There is something silly in Fallout New Vegas

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Cobra Commander, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    1) Sierra Madre vending machine is the most lore break thing in the entire franchise. Sinclair could not only prevent the war, but solve all the problems in the world. Urgh. No. That said, I love Dead Money hehe.

    2) teleport is NOT a Fallout thing. Period. Same for F4, but in this case is only Bethesda, so who cares?

    3) Caesar never, EVER check out if the courier really destroyed House's robot army? Don't buy it. So lazy.

    4) In real life or even in a ficcional history, you can't have free pass to simple enter in a place dominate for a army and easy put a round in the head of their leader. You can do this with Cassandra Moore, Chief Halon and Dennis Crocker . Silly. A better job was done in the Casinos.

    5) Primm don't make sense. There's no way they can prosper with they illegal game based economy. The location is too dangerous. Notice that no caravan go there?

    6) Cazador is a awesome enemy. But a cazador is a flying insect. 5 years in mojave and the logic is that they already should be exterminate ALL life in the region. You can't counter this manace, period.

    7) a western gun (repeaters) delivery more damage then a modern laser gun? But why?

    8) talking about energy weapons, Fiends have a steady supplie of this gear because??????????

    9) Is that SHIT of Archimedes II the elijah's great asset? Is he by any chance stupid, retard or something like that?

    10) So, Novac' ghouls want to reach the stars but sudenly they come back to defend the town against Caesar legion??? Also, da hell they will eat in the space? Argh.

    Comments below.
  2. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Feb 4, 2016
    Well, we already have got similar thread. New vegas a bit rewritten and a bit redesigned. You should take a look, we have found several instances that could be solved in a different manner.
  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    1. True.
    2. It fits the theme.
    3. True, I wish they had been less lenient with that.
    4. Ye, they should've had weapon checks on their offices.
    5. Primm survived off the trading that comes with being smack in the safe route from NCR to New Vegas, they also have a Courier office.
    6. Not really, by that logic there would never be anything but Predators in nature. Cazadors just stick to their nests.
    7. Because Lasers are not good weapons, Plasma is better.
    8. Because they assaulted a Vault and some Van Graff's caravans, you can even find some guarding a cache of them.
    9. Elijah is stated to have gone insane and he was exiled for a reason.
    10. What do Astronauts eat in space? They probably stockpiled on food for their great journey.
  4. Tuffluck

    Tuffluck First time out of the vault

    Jul 13, 2017
    1. I thought the vending machines were pretty strange, even for Fallout. (It's basically sci-fi alchemy)
    2. Are you talking about the Transportalponder? I thought they explained it well with how the Think Tank are super geniuses.\
    3. I suspect that had to do with time constraints.
    4. Well, are you backstabbing them, or just straight up murdering them?
    5. It's explained that Primm WAS prosperous before the prison outbreak. Travelers would use that road instead of the 188.
    6. Giant cockroaches, chameleon frankensteins, giant armored scorpions, etc. That kind off makes your point moot.
    7. Cowboys. No more explanation needed.
    8. Vault 3, raided caravans, dead Paladins, etc. most likely.
    9. Elijah was never right in the head.
    10. They never went to space. I suspect they crashed far north of Nevada.
  5. YeeCop

    YeeCop Just a Sweet Irradiated Transvestite

    Jan 26, 2017
    How is it lore breaking?

    And why not?

    I agree.

    Illegal? Says who? The NCR?

    Cazadores are territorial. They don't fuck with you unless you're on their land.

    Vault 3 probably had an armory full of laser weapons. IDK.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    1. I never interpreted them as being limitless. I thought the Vending Machines were relatively simplistic. In fact, there's no way the Think Tank would have given a finished version of that to Sinclair. My guess is that the Sierra Madre vending machines are a simple model put in to beta testing, while the Think Tank work on a far more advanced one.

    Yeah it feels like a silly plot device tbh, but I can justify it being not entirely lorebreaking.

    2. Why isn't it?, We're talking about highly-experimental shit in a high-tech research facility.

    3. If he or a trusted advisor went down, they could very well die, if he sent one of his troops down, they could spread how much power Mr House had down there which may demoraise troops for the battle.

    But yeah, it is uncharacteristically trusting of Caesar.

    4. Yeah there should be a weapon hand over sequence. Though you are going to run in to trouble with NCR Patrols and Rangers and probably die if you do have a go.

    5. If you want to take the safest road to Vegas, you're going through Primm, meaning you'll have a chance to gamble before reaching proper New Vegas.

    6. Do we know how fast they actually breed?, Like unless they breed fast enough to make up for any losses, it'd probably be suicidal for them to try and wipe out all life in the Mojave at once. Simply killing enough people to eat would be far more beneficial.

    7. Yeah damage is stupid in this game. I try to ignore it.

    8. IIRC at one point in the game, Legion gives The Great Khans a shipment of Energy Weapons they presumably took from raids. The Great Khans have a trading relationship with The Fiends. That's how I interpreted where they got the weapons

    9. The Archimedes II is pretty damn powerful. I can see why you'd want it.

    10. Those rockets they took seem to have the power to make two way trips. I'm assuming they get there food while on Earth, stockpile it for however long there trip is, then return to start building again. Or they may have found a way to grow crops up wherever they are going.

    Alternatively, they may not have gone to space at all, but a nearby radioactive area. I think they are intentionally left vague
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  7. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    They require material, and while their repertoire is impressive it is only speculated to be limitless (by a known loon and liar). Only the one in the bunker is hard to explain, as game mechanics make it capable of endlessly processing normal material. Otherwise it's actually never shown to be practical or even feasible on a large scale, or even cost effective.

    "3) Caesar never, EVER check out if the courier really destroyed House's robot army? Don't buy it. So lazy."
    *allows worst enemy/nigh unstoppable murder machine into personal tent*
    *no one thinks to snipe him from across the river*

    "6) Cazador is a awesome enemy. But a cazador is a flying insect. 5 years in mojave and the logic is that they already should be exterminate ALL life in the region. You can't counter this manace, period."
    Nightstalkers are invisible cowards. If they evolved the guts to hunt (what do they even eat, why are they always in caves outside of big mt?) they could easily take down anything else. Just imagine having six venomous coyotes clamping down with viper fangs before you even know they're there...maybe they all have schizophrenia like the nightkin and don't like to be seen...

    "7) a western gun (repeaters) delivery more damage then a modern laser gun? But why?"
    Repeater really just means it can fire repeatedly before being reloaded. So lasers would also be repeaters. As for ballistics > Energy weapons
    What beats out the AER14 prototype? Or Pew Pew? The plasma caster is also highly underrated, and also literally the classic plasma rifle.

    "Is he by any chance stupid"
    Yes, and demented, short sighted, drug addled...he's a mess of a person.

    "10) So, Novac' ghouls want to reach the stars but sudenly they come back to defend the town against Caesar legion??? Also, da hell they will eat in the space? Argh."

    They flew out of Nevada (southwest iirc), landed in San Francisco, took the old Enclave shuttle left behind after the Hubologist's were slaughtered for being boring (which faced northeast), and ended up back at Repconn since it was the only freestanding location it had on file (as it was made in part with Repconn tech). Or so the legends say.
  8. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    Sorry, I was in the celphone and don´t use the google translator at the time. Illegal game would be a literal translation in my language for the word gamble, which did not come to mind at the time.

    And you guys are right. I check the map and Long 15 -> Mojave Outpost -> Primm -> Sloan (before Deathclaws, of course) is the quickest way to Vegas. For some reason I thought people would need to use Primm Pass, which is not true.

    Trick question. In fact, it would be a major acquisition for the Brotherhood ...... if it worked the way it works on the quest. Outside it, as a weapon, is pathetic. That's why I've altered it in Geck, as much as I hate using mods to break the game of being played as it was designed. They could have been more careful about that.

    Huummm, ok.....also a possibilty. Let's leave it like this.

    I have to desagree. You can´t introduce something like the tunnelers and the rules only work for them. I mean, you can even do that, but it's not as consistent. Yes, they are territorial, but they can expande. In fact, you can even see this ingame. Clean Bonnie Springs and they move to there.

    Now, this quote would be a good explanation

    I have not thought about it. They are insects so they should procreate quickly, but okay, suddenly something in the size of them prevents this.

    P.S: Nightstalkers are quick and silent, but only a few are invisible =p

    Bonus: Cazador (or cockroach) swarm vs Deatchclaw

    later I reply the rest.
  9. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    It doesn't have to be the size that prevents them.

    Don't forget Doctor Borous made Cazadores to be fully sterile.

    The only reason Cazadores can breed at all is because Borous is a moron.

    Maybe the sterility partly worked, in that they don't breed as quickly as other insects(I mean, you only ever see 4-8 Cazadores in one place, you never see entire swarms of them), but not enough to stop them from breeding overall.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  10. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I liked the introduction of the Cazadores, I felt that their addition fit very well with the Mojave.
    Considering the wasteland has been home to other horrible abominations the Cazadores should be right at home. The funny thing is the entirety of Fallout points out how much humanity is the most dangerous species on the planet.

    Cazadores? Not a problem for a Anti-material rifle with explosive rounds, dead from a distance, and never even a bother.
  11. peadar87

    peadar87 Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 4, 2015
    1. Yeah, I don't like the vending machines either. The whole "rearrange things into edible food, weapons and medicine at an atomic level" is just ridiculous, and game breaking. If that technology exists, a lot of the lore doesn't make sense. I usually headcanon it so that they're not matter assemblers, but dispensing points from a central store, so it annoys me less.

    2. I don't like teleporting either, but that's probably just a personal preference as to how much SCIENCE! I like to have in my game.

    3. Yeah, the Caesar thing could have been better handled. I think if Obsidian had had more time they might have rewritten the whole "meeting Caesar" portion of the game. I can get Caesar wanting to talk to the Courier and offering him safe passage to the Fort, even if they are anti-legion, but there has to be a better way of handling the Platinum Chip part of the main quest than having Caesar just give the Courier the chip and just letting them get on with it, especially if they have spent the entire game up to this point massacring legionaries. I don't know, maybe have it so the legionaries didn't find the platinum chip on Benny if the Courier is anti-legion, and he slips it to the Courier when they talk in Caesar's tent. The Courier can then try and infiltrate the vault (speech checks, legion disguise, whatever) if they want the Securitrons at the final battle.

    4. I agree. The means exists to do it, as shown in casinos, so why not do it for sensitive areas like command centres? Also allowing companions to carry their strongest weapons in casinos, or even allowing you to wear powered armour that turns you into a walking tank shouldn't be allowed. This is only a minor gripe though, it's never really affected my enjoyment of the game.

    6. Cazadores are just another predator. Let's be honest, cazadores aren't that much more dangerous than, say, lions. They're a bit faster, a bit more aggressive, and they're venomous, but when a lion can still kill you with a single bite, the poison is just overkill anyway. Cazadores haven't dominated the Mojave for much the same reason we aren't up to our eyeballs in lions (or bears, or cheetahs). There's also the fact that they're just animals at the end of the day. An animal, no matter how dangerous, can't compete with humans once we get ourselves organised. Even if there are ten thousand Cazadores in the Mojave, there are seemingly only 9 or 10 to a nest. Have a detachment of 50 NCR troopers, or even a militia with flamethrowers and they can just take out each nest with a huge numbers advantage.

    7. I think it's stated somewhere in one of the games (might even be FO3) that laser guns' main advantage isn't damage or anything, it's that they have no recoil, hit delay, or bullet drop, so they can be used efficiently with a lot less training than conventional firearms. That doesn't really translate into gameplay, as bullet drop and recoil aren't a thing there, but I do think I remember it being justified somewhere.

    8. I believe they looted them from Vault 3, although they also could have looted them from caravans, or even bought them from the van Graffs, who don't seem to be too picky about who they do business with.

    9. Veronica is outraged when she discovers that the Brotherhood lost so many men fighting for "glorified artillery". I get the feeling that Archimedes II has also been nerfed for gameplay reasons. When you use Archimedes I on the NCR troopers at the plant it has a far greater effect, but giving it that much power all the time would break game balance.

    10. They always talk about "the healing glow of the Far Beyond". I always thought that was the radiation in the van Allen belts, which are only a few thousand kilometres above the earth. If they can only fit a few days/weeks supplies in the spacecraft, then it makes sense to return to somewhere on earth to restock before going back up. Admittedly this is just throwing ideas out there, it's never made clear in-game.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    hehe, so do I.

    This is interesting. Does anyone know more?
  13. peadar87

    peadar87 Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 4, 2015
    I tried to find it in another discussion and couldn't, so I might just have dreamed it! But on the face of it, it does make sense. Sort of like how early firearms were actually less accurate and effective than a bow and arrow, but only needed a few days training to use, instead of years.
  14. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    Oct 25, 2011
    Matter of balance. Sometimes gameplay stuff needs to be over story one. And we can create hundreds of problems like this: people not dying from one headshot, PA not being that great like it should etc.

    Quoting the wiki:
    "It is never mentioned where or what the "sacred place" is, nor any reference that it may have already been mentioned within the Fallout series, yet No-bark Noonan claims it is Earth's moon."

    There is no reference at all in-game, that they want to go for stars, other than madman's worlds about moon. They landed somewhere in Earth, near Mojave Wasteland.
  15. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Frankly any arguments on weapon damage are a result of FPS being fucking hard to balance.

    Inputting the stats of FO1-2 into NV would cause hilarity, like AR's doing 10X DPS of plasma rifles and shit.
  16. SpookyBees

    SpookyBees hiding in a small hole in the middle of the desert

    Mar 12, 2017
    Eh, not every game is perfect. I agree with most of your quarrels with the game, but funnily enough, it's still one of the best fallout games in the franchise even with its problems.
  17. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2016
    It is my favorite game off all time, that's why I'm here. In fact, I'm not even that fan of the Fallout franchise, I prefer Mass Effect franchise, even with all it HUGE flaws.