The Brotherhood of Steel as a threat to an Independent Vegas

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Atomic Postman, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    In the Wild Card or House paths, I think the BoS "decision" is probably one of the most morally grey areas in New Vegas, and as such I've been mulling it over a bit. Both Yes Man and House make a fair case that the BoS wouldn't stand for an Independent Vegas with an army of unique and highly powerful Securitrons, they'd see it as an affront to their beliefs and likely wage war. Now, whilst I agree that would be the case in most circumstances I'm not so sure it's the case in all.

    What if the Courier completes all BoS questlines under McNamara, making them a respected member of the Brotherhood (as well as a close friend to Veronica) whilst also taking the Wild Card path to Independent Vegas? Would the Brotherhood still launch an assault? Or would they see the Courier as trustworthy hands for the technology?
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I think they probably would still have issues with it.
    It is of course much "safer" in the hands of a member of the Brotherhood but the player being an outsider not born in the Brotherhood would probably come into play again.

    The Brotherhood would probably realize that they can not wrest the technology and securitrons away from the player with force, it would cost them a lot of their remaining forces and even if they won it would leave them severely weakened afterwards that the NCR or someone else could destroy them.

    They would probably start working on a plan on how to take control of the securitrons.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Sublime

    Sublime It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 5, 2018
    Ok, but what about House ending? Even if you are his lieutenant and a BoS member it's even more unlikely they'll trust House with a Securitron Army, Genius or not (and let's not forget that in the post apocalypse he has a wizard in the tower reputation, more than anything else). However they are left with few troops, so it's sure defeat in open battlefield. My conclusion is that they would be a big annoyance.
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Oh they would definitely target any Securitron, any of House's technology they could get their hands on and they would seek to undermine him in covert ways.
    House is accurate in designating them a possible threat as they have shown in the past the same attitude to the NCR when it started to recover pre war technology and use it again.

    Their obsession about seeking to possess and control all pre war technology or at least weapons, power sources, and computers will be their own undoing.

    The player would probably be even less trusted if the BOS knows that he/she is also a lieutenant of the Mr House or they may seek to use him or her to get access to Mr House's technology or even his headquarters.
    I don't think they would kill Mr House as he possesses to much technological knowledge the BOS desires but they would keep him under lock and key and disconnected from his computers and securitrons while seeking to reverse the neurolink for their own use.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I don't think it matter who has the securitrons. The BoS don't care if you're a member. They're fully prepared to kill their own if they break the rules.
  6. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    I believe they'd be a threat. Even my courier in the yes man endings kills the BOS. They're too dangerous to be left alive in the sense of their obsession for technology and keeping it out of the hands of people and putting it to a more resourceful cause. Imagine how they'd feel about the courier having access to Big MT. tech. I feel they wouldn't risk a war. But they would try so hard to wrestle that tech away from the people my courier seeks to protect.
  7. Lagwagon04

    Lagwagon04 First time out of the vault

    Dec 28, 2016
    I always had a tough time accepting that I had to wipe out the BoS Mojave chapter in my earlier playthroughs. But seeing how the Paladins act in Veronica's quest has made it an easier decision for me. Starting to see them as the organized raiders that they are. House has the right idea for sure.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  8. MPPlantOfficial

    MPPlantOfficial Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Aug 24, 2017
    Yeah. They easily parallel The Khans in this game except the Khans have the option of leaving and starting anew while it's shoot on sight for BOS members in a Vegas dominated by NCR.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    It's like Ulysses says, they're all tribes. Just some have better weapons than others.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    My thoughts exactly! I think one of the Gun Runners said it best in why they don't deal with energy weapons anymore. I believe the BOS was attacking Gun Runner caravans carrying energy weapon in both California and the Mojave because of their major hard on for energy weapons and keeping it for themselves. In my book, yeah they're basically well armed and organized raiders.
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I never really looked at it from that point but it is true.

    I wish that had also been realized in Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 instead of turning them into a major military power that seeks to bring order to the East coast.

    As I mentioned before I think the major reason for this confusion is that because the BOS looks cool and has all kinds of high tech gadgets that they must be a major influential power and good guys instead of the xenophobic and insular order they are.

    The only way the BOS could have survived and perhaps grown is if they had become or stayed a house of technological development as they probably have most of the necessary resources and infrastructure for that.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    It was the Van Graffs. The BoS is barely a presence anymore in the west by NV.
  13. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 8, 2012
    If player didn't broker peace between the two.
    Otherwise NCR will work together with BoS (and will return EVERY sets of power armor looted previously).
    With Free Vegas endings taken (Mr. House ousted, Legion defeated, and NCR jinxed). BoS will likely to extinct within one or two generations due to their own dogmatic restrains--themselves being knight order and thus being 2nd Estate in the Pre-modern europe. (may even be the First Estate too!) and wouldn't like to add strangers into their knightly order (AFAIK the medieval knights usually came from junior (and least priviledged) members of noble family (but i'm not sure ... if IRL euorpean knight order is a separate entity to the Monarch and acts independently. how a Prince or King becomes knight, did he required to join page schools or serving lesser lords before getting crowned (and knighted) in his childhood?).. in this postapoc settings, THEY considered themself nobility and disregard any other powerful families under their 'protection' (in F1 they did much of the knightly protections and there is a form of monarchy in the places like Junktown... which ruled over by Darkwater family/dynasty (also founder), through none of the Darkwater induced into BoS while Vault Dweller became initiate for a time being (but never fully knighted, since after his victory over The Unity, he was banished by Overseer Jacoren and violent upheavals followed in V13, and the 'Return to Surface' faction did left the vault and joined VD's trek to the north, never return to So Cal again). so making a squire out of wastelander 'peasantry' is OUT OF QUESTION.
    unless BoS in westcoast gets an ideology overhaul. they will extinct.
  14. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    Aug 15, 2017
    I didn't use to but in my recent playthroughs I always wipe them out and I always go for the independent ending. Its a matter of pragmatism. If I'm going to be going to war, or at the very least conflict against the NCR, I want my own territory to be as pacified as possible. By force if necessary.
  15. tgawt

    tgawt ye ass

    Jul 9, 2018
    brotherhood of steel invented Juul
  16. tgawt

    tgawt ye ass

    Jul 9, 2018
    sorry just realized i hate that post
  17. scorptatious

    scorptatious Ugly Mutant

    Oct 8, 2012
    I never could bring myself to destroy them on any of my Independent playthroughs.

    I agree that they are a potential threat to New Vegas, but at the end of the day, they're still Veronica's family. No matter how shitty some of them are.

    Besides, considering how few of them there are and how powerful New Vegas' defenses are, they would be hard pressed to do much of anything.

    Of course I'd imagine an Independent Courier could still be a victim of tactical espionage much like House was. So there's always that possibility.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  18. Beardy Unixer

    Beardy Unixer First time out of the vault

    Apr 24, 2018
    The BoS isn't really a threat. They could become an inconvenience in future, but no more than that. They're well on their way to extinction, and they're not particularly highly skilled in either combat or tech anymore. They're having problems with Radscorpion stings, are entirely incapable of removing a simple virus from their own computer systems, verses me, who won the war for Hoover Dam, and can transplant my own brain at will.

    The only reason they might be a threat at all is their power armour and laser weapons.

    Except, I have a pulse gun, a protonic inversal axe, and a stealth suit that really, properly loves me, which is something you could never say for power armour.

    The energy weapons might be a problem for my army of heavily armed securitrons and giant roboscorpions - but not as much as my army of heavily armed securitrons and giant roboscorpions will be a problem for them.

    So I'll let them be until they try something. They just don't even register as a threat on a scale that includes the Tunnelers, NCR, Legion, Boomers, and Enclave remnants.
  19. KingArthur

    KingArthur My Name Is Actually Arthur

    Jun 25, 2018
    I absolutely agree with that, as with what @Pwener said. In my personal opinion, the BoS is dangerous. Like, too dangerous to be allowed to exist. I had that same "a-ha" moment you did when playing; initially I used to just try to broker peace and destroy them only if I had to, but after I Could Make You Care I realized how legitimately awful the Brotherhood was.

    That being said, are there exceptions? Of course; there always are. But at the end of the day the Brotherhood as a unit, as well as their ideals, are a threat to peace and the ruling faction regardless of the ending. And correct me if I'm mistaken, but aside from the BoS-NCR ceasefire ending every ending slide where the BoS live states that they make a general nuisance of themselves.

    But going down the list:

    NCR: As stated before, unless a peace treaty is hashed out, the Brotherhood is both a military threat as well as a general annoyance to the citizens of the Mojave. And even if a ceasefire is declared, I agree with Moore's hesitance to accept it; it's likely gonna result in a lot of disgruntled NCR vets and mutual suspicion from those who remember the war between the two factions.

    Yes Man's Anarchic Utopia: With no acting government, the BoS is free to harass people over tech and continue their xenophobic lifestyle. This is the situation in which the Brotherhood is the most dangerous, even if the Courier is a member of their group; like previous users said, they'll likely try to find a way to take control of the securitrons for themselves.

    House: Same as above, but I feel as though having House in command and having the NCR still at the Long 15 would make citizens of the Mojave a bit safer than the Indie ending in which the Brotherhood is free to run wild. That being said, they'll likely take bigger exception to House being in command than the Courier; unless the Courier isn't a member of the BoS, then they'll likely have the same knee-jerk response, and probably launch guerilla attacks against roaming securitrons or isolated communities that they believe are sitting on hoards of tech; kind of like the Indie ending in that regard, but with less total bloodshed. I can still see why House wants them destroyed.

    Caesar's Legion: Last and certainly not least, Caesar's decision to put the Brotherhood down is also warranted, at least from a military perspective. While the Legion won't have to worry about the BoS raiding them for tech (except for Caesar and his Auto-Doc), they will have to worry about the Legion's "no tech" policy, which would likely result in the BoS throwing a hissy fit and trying to take Old World gear en masse before the Legion disposes of it. This would lead to a fight. We have never been in a fight, we do not want that. Dr. Klein references aside though, the power armor and laser weapons make the Brotherhood a very real threat to the Legion in particular, and a preemptive strike is very much called for on Caesar's part.

    Also, is that name a reference to the band Lagwagon? Fucking love them
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  20. SquidVan

    SquidVan Literal Vampire Potbelly Goblin

    Jun 1, 2018
    Yeah, they're definitely a major nuisance or a small threat. They could harm, bully, or harass citizens under whoever's rule and be a pain in the dick.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1