Unpopular Fallout Opinions

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by hag, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Yer fond of me Lobster!

    Oct 26, 2016
    Fallout 3's vault intro was a decent vertical slice of what you might expect to do and see in the wasteland. It was a soft, elementary introduction to choice and consequence, and tried to provide you with tools to flesh out what kind of character you were going to be. Granted, stupid shit like shooting your dad with a BB gun only resulted in a scolding, it was OK.








    And then you got to Megaton and it all fell apart.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  2. MPPlantOfficial

    MPPlantOfficial Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    310
    Aug 24, 2017
    Unpopular opinion:
    I love the Lynette character.
    Anyone else?
     
  3. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    973
    Dec 6, 2016
    The character? Sure, she's awesome.

    Her personality? I hate it..
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  4. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Agreed but they were more interesting than what we got to see, only hear about from Caesar. The slavers thing caused too many players to disregard them all together. Though, societies would use slavery in a post-apocalyptic world (even post-post-apocalyptic too) just look at how long ago it used to exist in our world and how it actually exists today.
    Yes. I feel like Caesar is a major part of this. He was raised by the Followers of the Apocalypse and had access to pre-war information the commoner does not get. He'd probably have a lot of time to think as a child/teen and when he started his legion, he had time to contemplate still since he was the leader. Yeah, he was handing out orders and directing troops but he also could sit back more and think. And that thinking was backed by his likely education.
    He also probably could spot other gifted and talented individuals (and was one himself) such as Ulysses and Graham, I'm not sure how intelligent Lanius is but he's apparently a strong person and a strong leader. I don't agree with CAesar but he's not an idiot either in my opinion.
     
  5. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Oct 28, 2017
    You can convince Lanius to stand down by arguing what happened to Rome will repeat itself; they won't be able to hold all of the East and he listened to that. It actually put me to mind of the Master and explaining why the path they're going on won't work in-depth. It's much more engaging and insightful than speaking to anyone in NCR. Caesar himself even admits up front there are flaws and that he hopes there's a synthesis of sorts between NCR and Legion.

    Chief Hanlon is the only one I remember with any sense of awareness of what's happening in the big picture, with higher goals/motives, and speaks about drawbacks of the NCR.


    With Oliver Lee all you can do is threaten him with Robots. You can't really convince him of over expansion or advice or anything about what direction the NCR is headed (at least from what I remember).
     
  6. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Yeah, that was a nice thing even though people mock it a lot by saying you shouldn't be able to convince him so simply. I appreciated it at least. There definitely could have been more interesting people in the NCR but as far as I see it, most people don't believe in/care about the cause as much as they believe in getting paid for their jobs in the military/government.
     
  7. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Oct 28, 2017
    I thought that was one of the best speech options of all. I don't think it makes Lanius any less of a hardened warrior nor took away from his "badass" character. He wouldn't have been spooked off by robots or intimated by your sheer power like Oliver Lee clearly was, instead you argue on his level and convince him that taking New Vegas isn't in their best interests and he agrees. I thought it was clever and nicely done.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  8. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    127
    Jun 16, 2018
    Another one:
    The fallout canon in letter is not very important, and I don't mind at all stuff like retconning jet and such. In my opinion, the spirit and themes of fallout is much more important, both in story and gameplay.

    For example, in the jet retcon situation, I didn't really mind at all that they retconned jet. What I didn't like was Pete's tweet saying realism was irrelevant. Heck, if they somehow worked the retcon of jet into a good questline with engaging gameplay, branching paths, a variety of conclusions, and hard decisions with realistic consequences, then I would appreciate the fact that they did it (Obv they didn't because they are Bethesda but thats besides the point).

    Fallout has done some really foolish stuff to write themselves into a corner, like saying New York was absolutely obliterated. I wouldn't care at all if it was retconned, because New York would be a great setting for a deep and interesting fallout game.

    I wouldn't even mind a full retcons of the events of previous games or an alternate timeline/universe of sorts if it means we get a complex, deep RPG that explores the core themes of fallout in new and interesting ways.
     
  9. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    127
    Jun 16, 2018
    Agreed. Honestly, I think the vault is a great piece of game design. It introduces the players to all the mechanics and systems, while offering a good degree of choice with immediate consequences, and opportunities to roleplay.

    I think what's masterful about the section is just how far the extent of your choices go. Your treatment of Butch and the Overseer for example, which seem ultimately insignificant in the short term, have large ramifications later in the story in the trouble in homefront quest. If you scare Butch, he gets killed and locks off an option for you in trouble in homefront, and locks him off as a companion. Depending on how you handle the overseer in Escape! also has big influence on the trouble in homefront quest.

    Its honestly a shame the rest of the game was so devoid of long term consequences. It was a brilliant tutorial in an otherwise unremarkable game.
     
  10. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    Being railroaded into a 30 minutes long intro is not what i call good design. And there's hardly any reactivity there, at best you have like a quest that hardly has anything to do what happens in the rest of the game. Even though it's the intro of the game.

    Not to mention it commits the cardinal sin of roleplay games with character creation by telling basically 80% of the backstory of your character, whether you like it or not. One of the things the first two games and New Vegas did was leave so much to the imagination of the player, to craft most of the backstory of your character. Can't do that with Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 as well.


    About Lanius, i think it's great you can convince him to give up. It shows he's not a mindless monster beyond any reason and it's great reward for maxing speech.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  11. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    127
    Jun 16, 2018
    There's a good balance of how reactive a tutorial can be. For what its worth, its a great deal more reactive than the intro cave in fo1 and temple of trials in fo2. Not as good as goodsprings though. That said, being railroaded isn't nearly as bad when you have options.
     
  12. SquidVan

    SquidVan Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    The point is the intro in 3 is tedious and long. There's a reason there's mods for alternative starts. Those kind of intros work once.

    And I hated 2's as well actually. For different reasons.
     
  13. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    The intros of Fallout 1 and 2 are quick and don't waste your time. Not to mention, for how much shit the Temple of Trials gets (and it deserves it since it was rushed just for the sake of having a tutorial) you have several ways to complete it. Yes, they don't have reactivity, so? They weren't meant to have it.

    If anything, they are just supposed to be a test to your character, hence there aren't any major story events that affect your character in a major way in them. Events that are out of your control, events you probably didn't want to be part of your character's backstory. Events that happen in the Fallout 3 intro, locking your character into specific events.

    Long intros that hardly have any reactivity and what reactivity it has, hardly affects anything outside of it, even though it's an intro, it's not what i call good design. If the choices in the intro actually had any affect in the long run and it affected the outside world in a different number of ways, i wouldn't think the intro was so bad.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  14. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Oct 28, 2017
    My problem with the Vault escape is that it's selective in morality. The Overseer openly called for your death and execution, and you have no choice but to kill guards when encountered or be beaten and killed.

    So you go through about half a dozen guards who were just following orders before reaching the Overseer, and if you kill him, the game berates you for not considering how much of an impact you've made by murdering this man and the effects of this to his daughter, even though you've already killed half a dozen people who had family in the vault and it's never spoken of again. Not to mention the innocents caught in the crossfire of it all.

    So essentially you can only have mercy and spare the man who threw the vault into chaos and called for torture and murder of residents. But no one else.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  15. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Yer fond of me Lobster!

    Oct 26, 2016
    You know it's an unpopular opinion when you trigger some juicy conversation.

    *pat on back*
     
  16. MPPlantOfficial

    MPPlantOfficial Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    310
    Aug 24, 2017
    Yes she is very well written and I like the extra detail of putting Mentats in her inventory
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  17. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    I tend to look on the F3 intro with some favor for Three reasons. 0) It was my introduction to the series, poor intro though it was, it lead me to FNV and then to the first two games and a love of the lore and heart of Fallout. 1) It was Bethesda's first real attempt with things and due to some reactivity and, from their perspective, the need to familiarize the audience with some of the basic setting/plot concepts (pip boys, growing up and bonding to your father, their shitty time skip) it at least showed a little effort. 2) They absolutely fucked it up with F4 and managed to remove the little good reactivity that had been in Fallout 3, and keep literally all the actual bad shit. Long opening, lack of reactivity, over-defining character++, and an even greater lack of reason to bind to your starting "family".

    Fallout 3 may be crap, but its apparent there was at least an attempt. It was like trying to make a cupcake using toothpicks to hold them and setting your pan on fire, but come 4 they just threw the batter in the oven and set *it* on fire. If they'd gone the other way, and took some lessons from literally *ANY* competent RPG, even if it wasn't New Vegas necessarily and still missed the themes and concept of Fallout, it'd at least have been playable without the slow mind-crushing suffering of hunting for good in a landscape sculpted entirely of a mad hobo-god's feces..
     
  18. Sebor13

    Sebor13 First time out of the vault

    4
    Apr 23, 2016
    ^This

    As deplorable as the Legion is, their characters are infinitely more interesting than the bulk of the NCR's.

    There were so many NCR officers in the game who completely slip out of your memory because they do like four things total.

    I remember Major Knight as a particular disappointment, he seems so interesting and he's a major! That's a high military position, the highest you see in the came at that point, but he just repairs weapons and shit.

    If they really had to have the game be so saturated with the NCR, they could've cut like 1/3 NCR military quest givers and just figure out ways to turn those single quest military people into full questline givers. I also remember a lot of people talking Colonel Hsu, but I hardly had any direct dialogue with the guy.

    I know NCR saturation is a popular opinion, but I'm not really familiar with anybody giving any suggestions on what to do about it, and I think having less characters in a Fallout game isn't really something many people clamor for.:whistle:
     
  19. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    I've always thought that doing something with the Searchlight airport - say giving it to the Legion to mirror the NCR's own McCarren, as a secret solidified staging point with its own prisoners could be a valuable balance and explain even more of how the Legion patrols are getting past the NCR (they start there instead of weird and obvious staging point right near some dangerous radioactive mutants, I mean "feral ghouls") - leaving the Legion camp for the big scary, distracting monster on the horizon. Have it offer counter missions (or just offer these instead of the NCR ones) - discourage beef and spice supplies by leaning on merchants with threats of legion violence, or set up Jacobstown to appear (or actually be) Legion aligned to distract the NCR on more fronts. Have Vulpes be there, not the camp, and be the sneaky mastermind behind sending patrols.

    Honestly more for House to do wouldn't be bad either. Having more to do with his tunnels (or even the massive aquifers under the casinos needing protected) below the city maybe, could all have been valuable. Maybe even a planned evacuation monorail beneath the city that went to somewhere remote like Searchlight and his needing you to secure it before the legion hijacks it for something.

    Really just more to do with the deep south of the Map, where there's a lot of room and some interesting bits but even less reason to explore down there. Even out east has the deathclaws for a one shot trip at high level. Although more there, maybe even attempts for legion taming of Deathclaws, could have been shocking and the chance to get mind sets from the Enclave remnants to use could have been more valuable, and differentiating, for the ending Dam fight. NCR gets drive-by & drop off Enclave power suits backing it, for irony and a perhaps a little dark symbolism, while the Legion gets a few more controlled feral creatures held by the most fragile of technological tethers and representing in a small way the synthesis (or corruption) of Caesar's ideals. Yes man, I'd say, gets some sort of additional technological upgrade that allows him to scramble enemy comms and raises the question if he'll start controlling information without you, or if the Enclave remnants - for all their old and tired talk - will manipulate him over after you leave. House is offered the Enclave officer aid and Comms but turns them down out of distrust for shadow government interventionism, instead accepting their remaining power armor for research and automation. Making it similar to the NCR but without the Enclave officers actually being put to use. The last two are pretty iffy actually but that's how I'd lower the NCR ubiquity - just give more for the Legion to do from a more relevant (read: closer) secure place that the NCR isn't comfortable touching. Heck give the player the chance to report it and the NCR just write it off as being too distant to be assaulted and held, too near a irradiated town to be healthy, and too flat to approach without completely letting the enemy know they're coming.
     
  20. James Snowscoran

    James Snowscoran Still Mildly Glowing

    218
    Jun 1, 2011
    You can actually finish Escape! without killing anyone. But that's not really the point. The important distinction between killing the guards and killing the overseer is that the guards are actively trying to kill you- it's self-defense, whereas killing the overseer is just executing an unarmed man in cold blood. Sure, he might be a massive asshole, but he's no threat to you at that point since you're about five steps from the exit tunnel.

    Now to add some unpopular opinions of my own:

    - I think the FPRPG format suits Fallout.

    - I think FO3 is a pretty decent game, though not good enough that I'm likely to ever bother with the DLC or replaying it.

    - I like the concept of vaults as social experiments.

    - I find the Shi more annoying than the Hubologists.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1