the Master: was he evil?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by hag, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. Borov

    Borov Just yer average gopnik

    68
    Jul 6, 2016
    Why must we go so deep into the Masters intentions so that we could judge him as "evil" or not?

    I mean....It just ruins the charm of it,no?

    You said it, man.
     
  2. comscar

    comscar It Wandered In From the Wastes

    110
    Jul 8, 2009
    [Intelligence 2/7] I prefer Bethesda's villains so I can do less thinking about their moral intentions being good or not
     
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  3. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Eh Fallout 2's Enclave was just as unambigous as anything Bethesda pulled out of there asses.
     
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  4. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Yeah but, at least their motivation and reasoning was clear. I mean, the institute is undeniably the most unfocused, retarded, And pointless faction/villain in any fallout game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  5. Borov

    Borov Just yer average gopnik

    68
    Jul 6, 2016
    Well thats freaking obvious, both what you "asked" and if hes insane.

    Point im trying to make is that over-analyzing the thing you love can ruin it.
     
  6. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Because the idea of trying to create a better future through terrible means is unique to liberals.
     
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  7. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend First time out of the vault

    83
    Nov 26, 2015
    I wouldnt call him evil per say, he was trying to force his vision of a new species on the world. But evil is a matter of perception and ones moral standing.

    If two diametrically opposed forces meet one always views the other as wrong or bad or yes evil. Not that that is the correct way of looking at it. It just an easier way to dehumanize your opponent.

    I view the master as certainly a danger to the survival of our species but evil? I didnt find him overly immoral or depraved for that world. He wasnt in it for the thrills, he wasnt killing and mutalating just for the sake of it, he had a vision for a new wasteland.

    He was a monster, literally, so his moral compass may not be the same as mine. No, evil is the bastards who nuked the world IMO.
     
  8. Atlas

    Atlas Wasteland Wanderer

    36
    Jan 13, 2016
    Was the Master evil? That's a pretty easy question to answer, I think. The Master wasn't evil, he was insane. Back when he was Richard Grey, the Master--as I'm sure we're all aware by now--was dipped into the F.E.V vats and horribly mutated into the thing we see in Fallout 1.

    We already know that it changed how he looked and thought, but really think about how it must have felt for Richard to be turned into a mutant; imagine the pain of your body melting for a straight month, alone, knowing that everyone else you were traveling with was dead. I doubt he knew that Harold survived, but I doubt it would be much of a comfort regardless.

    Eventually, Richard's... well, blob, began to expand--to devour everything that was alive to give itself mass, and in doing so not only was Richard absorbing their bodies, but their minds also. If he wasn't driven insane from the F.E.V, than adding an untold amount of other people's minds to his own surly would have done the trick. Their own fear and anguish at their deaths were likely added to his own pain, again and again.

    Once he started calling himself "Master", it was game over. I'm pretty biased here, and this is just my silly opinion on the matter, but I think feeling that horror every time he absorbed someone was what sparked the "Unity" idea. Humanity was weak, alone, and afraid. It was dying out one by one, yet he was a being that could not only save them, but make them better.

    It worked, kind of, but we all know where the massive flaw in his plan was. He genuinely believes that what he's doing is for the sake of humanity, that by turning everyone into Super Mutants he's ensuring his species will survive. He even cured Cancer in the process!

    Plus, if you can make him realize that the Mutant's are fertile. he gives up. He sees that everything he's done has, ultimately, been for nothing; the human race wouldn't be able to populate if his plan worked, and as I said, everything he's done up to that point was for mankind.

    Personally, I find the Master to be one of the most tragic characters in Fallout. He did horrible things for the right reasons, and when presented with evidence that it was all for nothing, he loses the will to keep going. The weight of what he's done, the knowledge that all the lives that were lost because of him died for nothing, drove him to suicide.

    Master was not evil, he was simply driven insane by the horrors of the wasteland.
     
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  9. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    I'm shocked how many of you guys can consider Fallout to be apolitical game. For me it was clear anti-war propaganda from the first second of its excellent intro to the last bit of ending slide-show. Not mentioning its main goal - to explore how the survivors of Great War would create new settlements, form new societies or factions, and raise new forms of administrative and government in their destroyed country.

    (Since you think this doesn't belong here, I'll shut up for now, but there's a lot I'd like to expand on this topic since I strongly disagree with opinions of @Earth and @Dr Fallout.)
     
  10. cordelionreaver

    cordelionreaver Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    406
    Nov 29, 2015
    He is evil. He wants to commit genocide. Just because a villain isn't doing their plan for shits and giggles, that doesn't make them not evil.
     
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  11. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    He never said he wanted to commit genocide. "The remainder will live out the rest of their days under unity control and protection..." I personally wouldn't call that genocide...
     
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  12. cordelionreaver

    cordelionreaver Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    406
    Nov 29, 2015
    The Master wanted them to submit to sterilization. No more children, no more people.

    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Master#The_Unity
     
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  13. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    I know still... That's nit nearly as bad as straight up genocide.
     
  14. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    But it is apolitical. There's no information on the politics of the USA, they could be republican, democrat or a third party because we just don't know. The game has no clear political stance, and it doesn't seem to support any single party or ideology. The only stance it has is against nuclear war but that's it...
     
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  15. 5545Trey

    5545Trey Underground Deviant

    633
    Jun 25, 2014
    It still does not equate to genocide, though. Genocide is the systematic killing of an entire race, the Master just want the human species to evolved into something "better", but the way it was executed was wrong. That does not make him an evil, and he had good intentions.
     
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  16. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    That's totally not how Bethesda is. For one thing, they removed skill checks entirely...also skills! Gone! INTO THE VATS WITH THEM!

    In Fallout 4 that dialogue choice would simply be labeled "Maybe"

    Imagine trying to talk to the Master using "Yes No Maybe Sarcastic" - he'd dump you straight into the vats.
     
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  17. GlutinousRice

    GlutinousRice Ne travaillez jamais

    247
    Nov 7, 2015
    The Master wouldn't even consider you as a worthwhile human specimen, he will assume that you are just some horribly mutated wasteland retard, and simply kill you for bothering him.
     
  18. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Say, does anyone recall what was the Master's plans for the ghouls under the Unity? Was it mass extermination or something else?

    I'd argue that he's more of a well-intentioned extremist who has deluded themselves into believing their mad schemes. The fact that he can be convinced of the madness of his plans and his own acceptance of said plan's madness (with regret over his actions) does indicate that he's not completely evil, just insane. EDIT: Forgot to mention that his actions are evil though, his intentions are not.
    @Atlas brings up good points that argue against the Master being an outright evil, he's a individual (or mass of individuals) who thinks he can save the Wasteland but has deluded himself (with the help of his dishonest accomplices) into believing that his planned atrocities are the best way to do so.

    Knowing them, Bethesda's version of the Master would be a crazy pre-War mad scientist who survived because of SCIENCE that is so evil that he kicks puppies and steals candy from babies while using nonsensical SCIENCE to further his cause. Plus the speech option would be some lame one-liner that gets him to commit suicide immediately rather than a well-thought out argument with verifiable evidence.
     
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  19. cordelionreaver

    cordelionreaver Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    406
    Nov 29, 2015
    You can still have good intentions and still be evil. Remember no one thinks they're evil.
     
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  20. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    I'm not saying his actions aren't evil, they are evil (or rather the actions of his subordinates). I'm saying that the man himself may not be completely evil or rather, is more a shade of gray on a black and white spectrum of morality.
     
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