The Last of Us 2 - Two cowgirls murdering each other's loved ones

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by CT Phipps, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Isn't revenge only bad for Ellie? Abby got her revenge and felt pretty swell (and swole).
     
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  2. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    Isn't that a double standard? You can't do a revenge bad plot, but then have a character in the same story get revenge and that being a good thing.
     
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  3. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    It's not a double standard if the standard used is "Piss off the players as much as possible".
     
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  4. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I assume this is a joke question. I mean, literally hundreds of thousands of stories have been written about, "Revenge=Good" vs. "Revenge=Bad" as some of the deepest most profound works of literature in the human canon.

    If you can't reduce your point to a single sentence, you also haven't written it very well. Stories fundamental to the human condition and profound are going to be ones that are about our relationship to primal emotions like love, anger, fear, hate, and forgiveness.
     
  5. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber

    Jun 1, 2018
    I mean you could have a story where one person's revenge is foolish while the others' is not and the point of the story could be to contrast the differences in those two desires for revenge. I wouldn't expect TLOU to pull that off in a well done manner though.
     
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  6. Eumesmopo

    Eumesmopo Learned to love the bomb

    153
    Dec 6, 2012
    I mean the message rather than the theme though. By your own words, revenge is bad was the message, was it not?
     
  7. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Little lady with the mouth of a sailor

    Jun 15, 2015
    Yes but that does not describe The Last of Us. As Torrant said, just because you have Western stuff in a story does not mean that it is a Western. The main theme of The Last of Us and The Walking Dead is survival. The survival genre usually uses Western themes to add more spice to it's story as survival on it's own gets stale after a while. But a Western it does not make.
    Also, Abby didn't get fucked over by getting revenge. She got everything that she wanted in the end. You can't do a "Revenge is bad!" story with only one character coming to that realization and suffering it's consequences. Oh and Abby's dog and friends don't count as she doesn't seem to give a shit about them in the end.

    That is actually a good idea for a story. The game could have been about how one character was in the right with their vengeance while the other character was wrong and suffered greatly the consequences for her quest for vengeance. I wouldn't expect Neil to pull off something like this. Like Rian Johnson, he thinks that subverting exceptions and pissing off the fans equals masterful storytelling. See this belief a lot with the kids studying writing and literature at the local liberal arts college. It is basically a belief that hipster d-bags that think they are smarter than everyone else have. We aren't smart enough to "appreciate" or "get" their amazing storytelling and deconstruction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  8. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    She also got crucified.
     
  9. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Little lady with the mouth of a sailor

    Jun 15, 2015
    She still got away with everything she done though. She never once suffered the consequences for her actions because she is Neil's Mary-Sue waifu.
     
  10. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    She got away except for losing all of her friends except one, her dog, and suffering crucifixtion.

    Gotcha.
     
  11. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/the-last-of-us-part-ii-zero-punctuation/

    Yahtzee reviewed the game recently. Just thought I'd bring it up.

    On the point of trauma, one can clearly see that Walker's trauma from his bad judgment call continually leads him to make decisions to correct his mistake but this, in turn, leads to further catastrophic mistakes that spirals out of control. From this, one can see that the false heroic narrative is even more prevalent as it is Walker's own obssessive desire to be a hero despite his failings and flaws that ruins him until he is forced to face it.

    Anti-war was not an intended message from the game though and I feel that your point on the game making you feel guilty for playing it is missing the mark on the game's intent. That supposed guilt-tripping does seem more like part of the game author's intent to make you question why you feel good about playing war shooters where killing your fellow human beings brings you entertainment and glee rather than outright condemn you.

    Heck, the fact that the player could choose to surrender and go home in one ending does show that the game does not condemn you and does not want you to dwell on it but rather to tell its story and let you go off with your thoughts enriched or aware of its story's subjects.

    If it was being full of Jack Thompson bullshit about it, it would be a lot more obvious, dishonest, pretentious and mean-spirited about it (like possibly a Chinese Room game, for instance). I feel that while SOTL is heavy-handed and unsubtle about its messages and themes, it still explores and expresses them well.

    Also, boy, this thread went whack since my last post...
     
  12. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Little lady with the mouth of a sailor

    Jun 15, 2015
    I said before that she doesn't care and she still doesn't. She got everything she wanted in the end. Those were all necessary sacrifices for her. Fuck off. You have ignored all my previous posts were I criticize this pile of shit and you blocked Norzan for criticizing it as well. You really can't handle anybody criticizing this game. You also cherry pick arguments to make the argument go in your favor and ignore criticism that you can't make an argument against.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  13. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Regarding the revenge thing, mind you that I don't know too much of the story, but Abby gets her revenge and ends up getting crucified and losing everything. Does that anything have to do with her golf handicap or is that the consequence of something else (she does seem to be a bit of a dick, and apparently just murders everyone named "Joel" she crosses paths with?)?
    Ellie, on the other hand, simply decides to not fully enact her revenge in the final seconds, and already lost everything. Can't even play guitar anymore because kids these days don't learn about Django Reinhardt anymore.
    Not very comparable.

    "Cute as a button" - CT Phipps, the current year.
     
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  14. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Little lady with the mouth of a sailor

    Jun 15, 2015
    Funny story:

    I am under the assumption that Twitter is an experiment in the concept of hive mentality.
     
  15. I think it is sadly just a view into how people really are on the inside.
     
  16. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Twitter was the first nail in the coffin for the current western civilisation.
    We were not ready for iPhones and Twitter, being constantly online and able to shout out our tiny thoughts at all times.
     
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  17. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Imagine if this was the idea all along...

    What better way to cause a collapse, than a collapse from within, and with no obvious culprit.
     
  18. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Little lady with the mouth of a sailor

    Jun 15, 2015
     
  19. Lidku

    Lidku Wasteland Sniper

    90
    Sep 4, 2019
    Neil Druckmann is a shit writer, the TLOU2 is craptastic, and I'm not surprised you like this game since you apparently think Fallout 3 is unironically "A GOOD GAME".. and think Fallout 4 "is a betrayal" to it.. LMAO, all Bethesda Fallouts are betrayal to the series- what are you on about?