Things that Fallout 3 did right!

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by AlphaPromethean, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Wumbology

    Wumbology Actually a sentient CRT

    299
    Mar 5, 2013
    Race is still a non-issue, though.

    A quick cross-reference of a map of population by race and a map of Nevada reveals that blacks are only 8% of the population anyhow, with whites and Hispanics being the bulk of the population.

    I mean, this is a universe where race issues are already present- as in, Super Mutants and Ghouls. Whole entire different species of man. There's enough racial representation within the universe by default.
     
  2. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    957
    Dec 24, 2012
    Ambassador Crocker was a major character?

    And yeah, with all the problems the characters of the Fallout universe have in day-to-day-life, I think they are passed the White man, Black man bullshit.
     
  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Why do people still think "Hispanic" is a race? are you aware there are white, black and brown latinos? Peru even has a sizable population of asiatic descent.
     
  4. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    197
    Mar 3, 2013
    Who cares what race anybody is? I mean Really? We have to play the race card even in a fantasy world?
     
  5. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    People also seem to forget that if in the Fallout world, culture remained untouched, then I'm sure there would be less ethnic people due to the overwhelming racism of the time, and like someone else said, nevada is majority white.

    Anyway, why does it matter?

    Who really cares? I've never realized this until you mention it, and its a tiny thing, plus, the gamebryo isn't very good at doing anything other than white people, and even then they still look dodgy.
     
  6. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    Really, I think "lily white" is a complaint it's pretty tough to make stick to New Vegas. The facial models in Gamebryo are so screwed up that it can be fairly-well impossible to differentiate "white" from "hispanic" from "asian" just by looking, and given the nature of the engine and the wasteland itself it can be a little tough to tell the difference between "black" and "sun-leathered."

    Honestly, I think it's a bit presumptuous to pick someone out as "white- non-diverse" just because they have lighter skin, anyway. As has been pointed out, Veronica's people probably come from parts south. It's probably a safe bet that "Craig Boone's" people hail from casserole country, and Arcade isn't much of a stretch, but as to the rest of the companions, it's really anyone's guess. I especially think that Raul Tejada might have something to say on the matter (I'm really not sure why he should count less just because he's been ghoulified, but then, I've always been something of a ghoul's rights advocate).

    Did you know that Easy Pete is supposed to be black and Chet at the Goodsprings Store is "hispanic" (though as has been pointed out, the complications of that blanket classification are many)? Joe Cobb was fairly non-lilly-white, I'd say. That's about half of the named population of the first town, not to mention the extras. Some towns do better than others, just like in the real world, but there are named (and important) non-white characters everywhere in the game. Ambassador Crocker? Judah Kreger? Sgt. McCredie? Private Morales (and her overachieving late husband Esteban the ranger, plus his partner Ranger Jackson)? Colonel Hsu? Major Dhatri? Ten of Spades? Corporal Farber? Knight Torres? The greater part of the Omertas? Chauncey, just about the only sane and likable member of the White Glove Society? Mother Pearl, Argyll, and Raquel of the Boomers? Manny Vargas? Granted, I've played the game more than most, but this is all right off the top of my head. Especially counting the relatively high proportion of gay and lesbian characters, New Vegas is probably an order of magnitude more diverse and tolerant than most places in real-life America. I'm not saying they handled it all perfectly, but to call the game whitewashed is going pretty far out on a limb, IMO.

    Anyway, we can make a thread for hashing that out if we want to, but there's my ten cents. On the original topic... I'll have to agree with the general sentiment. The joy of exploring the wasteland in F3 was something Bethesda delivered with their typical aplomb, even if I was often disappointed or even actively discouraged by what I found, especially if there were people there I was expected to actually talk to. Some things, though, like actually finding Rockopolis or making your way through the Dunwitch Building (as dumb as it was in the context of the setting) made for a very satisfying carrot at the end of the stick. Some of the architecture/visuals really made me nostalgic for the first game, too.
     
  7. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I'm not even going to touch the whole racism thing. Suffice it to say, that just reeks of paranoia and crying wolf, from my perspective. Needless to say, the post directly above mine really covered that far better than the topic deserved.

    But Combat Progression was done well in FO3? You must be high!

    Maybe I'm some sort of anomaly gamer, seeing as I was still voicing the virtues of niche gaming and appealing to a targeted audience and pursuit of "satisfying gratification for defeating a genuine challenge" in games, while games seemed to moved on to "the broader audience" and sacrificed quality and difficulty to provide "quick highs" to anyone and everyone indiscriminately. I once felt like my boast about beating and completing and fully-unlocking EVERY game I'd ever played up until the recent decade (including those quarter-sponge arcade classics, like Final Fight) was something WORTHY of boasting, but the last decade of games felt more like full-completion handed to me on a silver platter. Just dedicate 20 hours of my time, and that's all that's required. Granted, the proliferance and abundance of guides/walkthroughs certainly contributed to a greater ease of completing games, but I largely found them to be unnecessary, barring rounding up "collectibles", which were more monotony and tedium than they were challenge... I personally don't THINK I'm some kind of special gamer, but maybe I am? You tell me.

    That said, my experience with the scaling of combat in FO3 was anything BUT "natural", "seamless", "progressive", or any other adjective you could deem would fit the bull whilst delivering a compliment to the thing. Scaling was absurd, in FO3. The bulk of enemies you faced were ONE of 3 groups: Raiders, Mercs, and Regulators (BOTH of the latter 2 being mutually exclusive, as well). They never got tougher as the game progressed. They were always some grenades and some rocket launchers but usually just hunting rifles (seriously, EVERYONE has a hunting rifle!!!), assault rifles, and crowbars. The combat was the same whether you came upon them with your 10mm Pistol that Amata gave you at the beginning of the game, still level 2 and no higher, or whether you came upon them wielding a Fat Man at level 20 (sans Broken Steel). They were a challenge if you were weak and underleveled, and BEYOND pushovers if you'd been playing the game... at all!

    Super Mutants began to tip the scales a bit, as they were the first enemy you encountered that ACTUALLY scaled at all, but once again, this was marginal difference. Between the generic and their "Brute" and "Master" counterparts, the only differences was the tendency for Chinese Assasult Rifles to spawn more frequently, and of course the greater abundance of HP to slough through with your own weapon. By the time Enclave Soldiers became a threat (which could have lasted AGES, depending on your prioritization of the Main Quest over side-objectives and "exploring"), any player's character should have already been well-versed in the simple art of shooting the head and watching them fall down. For a group that was SUPPOSED to represent the most dangerous enemy that the Fallout series had ever encountered (up to this point, chronologically), wielding the allegedly "best tech" weapons and armor, they never really posed any threat at all! Headshot, boom. Even in FO2, it took considerable effort to take down a SINGLE Enclave trooper, with or without headshots, and if you weren't packing THE best heat in the game, you could expect to lose a fair number of your companions very easily, not to mention sizable chunks of your torso, loosely held together by your hasty reliance on Super Stims.

    Broken Steel provided NOTICEABLE "improvement" to the enemy level scaling, but naturally it was done to excess and didn't feel at all right or appropriate. Suddenly a Sneak Attack Critical to the face, at point blank, with the Double Barreled Shotgun (my favorite haul from Point Lookout) would serve to mildly irritate, whereas the IMMEDIATE LESSER TIER version of the enemy you were facing would explode violently upon impact. The "scaling" was non-existent! It went from "No Challenge" to "PUNCH THIS BRICK WALL AND ENJOY IT" in one single "transition"! This of course excluded the Tier 4 Enclave Solders (Hellfire), since they still went down equally as easily as their "lesser" counterparts. Yes, it might seem like I overused quotations in this particular paragraph, but I felt it rather poignant and appropriate to do so. Namely, because all of these things claimed to be something, but upon any decent inspection they proved to be nothing of the sort. They were "difficult" in name only.

    Long story short, FO3 had TERRIBLE combat progression, and FONV was no worse (though not MUCH better either) about it. It might just seem like it originally had some scaling worth mention, before Broken Steel came along and... well... broke all of that. But really, the absurdly "scaled" enemies of Broken Steel were Bethesda's knee-jerk response to the complaints of a complete LACK of any decent scaling in enemies, not praise that what they provided was any good, but fell off because of the PC's overpowered godliness. No, just a complete lack from the beginning.
     
  8. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The only good thing FO3 introduced was the exploration aspect IMO.
     
  9. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Bethesda games in a nutshell.
     
  10. BonusWaffle

    BonusWaffle Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Mar 6, 2013
    I dont like scaling in this type of game. If you arent strong enough to handle an enemy, well tough, go and get better armor weapons and skills and come back when you are.

    Its what reaally bothers me about difficulty sliders. Why should someone who focused on speech be able to take down an enemy as easily as someone who put a bunch of points into combat?
     
  11. Pathlessbullet

    Pathlessbullet First time out of the vault

    12
    Jun 30, 2011
    Fallout 3 moved the series away from that awful turn based isometric combat. Too bad they tried to develop the game around that legacy style of play with V.A.T.S.

    FO3 could've been a kick ass shooter with RPG elements otherwise.
     
  12. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    Any Fallout should be fps... that's the point.
     
  13. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Yeah Jagged alliance should be FPS too doesn't it?
    what a bull shit.
     
  14. CthuluIsSpy

    CthuluIsSpy A Smooth-Skin

    636
    Dec 20, 2011
    Enclave soldiers were hard to kill in FO3? Huh, that small army of Advanced Power Armored clad mooks I killed with hardly any effort were probably cosplayers then.
     
  15. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Alpharius oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    I liked the visuals. Not referring to graphics, but to buildings and "cities" design (even Megaton looked "cool", albeit not logical - though I doubt Bethesda wanted to achieve logic in the first place).

    Original Fallout games didn't have the whole '50s and retro-futuristic feel overly present to them, perhaps because of engine limitations back then - buildings didn't always look "right", if you ask me - not that I mind it, I still like it very much, but when it comes to designing architecture in video games, 3D can be a lot, lot better.

    So, anyway, the DC architecture reminded me a lot of Fallout intro video, which is great, the Vault hallways and technology were fabulous looking (although, again, limited by the bad engine), cities and little communities were often finely designed, with makeshift shelters made in suburban areas in the remains of houses, streets and super highways with all the retro-futuristic vehicles stopped in tracks, now long-gone rusted and destroyed...

    In general, I think Bethesda really nailed the line somewhere between total decay and destruction of post-apocalyptic world and the grandeur and glory of the Old World. You could feel the greatness lost, swept away by the force of nuclear blast and eerie, empty, howling winds which were blowing over the scorched land after the holocaust. It's not a common sight in a post-apocalyptic (visual) works, even in original Fallout games (one of the instances where this is really heavily present is in the aforementioned Fallout intro, when the TV in Necropolis is shown).


    However, aesthetics often confront logic and canon, as evident. Wasteland itself, although majestic on many occasions, doesn't fit in chronologically, since it is looking more as if the war occurred 20 years, not 200 years ago...which is only one of the dozens of problems present. I mean, picket fence is still standing, and is still white.
     
  16. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    My race beats your race! :evil:

    They should really have changed the time limie of F3. That would have saved it a bit.
     
  17. pyroD

    pyroD Still Mildly Glowing

    273
    Aug 26, 2012
    Maybe if it occurred at the same time as fallout 2. The enclave would've made more sense then. But then they would have to drop Eden, but I mean, who's complaining.
     
  18. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    The Enclave's presence would've made more sense, sure, but not much else. Keep in mind that California got hit hard in several places (most notably The Glow) and in just a few decades the background radiation was almost nil. 80 years later and radiation was an anomaly, except in waste disposal and/or reactor sites (like the Toxic Caves and the Gecko plant). But DC? Apparently radiation just stays put for 200 years, because it never left the water, and the White House is still some heavily irradiated hole, despite being a crater open to the elements.

    There's a very tiny time period where the events of FO3 could make sense, but it's never completely right. Moving the time it could have taken place just makes something else out of place. Too close to after the bombs and James living out in the Wasteland before he fled to Vault 101 seems implausible, but the state of decay of the surroundings will make sense. Taken place shortly after FO2 and the Enclave's presence makes more sense, but the rest of the setting still doesn't. That's ultimately the greatest flaw with the plot and setting, the more you try to fix it, the more it breaks.

    But hey, back to what the game did RIGHT.....
     
  19. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Well, their DLCs weren't the typical money grabbing shit. We can argue about their quality, but at least for 10 dollars they actually offered more than 2 hours of a story experience instead of just pretty armors or skins.
     
  20. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009