V.A.T.S. is NOT a combat system

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by HoKa, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. oihrebwe

    oihrebwe Still Mildly Glowing

    236
    Jul 15, 2008
    you're right, dodging doesn't help at all. enemies just automatically point their weapons directly at whatever they're aiming at rather than realistically lagging a moving target. another triumph of RADIANT AI
     
  2. SL¥DE

    SL¥DE Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    364
    Oct 21, 2007
    I think vats is ok, but I agree that the chances to hit are stupidly high.
     
  3. nuanil

    nuanil First time out of the vault

    11
    Jan 10, 2007
    I personally feel the game is decent enough, but that's not to say there aren't a few glaring faults.

    #1 They changed the way SPECIAL affects skills.
    My perception 10 character no longer out ranges a 1 perception character and that is the biggest fail in my opinion.
    Some of my biggest laughs were with 1 intelligence characters, whose language consisted of little more than snorts and grunts, doesn't seam to be the case here. Also failing speech checks on a line and having the duplicate line show up immediately afterwards without a skill check is fail as well. I could go on but when they altered the underlying rules to the game they undermined the previous balance and ability for it to feel old school. Which also affects skills even though they bundled so many up together to make them more useful.

    I am happy to see science and repair to be much more useful. Go back and read almost all the walk thru's for FO 1 and 2, you get enough science and repair simply by reading books. That was fail back then.

    #2 VATS I love it, but I wished there was an option for the entirety of combat to be turn based using VATS for both sides, everyone gets there turn.
    That would give us turn base fans something to love. And again, PE should allow me to reach out with a sniper rifle more than 10 car lengths and have a 90%+ hit chance with max skill and max perception.

    #3 Traits, I miss my traits, but after playing a while, testing out stat combinations, there is definitely a lack of uniqueness in different builds and that has more to do with changing the underlying rule set than mechanics.
     
  4. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    Please explain me, why is that?
     
  5. chaosapiant

    chaosapiant It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Oct 30, 2008
    I think VATS is awesome. And I do not see it as cheating. The game is built around the idea that you'll use it, so the difficulty is set accordingly. I've died quite a few times, either with or without VATS. Also, even though you take much less damage while IN VATS, the moment you come out of it you take normal damage again, and any bullets already in flight will still nail you. VATS is nothing more than a way to breathe during combat and take aimed shots. Sure, I have the advantage of using it whereas the enemies don't, but they have the advantage of numbers. It equals out IMO.
     
  6. Jahnri

    Jahnri First time out of the vault

    57
    Nov 3, 2008
    I felt the same way. VATS felt like the moments a player took the time to rely on there brains during combat and focus there shots. Whereas normal combat was you aiming in the general direction and relying on numbers of bullets. Works awesome for me!

    I tend to agree with earlier comments that the SPECIAL and Skills weren't what I would liked to have seen in the game. I would have liked a slower progression with more levels and Specials spread out through them instead of every level.

    All in all a great game!
     
  7. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    If you want to take a break from playing, just pause the whole game!

    You guys are talking about how VATS gives you an opportunity to be better in combat and to make it easier. That's how cheating works!

    Fallout 1 & 2 was chalenging. Your enemies were hard to kill, even when you had a power armour, a minigun, and on level 6, but in FO3 I killed a camp with 5 muties (I was on lvl 6 only with leather armour) on a Hard difficult level! And all thanks to VATS.

    It would be fine if Bethesda used this system in another game, not named "Fallout 3".
     
  8. Jahnri

    Jahnri First time out of the vault

    57
    Nov 3, 2008
    No, rather were saying VATs is a state of intense concentration which allows one to fight at there peak. It may allow for incredible shots but that doesn't make it a cheat. Its not something which can be used all the time. Its merely a state of being which actually exists in combat.

    I think its something the game benefits from as a new foundation for Fallout combat. The next game will add even more new and foreign ideas to the mix I suspect. Fallout 3 is the next in the series, jumping to a new style of rendering. It could perhaps have been like the first two. I dont think it should be. Thats opinion though. :)
     
  9. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008

    Honestly, by the time I had power armor and energy weapons in F1 and 2 the combat was fairly trivial unless I was dicking around and just pushing the limits to see how far I could go (taking on enclave patrols with a spear and what not).

    If you do not like VATS you do not have to use it, not like the game forces you to go into it. It is a very popular optional* system so I really dont see how anyone loses here.
     
  10. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    What if I don't like FPS combat?
     
  11. nuanil

    nuanil First time out of the vault

    11
    Jan 10, 2007

    Easy, treat it like tactics Turn based, queue up your shots, let em fly, treat the incoming fire as reactionary fire, you duck and cover, let them have their turn whilst you regenerate and go back at it.

    One of teh glaring problems with society today is the inability and unwillingness to enter a state of belief suspension and just accept things as given.
     
  12. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    Wow, how can I treat something like it's not something?

    It's like saying that a fat guy is not fat at all.
     
  13. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    Do not play the game :D

    Many of us are enjoying it and I am sorry you did not find what you were looking for, better luck in your next purchase perhaps?
     
  14. Jahnri

    Jahnri First time out of the vault

    57
    Nov 3, 2008
    Considering this is the direction the rest of the Fallouts will be taking I guess your Shit out of luck and jolly well fucked as George used to say. *Shrugs*

    Hopefully you can mod it to your satisfaction. Just a question, so I dont have to look, whats Mutant Rising? I heard you mention that somewhere else.
     
  15. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    The fix for everything! Pretend the game is completely different.
    Wait, why am I playing this game then?
     
  16. Public

    Public Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    May 18, 2006
    Yeah, just walk away. It's called "Fallout", and it's supposed to be Fallout. I was waiting for this game (like all of us) for a bout 10 years, and something else came out! Not Fallout, TES with guns inspired by Fallout!

    Fallout series are on the second list of my favourite games (first is Planescape:Torment), so how can I just ignore the fact that this is not a Fallout sequel (not even a Fallout game)?? Maybe you just don't know me, I am a person who likes to fight for something he loves.

    I'm not complaining about Fallout 3, I'm just trying to (like most of people like me) proof that this is not Fallout, which might help in the future change the stupid reality of gaming corporations, their stupidity to create anykind of a shitty game and people will call it a masterpiece of all time!

    Bethesda bought the franchise just to take some original stuff from the franchise, call it a sequel and make their own game. Fallout franchise, the whole idea and univers of the game is like a diamond. Bethesda bought it from someone who was already dead (Interplay), created a fake diamond made from glass and sold to people like You.

    How do you feel buying a fake diamond for the same price as the real diamond, and calling it a real diamond?

    I'm glad I don't have to see you masturbating while you're playing Fallout 3 by Bethesda!

    www.mutantsrising.com
     
  17. TheFlyingBuddha

    TheFlyingBuddha It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Oct 29, 2008
    Every damn thread, someone has to come along and hop up and down and shout "THIS AIN'T FALLOUT!" We know it isn't, we get it. Sorry, but some of us enjoy it in spite of the fact that it's not the game that we've all been waiting 10 years for. It isn't Black Isle's Fallout, it's Bethesda's Fallout 3. Some people are going to continue to like/dislike it in spite of how many people don't/do. You can't "prove" that it isn't in the spirit of fallout any more than someone can prove that it is; we've all constructed what that means for ourselves. For some of us, it's the gameplay mechanics, for others the setting, or visual aesthetic, and so on. Running around yelling about how this is such a shitty game doesn't make it any more true than running around yelling that it is the best game ever. Neither is true when extended beyond the realm of personal opinion. You have every right to dislike it and to say as much but you're wasting time trying to adamantly "prove" your opinion.

    VATS isn't turn based, and you're right, pretending it is isn't going to fix it. It is a mixture of bullet time and a called shot mechanic, meant to look cool more than be a masterful tactical system.

    Is it the best thing ever? The worst? Neither. Like so many games it's a mechanic that probably needs some refining to get right, just like how unarmed totally sucked in fallout but was given some improvements in FO2.
     
  18. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    No worries I admire you for your passion even if I am of the thinking it will not do much good. I mean really this game has been a huge success for Beth, in all honesty what you see with Fallout 3 is probably what future Fallout's within the foreseeable future will bring.

    I am a fan of the original games myself (still have the original boxes on top of my dresser and the bound manuals on display in my entertainment center glass case) :P

    I still am enjoying this game tho and do not really mind the direction they are going with it as I think it can be improved over time.
    Again not trying to flame you or anything for your choices and I can understand why so many do not get anything out of this game.

    Keep your fingers crossed that tools get released and an amazing mod community gets going that is more in line with your ideas for the game? :)
     
  19. SL¥DE

    SL¥DE Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    364
    Oct 21, 2007
    There's a new mod on Fallout 3 Nexus that increases the VATS damage done to you to the same amount you take in real-time if it'll make you feel better. :3
     
  20. Frisca

    Frisca First time out of the vault

    22
    Nov 1, 2008
    This is a good game and like it or not it's a Fallout game.
    The question and I side 100% with the ones that shout against the concept that this game is named Fallout 3, goes like this:
    If Fallout Tactics would be called Fallout 3, would you agree? Would you just say "Live with it, it's Fallout 3, so what you control a squad and it's more of a RTS/RTT game?".
    How can a devoted Fallout fan sit around and accept the fact that the successor to Fallout 1 and 2 is this? I play this game, I like it to some degree and I am waiting for mods to come out. Still, I refuse to accept this game to be Fallout 3. It has so little to do with FO1,2 that it just does not make sense. Change the name of the game, make part 2,3...X of the new series and we have no problem with it.
    The original 2 Fallout games were a real diamond, and the proof is right here, this community. You honestly believe that 10 years from now anyone would give a crap about Fallout 3? Really? At the same time, I am ready to bet you that 10 years from now we will see either a company or open source produced remake of FO1 and 2 with 3d isometric graphics and perhaps added quests items and a few features.
    In the end, this is perhaps the only true Fallout community out there and I see it well in our rights to be pissed off. More then that we are bringing so many arguments as to why this game should not be called Fallout 3, and the counter arguments always sound like "live with it..."