The US is in decline but has a navy

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by DammitBoy, May 15, 2012.

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  1. Yoshi525

    Yoshi525 Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Dec 10, 2006
    4too is like a vastly enhanced version of Prosper :notworthy:
     
  2. eom

    eom Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Feb 16, 2004
    we also have the biggest army of mexicans.
     
  3. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Careful now Yoshi. That is considered an insult in some communities.
     
  4. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Ratty, except old Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003
    4too a version of Prosper? Hah! When I joined in 2003, 4too was already a well-established legend of these forums for his incisive arguments and extravagant writing style. Prosper is just an annoying troll that showed up two years ago and won't go away.
     
  5. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    There are actually craploads of mexicans in our military - serving to gain citizen status.

    It's like Rome all over again!
     
  6. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Pretty well. Because nobody felt like backing Georgia. But y'know. That's Georgia.

    Haha. Good point.
     
  7. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    With europe in economic chaos and an broke america unwilling to engage a hostile agressive Russia, who exactly would stop them? Who is going to kick their butt?

    With their oil and gas resources, and a big fat bank account - this is a different russia.
     
  8. Yoshi525

    Yoshi525 Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Dec 10, 2006
    Meh. Their respective writing styles have a lot in common, and considering the apparent uniqueness of said style, I do mean a lot. Prosper may be insane, whilst 4too genius, however the boundary between the two states is a thin one. Hence :notworthy:

    Oil resources? You may want to look up how long those are predicted to last, at current production rates. Big fat bank account? A bit of a stretch there. Gas resources? Yes...and? Perhaps what you are groping for is naval might? They do afterall have the second largest navy?
     
  9. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Yes, Russia itself have changed. It isn't that mindless communist machinery anymore, most of the state property belongs to a private owners now. Still, who knows what they will do? Perhaps they will demand even Alaska, which have belonged to them long ago. Keep your guns and navies ready, boys!
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    yeah and neither Britain nor France have access to nuclear weapons and Germany is not even having any tanks! Seriously! Who's going to stop them! We are DOOMED I SAY! DOOOOMEEED!

    One of the last things the Soviets ... I mean Russians will do is to alinate their best consumers. Europe. They need us just as much as we need them. They earn a lot thx to the gas and other resources they sell to Europe. Just as how China has no interest in a collapsing US economy it is the same with Russia and Europe. What ever tensions there are because of Georgia or Chechenia. But behind the curtain its the economy and relation that counts. What will happen from here is another question. But I doubt it will lead to "military aggressions". Again. They need us as consumers. Just as how we need them as supplier. So it is rather unlikely that we will see their tanks marching trough Paris any time soon.
     
  11. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    This just in, this isin't the Cold War anymore. Russia has 0 interests in invading Europe. ''Reclaiming lost territory''? Even during the USSR Ukraine, Poland and co. were mostly considered deadweight in Russia, except for the ressouces they handed over. Nowadays, they still sell these ressources cheaply, no need for an invasion force to get em; cutting gas supply works well enough as a ''negociation'' tool. Same reason, say, the US won't invade Canada; of course, they could roll right over us, but beyond the obvious international and internal protests, what's the point when they already have everything they want from us?

    Not to mention France and Great Britain have nukes and powerful armies of their own (insert tired old joke about the French surrendering here, so that we can get it over with). Germany is an economic powerhouse you don,t want to alienate.

    Methinks you read too many Tom Clancy novels. So when's the war between China and Russia over oil (lol) coming then?
     
  12. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    In the scenario being discussed:

    Europe in economic chaos, America bankrupt and in the same boat.

    Russia and China make a pact and take what they want.

    Why do you suppose China is building such a huge navy?
     
  13. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Well, obviously because a navy means you can dick around economically and no one will ever bother you because of your navy. That's how it works, right? In your analogy, the navy is the penis, right?

    How is any of this related to economics, the topic of this thread and the thread this was split from?
     
  14. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Ratty, except old Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003
    I don't know, but for their sake I hope it's to use it as a red herring and trick the US into sinking trillions of dollars into obsolete aircraft carriers, while directing the bulk of its own spending into missile technology, the real key to military dominance in the 21st century.

    In a hypothetical war between China and the West, the biggest loser will be anyone relying on Cold War-era military doctrines - which is everyone. And once the Pacific becomes littered with husks of carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and other anachronistic rust-buckets, the powers involved will quickly use the only recourse they have available. And it will be the last war they will ever fight; perhaps the last one anyone will ever fight.
     
  15. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006

    Are you reading the jacket sleeve to your fallout CD?
     
  16. The Vault Dweller

    The Vault Dweller always looking for water.

    Aug 24, 2004
    Any war between major powers would just be a nuclear exchanged. In fact I would hope for it.

    What's the difference between dying of a bullet wound or radiation burns? At least the war would be short and the devastation so catastrophic the survivors might actually value peace afterward.

    Sincerely,
    The Vault Dweller
     
  17. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Ratty, except old Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003
    I'm reading the writing on the wall. It's been there for a while now, and it says clearly and unambiguously: the navy is dead. Any country that relies on the navy in a symmetric war is dead, only it doesn't know it yet.

    And therein lies the danger. How likely do you really think it is that a country, which has been on a (super)power-trip for the past hundred years, and which has just had the majority of its military assets turned into scrap in a matter of hours, will go down gracefully? How graceful was the Roman Empire in its fall? Or the Third Reich? And neither of those possessed nuclear weapons.

    Which is why this hypothetical war won't happen. It can't. There's a lot more at stake than global economy and commerce, and stakes are set against everyone who gets involved. I want to believe that deep-down, policy-makers everywhere, including US and China, are aware of this, and are merely building up their navies for the sake of posturing, rather than entertaining illusions that these navies can in any way be of use in a real, symmetric war.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    well the advantage of such a navy is not just in a war but there are many situations where it can be useful. Smaller conflicts like in Africa for example. A group of carriers has here the clear advantage of giving support.

    Not to mention a navy doing its patrol in areas full of pirates is needed as well. That is what many european ships do right now.

    Hands down there will not be any conventional warfare. Not as long most of the powers on this earth contain nuclear weapons.
     
  19. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Let's hope people are smart enough. The Cuban crisis back in 1962 almost started WW3 due to the nuclear arsenal.
     
  20. donperkan

    donperkan Vault Senior Citizen

    Aug 4, 2011
    In that scenario youre fucked. Navy, or not.

    Look at it from other side. That huge naval force runs on dollars, do you think it will reamain so powerfull when america steps down from it's throne.

    EDIT: Stupid question considering america would rather sacrifice all social spendings than cut war budget.
     
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