPECIAL and damage output. The skill cap seems to be at least 50 this time around.
     
  7. Centurion 101

    Centurion 101 First time out of the vault

    38
    Jun 16, 2015
    I am willing to bet that we get to increase SPECIAL stats one by one, probably once ever 5 or 10 levels but maybe through special means as in previous games.
     
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  8. TheGreatCornholio

    TheGreatCornholio First time out of the vault

    96
    Jun 16, 2015
    You probably get more special points as you level up, maybe 1 every 5 levels or so and you get perks every level

    Its different but im willing to give it a chance
     
  9. Centurion 101

    Centurion 101 First time out of the vault

    38
    Jun 16, 2015
    Hey I just thought about one thing: If the skills are perks that means you can relatively easily change around in the CS how the skills move, right? I mean there was a ton of perk mods for Skyrim. So it might be a blessing, allowing for more comprehensive gameplay overhaul mods. The skills were hardcoded into the CS.

    Slightly bummed out that we get FO4 in November but the GECK or CS or whatever in "early 2016".
     
  10. The_Time_Master

    The_Time_Master First time out of the vault

    78
    Jun 16, 2015
    Many a true nerd also covered this:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  11. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    475
    Nov 2, 2013
    @Yamu, there was also a barter and another type of Bobblehead.

    Also updated perk chart :/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
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  12. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    Feck, I got bored just reading that. But knowing Bethesda that's exactly what they're going to do.
     
  13. SAINT_QWERTY

    SAINT_QWERTY First time out of the vault

    2
    Jun 25, 2015


    Just thought this was worth sharing.
    While I understand how difficult that genuine, immersive, and hardcore role-playing itch can be to scratch, me thinks the issue lies here:

    "Role-Playing Games."

    One has to decide what that term means and what is to be expected of a title bearing its stigma. I think "Role-Playing" games are what most people produce today, while "Role-Playing Games" are what old-timey, hardcore fans still desire. They're around, but ask yourself: did the Witcher III (in particular) kick so much ass because of its statistical/strategic elements or because those elements were at your disposal in a super complex, detailed, and beautiful environment?

    Say what you like, but I'm pretty sure TWIII would be considered a "Role-Playing" game. It's about getting sucked into another world, and becoming somebody else. Geralt is the role you're forced to play. But it's alright because it's good. (Ehhhem... Voiced protag?) Sitting around a table playing D&D, staying up way too late with your pals was never about the environment, it was about the experience.

    While I'm all for preservation of hardcore elements, solid writing, and genuine challenges, it's clear that many here at NMA have beef with the fact that the (Fallout [or TES for some of us]) franchise they see as a worthy embodiment of tabletop gaming appears to have been bled dry of its lifeblood in the form of richness and complexity. They're mostly right.

    But changes are bound to come in any medium of entertainment. While classic movies are fantastic experiences in their own right, cinematography etc. has changed/improved drastically, and bringing similar experiences to new generations is what keeps the industry moving. I'm ready for change in the form of re-assessing RPGs and making them work for today without shitting all over the past.

    Sorry for the post.
     
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  14. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    As usual, people who defend the dropping of Skills only think about it combat wise and never ever consider the dialogue options and skill checks.
     
  15. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Kids like roller-coasters.

    FO5 should be a roller-coaster.
     
  16. SAINT_QWERTY

    SAINT_QWERTY First time out of the vault

    2
    Jun 25, 2015
    Why would the same not be applicable to dialogue?
     
  17. TheGreatCornholio

    TheGreatCornholio First time out of the vault

    96
    Jun 16, 2015
    Since skills are being replaced with a combination of perks and special I would imagine there could still be checks that would require a perk or special points
     
  18. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    how could it be with only 4 dialogue options and a single stat even adressing dialogue in rather vague and simplistic terms? I.E. "Affects the chance of charming people".
     
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  19. Madbringer

    Madbringer What is it that crawls behind the glass? Orderite

    Apr 9, 2004
    Except there's nothing to "re-assess". CRPG games that use the classic formula still work and sell today. It's not old, it's not stale, it still has a big audience, as proven by PoE and Torment kickstarters. You don't have to deconstruct the entire genre to make it fit into modern gaming standards, you only need to be able to be good at making games in said genre. That's the crux of it and no amount of apologetic "but it's for the better!" crying is going to change the fact that Bethesda does not give half a fuck about the legacy of Fallout 1 and 2, or CRPGs from that period in general. They want to make the game as simple and processable by modern console children as possible - fair, their right to do so. But let's not say it's creative in any way, that's just offensive to any developer with actual ambition and imagination.

    19 skills to no skills. Innovation! Augment gameplay with your own imagination pertaining to what character you are ROLE PLAYING to "no, you're that guy. That's how you sound". Innovation! Complex dialogue trees to simplistic collar-grabbing vs saint of saints choice. Innovation!

    Please.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
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  20. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    475
    Nov 2, 2013
    If I understand correctly, that would be a significant improvement over the current skills system.

    Step one: replace the percentage system 1-100% with point system 1-5. For example see Wasteland 2:
    Wasteland


    Dues Ex

    Step two: use less regimented system, allowing perks that effect multiple weapon types. e.g. increase your handling of two-handed, one-handed weapons, operating energy or projectile weapons etc...

    So unlike FO where you can spend 100 points on small guns --which is the equivalent of university degree understanding of all major sciences, if spent on science -- you still can't use a minigun any better then school boy because its "big guns".. (wasteland2 system is particularly retard in this regard)

    unfortunately, going by TES example, its more likely that the amount of skills will be reduced.. so at this point, the only thing I willing to betting on is that FO4 will have some kind of special animations tied to various perks.

    No, its just you being you, when ever someone isn't extremely pessimist and actively trashing everything. FYI my first comment on skills was that non-combat skill and their use will be the deciding factor for me, since then we received no new information, so I am not inclined to participate in your wankery
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016