Unpopular Fallout Opinions

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by hag, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. hag

    hag First time out of the vault

    7
    Aug 21, 2016
    What the title says. Excluding opinions pertaining to FO3/FO4's quality and lack thereof: this is not unpopular (at least with regards to NMA).

    Inspired by this thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  2. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    New Vegas's main storyline is boring and isn't worth playing without dlc.
     
  3. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Nice thread idea.


    • Fallout Tactics is better than Fallout 3 and 4.
    • All Fallout games are buggy as fuck and nearly unplayable (without irritation) if you do not use mods.
    • Fallout lore is taken entirely too seriously, as a result good games like Tactics are shitcanned by the fanbase, while shitty games like Fallout 3 are given favor.
    • Fallout 3 is so popular because a generation of kids grew up playing follow-the-compass, collect all the achievements, and post funny glitches you found.
    • The Legion is only popular because their faction is unfinished due to Obsidian releasing a better game than Bethesda in half the time, while also releasing a more unfinished game as a result. This was due to them always planning on doing DLC to cover the gaps I think. So you can LARP about the Legion being the best solution to a shitty situation because you never see how they run a territory and rape women.
    • The Enclave are simply The Illuminati in Power Armor except without all the cool imagery - they are boring. Their faction has never been developed much besides the awful Fallout 2 lore.
    • CTB with occasional turn based is the best way to play Fallout Tactics. The flak over that mechanic is what drove us into this current DARK AGE. We should have always had the choice to do both if design permitted it.
    • Fallout 2, Tactics, and FOnline engine is where we should focus all current modding efforts.
    • Instead of every modder making their ultimate dream Fallout and not finishing it, they should join any one of the already existing projects and attempt to work with those teams. Like Mutants Rising or helping translate the numerous Russian mods for instance. This will give you the experience to carry on your dream project at a later date with more experience. You might even make a few friends/contacts.
    • Fallout: PoS would have been ok if they left Harold and Rhombus and the Vault Dweller out.
    • Fallout Shelter would have been ok if it had more depth and included Fallout: New Vegas.
    • Fallout 4 would have been ok if it was called Fallout 76 and they threw all that shit in with it.
    • Ulysses and Elijah are the real villains in Fallout New Vegas.



    Bethesda is on the downward spiral that all companies inevitably go down since there is nowhere to go once you reach the top. Public opinion will drastically shift with each game with dozens of reasons listed as the possible cause, leaving Bethesda unable to properly handle the criticism due to trying to please everyone.
     
  4. FDO

    FDO Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Jul 4, 2018
    My, I fully agree with all that. Can't agree with all FNV companions being dislikable, I kind of have a soft spot for Veronica, and I like Cassidy's quest in payback mode. But I am no fan of dragging Boone, Arcade, and Raoul around, so I guess I still half agree.
    The Master is too complex to be labeled, he is beyond simplistic labeling such as 'good' and 'evil'.

    Let me quote these two again, since they are undeniable facts:

    Someone that get it.
    Ok, my own:

    1, Fallout 1 is the only true Fallout. (which doesn't make F2, Vegas or even Tactics unappreciable as hommage games)
    2, F2 version of what the Vault Dweller became after F1, and his alledged founding of a group who turned into backwards tribals, is a insult and a major tone down to Fallout 1 ending.
    3, the above point, and therefore Arroyo's tribe, is not 'canon', along with the hubologists, the enclave, the GECK, various special encounters and npc's comments. Making the 'chosen one' him/herself and his/her journey not happening I know, hey that's my unpopular opinions list and it's not a new opinion for me. It goes back 20 years, when I first played Fallout 2.
    4, Old world blues and Lonesome road sucks. Honest heart, apparently describe as the weakest, is better than those two and Dead money put the three KO with one punch. Dead money is the only DLC they should have kept, and kept the other three's ressources to improve/finish the main game even in a later 'Vegas enhanced edition DLC'.
    5, Ulysses's writing is a huge disapointment, and his story not worth the trouble of 'exploring' the divide to find his holotapes. Listening to Ulysses state his uninformed opinions of my character mindset and the lack of interesting answers for the courrier to defend himself made me suddently wander if Lonesome road hasn't been written by Bioware, which isn't a compliment in my book.
    6, The divide is boring and over extented, just like the big empty. Better stories and characters might have make them worthwile, along with a other gameplay style/engine that isn't FPS.
     
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  5. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller's_memoirs

    ---

    And so, I left.

    The days and weeks that followed were hard on me. I had met few true friends outside the Vault, and they had died following me. Now, my family had kicked me out and said that I could never return. I screamed. I cried. Slowly I came to realize that the Overseer may have been correct. I had changed. Life outside the Vault was different, and now I, too, was different. But I have never forgiven him for doing what he did to me.

    I wandered the desert, but never moved far from the mountains that shielded the Vault from the rest of the world. Perhaps I wanted to return, and force my way in, or plead for them to take me back. Fortunately, it did not come to that. I found a few wretched souls, a small group of Vault dwellers, who upon hearing of what happened to me, had decided to leave the Vault and join my side. They knew little of the outside world, and would have died if it were not for my assistance.

    Together, our little group moved north, away from the Vault, and away from that old life. Slowly, I taught them what experience had taught me. And together we learned to thrive.

    The Tribe
    Over time, our ragtag group turned into a tribe. I fell in love with one of them, and we raised a family, like all of our tribes people.

    We founded the Village, beyond the great cliff. It is a secure home thanks to our hard work. We would send scouts back towards the Vault, to help others who thought like ourselves, but that slowly came to an end. We no longer head in that direction. I often wonder what became of Vault 13, and the other Vaults, but I never had the time to go exploring again.

    I taught the others the skills they would need to survive and grow strong. Hunting, farming and other skills to feed us. Engineering and science to build our homes. Fighting to protect what was ours.

    My love and I led the village and the Tribe. The Tribe grew, and grew strong with our help. But all things come to an end. Our sons and daughters are now the leaders. I'm sure that the Tribe will continue to grow strong under the leadership of our children.

    My love perished years ago, and not a day goes by that I do not think of Pat's face. I see it every time I look at our children. This journal is our legacy to them, to their children, and to the rest of the Tribe. That is my story, and I am sticking to it.

    -The Wanderer


    ---

    I forget where it is but they also came across Tribals barely alive that they saved. Always made sense to me. The Temple didn't though.
     
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  6. FDO

    FDO Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Jul 4, 2018
    Yeah, I read that in Fallout 2 manual for years. If it make sense, or not, isn't the point. The tone, power, possibilities, final vision of Fallout 1 ending get completely nullified if you buy this piece of bad writting quickly putted together for no good reason. If they wanted a tribal start so much, then the tribe could have been any tribe with drough problems, and holodisks speaking of a so called holy artifact coming from anywhere, from traders to old ruins, and the game would have been the same if it's what they wanted.
    Anyway, it's only my opinion, which I can't even explain the way I see it, so I won't try.

    But, I forgot earlier:
    There is too many pre war america in Vegas, too many old computer still working with history of 'yeah baby, america', too many old posters even in loading screen about corporate spies, and 'america, yeah baby'.
    Give a rest to fucking america, it has ceased to exist after the bombs and nobody in a Fallout game should give a damn about it, if they even know what it was, which most shoudn't anyway.
     
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  7. Eshanas

    Eshanas Vault Dweller

    725
    Jul 6, 2016
    I disagree, especially since the NCR is all about remaking America in some form, at least, they base the basics of their government on it. I wouldn't be surprised if Tandi and the higher ups have the designs for a 'New American Republic' in store if they expand far enough.
     
  8. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    Here's the one that will really get me crucified. That "Inconsistent tone" people accuse of Fallout 2, that hammy comedy that's right next harrowing truths about the wasteland? That's the ideal tone of Fallout. It's this sacrilegious tone meant to set people off their norms and keep people adapting. Its a tone of whiplash that fits the nihilism of the series. It gets to be as fun and cheerful as possible one moment then show off how terrifyingly brutal the wasteland is the next. It doesn't have to artificially create this immutable sense of atmosphere, because the wasteland isn't like that. It isn't trying to make you suffer, that's just a product of human nature and the inconsistency of the world. Those are things that the franchise is all about. A lot of the other Fallout games have this sense of "trying to hard to be edgy" for me. The wasteland is a place of glorious highs and abyssal failures, and anything is possible there, which makes it the ultimate setting for telling so many different stories. The fact that it pisses off so many people just validates my belief that this is the ultimate tone for the game because the best Fallout is the Fallout that isn't afraid to piss people off.
     
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  9. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    New Reno was fun but not a good fit in Fallout 2 IMO.
     
  10. FDO

    FDO Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Jul 4, 2018
    I will always love Chris Avelone for his work on Planescape Torment and Kotor 2. But I am honestly terrible at knowing who wrote what in anything that isn't a book with the author's name on the cover.
    I played Planescape Torment for years without even knowing Avellone's name, same with Fallout and Tim Cain, since remembering designers names from manuals and credits never stuck in my mind for some reason, and internet caught up with me very late.
    So for all I know, Vegas might be my most recent experience with Avellone since Kotor 2. And I think those are the only obsidian games I played. Avellone might not be at it's peak all the time, well nobody is, but I woudn't know and beside he remain a writter under contract, so he doesn't have real control on how his work is used, probably.

    There is nothing sacrilegious in Fallout 2's worst, it's humor isn't even funny most of the time, and no it's not 'wacky' in any good way of story telling, it's not upside down or mind losing. It is just annoying, like a fly or a mosquitoe you have trouble to catch. Fallout 2 remain a lot more popular than Fallout I think, because it's 'bigger', though only in size, and because it's tone actually fit better with a larger public.

    It's like if you were saying that Monkey Island is a mind losing experience while Sanitarium isn't because it's not cheerful and 'fun'. Or that water in wine is a good thing because it's supposetly set the drinker off the norm.

    Badaway, there were very good writing in F2 to balance things out so don't make me say what I didn't. Vault City, the Den, NCR wanting to be the next big thing even for people not liking it, very well continued in Vegas, even most of Reno and more I am not thinking about now.
     
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  11. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    YAS! Feed me your pretentious tears and anger. They only make me stronger!
     
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  12. FDO

    FDO Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Jul 4, 2018
    Just expressing my unpopular opinion, I am long past thinking there is anything to win in talking, don't worry I know I am not convincing, I am not even trying. But, ok then. Bonne appetit.

    A little dessert:
    The enclave shoudn't exist. No wait, I said that already.
    I know, that's it. Fallout 2 is used as a excuse for people to say:
    'Yeah well it's Fallout's spirit, everything is allowed in Fallout'. America, baby.

    (Yeah it's a pure troll post but what, even I can have some fun right? I just won't call it good writing)
     
  13. President_Peaches

    President_Peaches First time out of the vault

    84
    Mar 4, 2018
    Lonesome Road is complete shit. Its just a slog through a linear shooting gallery, with no decent characters or stories to balance it out. I can't stand Ulysses' edgy faux-intellectual ramblings and cutesy-coo ED-E made me want to puke. What made it worse for me was that I enjoyed the base game and all the other DLCs and I left Lonesome Road until last before I finished the game. I avoided spoilers and was really excited about this DLC, meeting the Courier's nemesis in an old world military base...

    But nothing makes sense and the world building is crap -there is no explanation as to why the Hopesville missiles never launched; the dead general has been ghoulifed for some reason; there's no background to the trog reskin things (they're hyped as the scariest things ever but they're not even that tough to fight); a negligible amount of radiation is released by detonating the nuclear warheads scattered around; the Divide was full of Legion troops before the detonation event but nowhere else have the Legion got so far west; the area was supposedly home to a thriving community before the event yet we see zero trace of post-War settlement; toxic searing winds and the radioactive fallout from the missiles created the marked men, yet, unlike the Sierra Madre, the environment in the Divide is not a hazard to the courier.

    The whole thing seems like just a vehicle for Chris Avellone's messy personal philosophy and gamebyro's crappy FPS mechanics. At least there wasn't a turret section.
     
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  14. Valdetiosi

    Valdetiosi Valde

    321
    Jul 14, 2017
    Fallout 4's shooting was not any better from Fallout 3/New Vegas.
     
  15. Ayelander

    Ayelander Big Man

    169
    Jun 30, 2018
    Don't talk shit about my ED-E.
     
  16. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    Yeah, i agree with most of this (i liked ED-E though). Lonesome Road is definitely the weakest part of New Vegas to me.

    Speaking of NV DLC and from what i gathered from the internet is that a lot of people don't like Dead Money. To me Dead Money is easily the best DLC in the game and in some points is better than the main game.
     
  17. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Lonesome Road while not the best gameplay wise, ended perfectly with the mad ramblings of Ulysses. It is faux-intellectual rambling most of the time, true. He is a primitive savage in a PoS world. He is a dumbass by modern respects. This all fits together for me.

    The only downside was all the stuff left on the cutting room floor.

    That and New Vegas isn't nearly as good as the old Fallout. I can't believe I once thought it was.
     
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  18. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I posted a long pull-my-hair rant about my frustration with Ulysses, primarily his deliberate pomposity, vagueness and erratic non-philosophy. His nonsensical holotapes and the little speeches, as well as his annoying (and pretentious) habit of never spelling out organization names, instead refering to them as "the bull and the bear" and such, like some rock band lyricist or something, It just annoyed me

    Apart from that, I actually did like the DLC itself, it had cool environments to shift through, although - as with all the DLCs - I was *desperately* hoping for one that featured an actual urban environment! With the Zion one, I had such high hopes, FINALLY we're going to another city! But nouuup

    /

    Hah, nice timing Toront :D
    And yes, I remember there were very differing opinions on how coherent Ulysses ramblings were, a debate I appreciated, cus it made my thread busy and made me appear socially adept :]
     
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  19. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Non Binary Pod Person Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    This was all due to his Tribal background mainly, but it did grate a bit.
     
  20. President_Peaches

    President_Peaches First time out of the vault

    84
    Mar 4, 2018
    The design of the collapsed structures was the one thing I found cool about the DLC (except when the tilted floors gave me motion sickness) Like the Sierra Madra villa, it was nice to have some tightly-packed verticality in the level design.

    While Uylesses is a character who is not far from his tribal roots, I don't think that his wordiness is intended to be part of that. I think that Avellone wanted to portray him as a "noble savage."