The world of Fallout: New Vegas makes sense

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Twicklerm, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I agree, because I would think like that too.

    True, but the problem is that they have no real experience with flying real plains. Their first time flying a military plane is their first time flying a plane in general! Rather risky.
     
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    True, but the same can be said of the Boomers, before they got the 'lady' all they had to rely on was simulated training as well.
    I guess from that we can conclude that VR training sims in the future are a lot more sophisticated and accurate training tools, really giving people sufficient training experience to handle the real thing when given the opportunity.
     
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  3. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Damn, I would love to fly in one of them. If they're that good...
     
  4. Jubal Quintus

    Jubal Quintus Nacho Friend

    123
    Mar 2, 2007
    Regarding the NCR and it's vertibirds, I think it's safe to assume that the NCR had it's own little Operation Paperclip after it captured Navarro (Operation Binderclip?). Many people, especially people who weren't True Believers in the Enclave cause (which is most likely a bulk of them, as in any ideological extremist cause - a real life example would be Wernher Von Braun ) would likely prefer to keep doing their work and going about their lives than to throw themselves on their swords or run off into the wastes. These people would lend a lot of knowledge to the NCR regarding maintenance and operation of advanced technologies like the vertibirds.

    Just food for thought.
     
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  5. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    Let's not forget that the legions has tons of reserves and expendables troops.. They don't have to fear the loss of morale in case of casualties. The player knows where Caesar is but I don't think the ncr knows all his movements. They don't have much intelligence about Caesar legion while Caesar have tons of spies. The legion don't have many high value targets that the ncr could destroy to cripple the legion, while the ncr have a ton of strategic locations that they must defend, like their own bases, the Hoover dam, the water network, the farms, their embassy, their check points, Helios one etc... An attack from the legion at any of those location might cripple the ncr, so they have to defend them and spread their forces thin. And they can't afford to forcefully recruit anyone they want. Even if they have enough people willing to join them, they would need to check their profile or risk even more spies. They also have to check on many other enemies as their position isn't secure in the Mojave. The legion, at the opposite, have emissaries to help grapefruit some of those enemies.
     
  6. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Wait, even if the NCR send their Vertibird to kill Caesar, bets are on that he'll know about it and move to somewhere else.
     
  7. Antiwarprofallout

    Antiwarprofallout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jun 13, 2016
    Problems I always had with the portrayal of the NCR:

    1. Why do they use non-functioning power armor? It must weigh a ton, and sensible soldiers would be stripping it off, and wearing only parts of it.
    2. Why do regular troopers not have a few light machine guns within their ranks? Considering the pre-war military would most defintely have this, the NCR that would develop from learning about the Pre-War military should be using LMGs alongside rifles.

    Problems with the world building in New Vegas:

    1. Where tf does the collapsed tunnel near the Repconn facility go?
    2. What did Searchlight eat?
    3. What did Nelson eat?
     
  8. DR_LaZer

    DR_LaZer Donacdum

    113
    Jul 7, 2016
    Because it's the next best thing too power armor. And it's not like everyone has salvaged power armor, only special forces do. They're a rare and special kind of soldier specially built for heavy defenses and weaponry that comes with the lack of the actual power in the armor.

    And... that's what they did though. they stripped it and are only wearing parts of it. Hell, Chief Hanlon said it best:
    "They have the best equipment the NCR can get its hands on, power armor salvaged from our war with the Brotherhood. Techs strip out the joint servos so you don't need special training to wear it. It feels like you're carrying a brahmin on your back, but it can take a heck of a lot of punishment.

    I mean.... are there light machine guns in the game? Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm not one for gun know how. I can't exactly identify a light machine gun from a heavy one. They all just shoot a lot of bullets to me. But back on point, if they're not even in the game then maybe that's why? Or maybe it's because the NCR's whole deal is fighting from afar and while I'm not gun savy, light machine gun doesn't seem like that long range of a weapon. Just sayian.

    I-I don't know. I would assume some techy place. I don't really have an answer for this.

    Searchlight? From my understanding before it was irradiated it was a newish military base. It probably got in shipments of food.

    And Nelson is kinda the same story. It was an OUTPOST so I don't know about you, but I think it would be logical to assume that they ALSO got shipments of food.
     
  9. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    746
    Mar 29, 2016
    Most NCR military resources are holding in order to prepare second battle of hoover dam, and since most of their regular infantry come from conscript, mean extremely expendable and not expensive military hardware worthy.
    Remember how much a 100% condition LMG worth in NV? compare it to a Service Rifle and you know the answer.
     
  10. Antiwarprofallout

    Antiwarprofallout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jun 13, 2016
    When I meant strip it, I meant really strip it, with soldiers taking off pieces of armor, for this reason.

    From what I understood they were towns with NCR outposts there. Might be wrong though.

    Yes, you'll see Super Mutants and Heavy NCR troopers using them.

    LMGs are used for suppressing targets, and considering the legion has to run at the NCR each time they want to start fighting (except for the occasional guy with a gun), it'd be pretty useful.

    Maybe if the NCR stops giving soldiers arthritis with the salvaged power armor they can give the troopers LMGs.
     
  11. Radiosity

    Radiosity Writiosity

    464
    Sep 9, 2015
    O_o

    So uh... they should strip armour off to gain a weight advantage, thereby negating the ARMOUR advantage? That about right? Yeah, makes total sense.

    On the final point: you realise the NCR is being supplied in large part by the Gunrunners? Hence why cost is a factor. Whereas the power armour is simply something they scavenged from defeated enemies and therefore cost them nothing. That's kind of the whole point of McLafferty asking you to steal the schematics from the Gunrunners, so they can build the weapons themselves without the costs of having to purchase them. They don't much care if the quality is lower as long as the cost matches (ie, raw materials and whatever cheap labour required to machine the parts and assemble finished product).
     
  12. Antiwarprofallout

    Antiwarprofallout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jun 13, 2016
    They would*

    The majority of the time, soldiers aren't fighting. You're just doing normal stuff, and that salvaged armor would just get in the way.

    Yes, and they're buying LMGs for heavy troopers when it would be more sensible to buy them for normal soldiers.
     
  13. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    The entire idea behind NCR salvaged power armor is, honestly, simply the result of gameplay mechanics.

    The stated reason behind why they remove the shoulder pieces is to remove the need for training to use power armor, while still keeping a good deal of defense from the PA itself.

    However, power armor never actually required training. PA training was invented in Fallout 3, as a gameplay mechanic, to prevent you from getting the best armor at level 1(a noted problem of Fallout 2) since the BoS/Outcasts/Enclave were everywhere. But Fallout 3 itself even stated that power armor was so simple to use, a child theoretically could use it.

    Salvaged PA in NV is just the result of whoever made that particular bit of the game seemingly not getting that, and still applying it as if it was lore, and expanding upon that.

    But even in Sawyer's mod, he removed the need for PA training to use PA at all, and just made PA training give you better bonuses while in PA. Which only makes NCr salvaged PA make even less sense. And then we see an NCR soldier in Lonesome Road wearing PA, showing they do in fact know how to train people in its use, making it make even less sense.

    TBH, I would just ignore it. Its a gameplay thing, nothing more.
     
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  14. Jubal Quintus

    Jubal Quintus Nacho Friend

    123
    Mar 2, 2007
    To address the LMG issue - if you issue a machine gun you have to also issue ammo for it. More machine guns = more ammo. Let's use the M-240B as an example of an average light/medium machine gun. The 240 fires 750-950 rounds per minute, depending on the mode of fire and the gas regulator setting. A machine gun can eat up 1000 round very easily, rounds that could have otherwise been employed with greater accuracy by riflemen. Now, the NCR is fairly well equipped, but not by modern standards. They appear to operate on a fairly tight ammo budget (rounds per soldier) and in light of that widely issued machine guns would be wasteful.

    A similar issue would arise with the power armor. Yes, you CAN train a guy (the one guy we see) to use it effectively, but that requires a huge allotment of resources. Power armor needs maintenance and repairs, on top of learning curve for the user, so each suit deployed would need a supply train to follow behind it where ever it might be deployed. On the other hand, stripping it of it's mechanical components and turning it into plate armor means that it becomes very low maintenance and easy to field. You no longer have to dedicate the few staff that you have who know how to operate it to training, you no longer have to deploy a team of techs to it's base of operations, and you no longer have to produce the replacement components that it will no doubt need. It's worth remembering that one of the first suits of power armor that a player can get in Fallout 1 is sitting there broken due to the rareness of the part. And this was in the bunker of the guys who have been repairing the same suits of armor for literal generations.
     
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  15. Antiwarprofallout

    Antiwarprofallout It Wandered In From the Wastes

    154
    Jun 13, 2016
    To anyone addressing cost concerns for the LMGs: The NCR uses them, just for the Heavy Troopers instead of dispersing them among normal troopers.
     
  16. Jubal Quintus

    Jubal Quintus Nacho Friend

    123
    Mar 2, 2007
    I'm not sure why you feel the need to repeat a point you've already made, but since you are, I'll repeat the answer. LMGs are likely rare and given only to a few soldiers NOT because they are expensive in caps but because they are expensive in ammo.

    Cheers.
     
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  17. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Not really. The whole point of power armor was that it was basically supposed to be a walking tank that could take tons of damage. It needing a whole train of people behind it would have been defeatist the the whole point of making PA in the first place. At most you would need a couple mechanics to cover a small armies worth of PA users.

    Not to mention the BoS field almost all of their actual soldiers with PA, and they don't need a whole train of people behind each PA to keep it working. All they really need is a few mechanics to do some basic repairs.
     
  18. Jubal Quintus

    Jubal Quintus Nacho Friend

    123
    Mar 2, 2007
    The BoS has entire workshops and bays dedicated to PA repair from Fallout 1 all the way to Fallout 4. But feel free to ignore that, if you like.
     
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  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Can't we go back to the BOS in Fallout 1? The proud, strong and big faction that actually influenced the wasteland?
     
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  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    That faction is gone, it has been explained in Fallout 2 why they went into decline. (not accepting new members because of xenophobia, the idea that they possessed the most advanced technology which they felt the outside world could not handle responsibly, the secret wish of waiting out until everyone else died off so that they would inherit the world.

    Even in Fallout 1 the organization was already suffering because of its politics and interpretation of the Codex. They had not recruited outsiders for decades and made a recruitment test that kills almost everyone who is willing to go through with it in order to deter people.
    In the best ending they became a house of development that slowly reintroduced the advanced technologies they hoarded. Perhaps they did for a while before they went back into self imposed isolation.

    These days the West Coast BOS and the NCR are even at war because the West Coast BOS feels that they should be the sole possessors of advanced technology, forcing people at gun point to turn over power generation tech, computers, and energy weapons.
    The Mojave Chapter only survives because they realize that they will just get more enemies if they go out and holding up people to search them for possession of inappropriate technology.

    McNamara the most progressive member of the Chapter is not willing to do much necessary changes because he knows the rest of the BOS would not accept these.

    Eventually the West Coast Brotherhood will die out, and it is their own fault.

    The only way the BOS would come back is if someone completely ignores Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas.
     
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