What do you think happened to North and South Carolina after the Great War?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Sn1p3r187, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Taskeen

    Taskeen It Wandered In From the Wastes

    191
    Jul 27, 2007
    I always thought about what happened to other places in the story of FO - its definitely something worth exploring. For me, its wondering about any place or country in it. Although seeing as this about in the U.S., specifically, I always wondered what areas like the North Midwest, or Northwest and into Canada would be like. Many of those areas have very deep and to this day, uninhabited wilderness. Areas around Jasper National Park in Canada, for example, are incredible sights to see as-is far removed from major cities.

    Also, I'd like to know how Minnesota would have fared, for selfish reasons of course (where I am from) - I think largely with less humans, wilderness would grow over many places, but they would be great areas to live off the land for any survivors as the Ojibwe did long ago in NE Minnesota and the Dakota Sioux in the Southwestern half. With survival and hunting skills, the Boundary Waters is where you would want to go to be far removed from trouble or any of the many lakes that dot the land.

    I definitely loved the stark setting of FO1/2, but it would be interesting for one to be one set further away from the coast lines and major cities which is something I always thought about while playing them. Something far more 'greener' and wild. Bethesda is normally obsessed, ever since they got the franchise, with their new games for the focus to be with larger urban city areas, something I don't find that interesting - mostly because I don't find large cities to be that appealing to look at or live in.

    Also I've never actually been to North or South Carolina, but looking at a map, if I was survivor living in those areas I would probably head far away from major cities where trouble might be brewing like Raiders or groups "like" BOS setting up their own law of the land and head straight to Uwharrie National Forest and Badin Lake. From there I would continue West, go around Charlotte and head to Cherokee National Forest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  2. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Raleigh, NC.

    Well, at least I can't envy you. =)

    As for the topic question: EVERYTHING dies.

    I don't mean 100%, cause obviously there were survivors. But whether the places were directly struck or not, people were wiped out because of the radiation and the fallout that was carried by the air currents. So whether there was much of worth for NC/SC to be targeted by nukes, the deadly clouds of fallout would've still drifted across the country and killed millions of people. Besides, the collapse of society itself would've slowly strangled the life out of most communities that were familiarly dependent on a first world economy. Small pockets of survivors would make do, like Randal Clark did in Zion, but by and large, regardless of how close to nuclear blasts any given towns were, lots of people would still die, and society would've still had to start all over. That's the general gist of what happened all across the world in Fallout.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  3. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well PossibleCabbage gave us a good idea and Gaddes mentioned several potential targets that could make the Chinese decide to target a few missiles there,
    And for the rest, possible some of the effects SnapSlav mentioned that will kill a lot of people.

    So targets would be;

    1. Fort Bragg
    2. Possibly Charleston Air Force base (and perhaps the few smaller ones)
    3. Charleston

    A missile or two maybe spared for Moncks corner to get the power industry there, and Anyor to take out the weapon manufacturing plant.
    The national guard stations might be to minor to be worth any missiles or bombers (doubt the bombers would go that far anyway)

    I just read on this site at least one more probably target;

    4.) Shaw Air Force Base, the Chinese definitely would not want to miss this one http://militarybases.com/shaw-afb-air-force-base-in-sumter-sc/

    http://militarybases.com/north-carolina/
    http://militarybases.com/south-carolina/

    Any rumored secret bases or bunkers in either NC or SC?
     
  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I often wonder in these kinds of questions, the sheer statistical comparison between number of enemy targets, and complete nuclear stockpile, if we are imagining an "all out"

    Both US and Russia got several thousand nuclear warheads, meaning they could easily deliver at-least-1 to every capital in the world (about 200), and easily every major city in the entire world as well, there would maybe be a few thousand each, then have enough to get creative, such as hitting certain "favorites" with more than one, or clearing out significant countrysides, conturbations, industrial areas, etc

    It is also interesting how civilian casualties are implicit in the use of a nuclear missile, since you can always hit military positions, outposts, patrols, with conventional weapons, the whole purpose of the nuclear bomb is to destroy a city, to strike civilians in the most all encompassive, indiscriminate manner possible

    In those "attack plans" by the soviets, which were released half recently, someone posted them here too, Roskilde in Denmark was to be nuked, for cultural reasons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_to_the_River_Rhine)

    With this, hitting for example every capital in each American state would be easy, 50 hits would be a breeze, a drop from the stockpile, even 150 or 250, which is the number of warheads China has. Cold war Soviet Union had 40 000 at its height
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I think it is safe to assume zegh8578 that China increased its arsenal of warheads considerably in the decades towards 2077.
    Heck, perhaps they seized the Soviet Union's arsenal.
     
  6. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    you forgot Greensboro. Greensboro is definitely a big target since the basically provide a majority of power to the East Coast.
     
  7. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    I think we'd have a way of making it. I don't super mutants would come this far south but raider gangs would be a problem since most of em would make their bases in the mountains and theyd come in as an effective fighting force like the Khans. No one here has any nerve to build in the ruins of old cities or try to rebuild them. Like what Chosen one said in Klamath. We'd likely build cities else where and have a more tribal mentality though chemistry and guns would hopefully be something passed down to keep making ammunition in small tribal communities. But I'd say someone would try to make one of the cities functioning again or at least build out of it and start to do what the NCR did. Call us the Republic of United Carolina.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  8. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I'm not saying that POST-war survivors couldn't try to eek out a living many decades after the fallout settles. I'm just saying that, regardless of how few nor how many high priority bombing targets there may or may not have been present in the Carolinas, the modern day inhabitants would've largely been killed off by the nuclear exchange. Be it directly from blasts or indirectly from radiation or fallout. It doesn't matter. The people would've been largely (but not entirely) killed off, as is always the case with your "standard" post apocalyptic scenario. THEN what survivors there are return to the surface, and try to rebuild, when it's safely habitable again.

    Depending on your type of apocalypse scenario, the time intervals required between mass-extinction and rebuilding and repopulation vary. Nuclear apocalypse situations pretty much require a couple decades of buffer because of the atmospheric radiation, but biological apocalypses aren't subject to the same "wait it out till it's better" requirements. Machine apocalypses are the opposite extreme, where recovery is pretty much non-existent. And then you have your zombie apocalypses, which are kinda like the machine apocalypses, except they're also kinda biological apocalypses too (depending on the individual interpretations of "zombies" given) so they are a little bit of both. So, wherever it is that people managed to survive the blasts, they wouldn't be able to attempt to resume a "normal" life until many years later.
     
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I see there are also a couple of nuclear power plants in North Carolina, those would definitely also be targets. (power is essential for both civilian and military use, cut that and you get unrest and chaos quickly)
     
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    The most damage would be done by the nuclear fallout, hence a low amount of actual structural damage in places, but high amounts of radiation.
     
  11. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    The intact Hoover Dam stands as proof positive that just because something is vital, or even a cherished cultural landmark, doesn't guarantee that it'll be targeted and nuked into oblivion. Even more appropriately so about power plants, since it IS a power plant. Sure, they could be additional targets, but I wouldn't say "definitely".
     
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    That is an interesting question for the real life situation, would Hoover Dam be targeted during a nuclear war?

    Edit; don't forget that House's missile defences also protected Hoover Dam. I read somewhere in the strategy guide lasers were also installed on the dam.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  13. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    868
    Apr 7, 2014
    They could put lasers above Fort Bragg
     
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    They could but I think the laser missile defence system was a rare creation of House himself that did not get adopted by the US government (even if they should)

    BTW, it is kind of weird, FNV says that House put lasers on the Lucky 38 but Raul mentions anti missiles (thus some sort of missile interceptors) when you ask him about the War.
    It would not be implausible that both could not exist but I wish it had been more clear.
     
  15. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    There isn't even any doubt. What House accomplished was the result of his genius, CONSTANT (obsessive) forecasting calculations, and his industrious paranoia. Take for instance the firepower at the military's disposal... excluding nukes and sheer numbers, obviously. Military robots are incredibly limited in their functions, easy to disable, and frequently malfunction. Grossly outdated brainbots make up the mainstay of some of the most secretly guarded military facilities. What does House have at his beck and call? Securitrons. PERSONALLY designed and manufactured robots that had all-terrain travel capabilities, program versatility that could allow them to be gregarious diplomats OR ruthless foot soldiers, TONS of firepower packed into their efficiently-stockpiled frames, and were so advanced that one of the world's brightest scientific minds in the field of robotics couldn't crack them. Comparing what House accomplished to what the military MIGHT have been capable of is like comparing a horse to the flies buzzing around its ass. You might think that because they share similar environments that there's room for comparison... but there really isn't. XD

    Let's not forget, the U.S. immediately prior to the Great War was in a state of martial law, with the military assuming more and more control over daily living, so assuming that the military was capable of setting up some kind of missile defense system would suggest that much of the country COULD have been protected from the bombs. Clearly, they weren't. The only defense the military had against the bombs were underground shelters, and an oil rig they knew the Chinese would avoid targeting. House's anti-missile laser arrays were a peculiarity unique to House.
     
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    That and the network of mainframes House used to forcefully shut down incoming missiles. The lasers were only needed for taking down those missiles he missed or was unable to shut down in time.
    Had the Platinum Disc arrived in time Las Vegas would have completely escaped the direct attack. (it would probably have suffered from secondary effects though, and how long would a gambling city last in a world where the rest of civilization has been wiped out and is now full of starving survivors)
     
  17. Delbert

    Delbert Vault-Tec Employee

    47
    Sep 16, 2015
    Note that the population would've grown by 2077, assuming that the Fallout universe shared similar trends in population growth.
     
  18. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Which would have just expanded the death toll.
     
  19. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    The thing about missile defense systems as concerns a post-nuclear war setting is that they have to be some combination of rare or ineffective or else there really shouldn't have been any sort of apocalyptic events. If you're designing a setting, and want to have one particular point of interest still exist in some sense so that PCs can explore it, you can just as easily fiat that it wasn't a target or it wasn't hit directly. I mean, a targeting system on one of those things could always fail and the volume of ordinance exchanged might not have been enough to guarantee that much redundancy. Textual evidence suggests that the bombs in the Fallout setting were not particularly efficient and were thus more dirty than hot, so if you want to have some particular place to be largely intact, just assume that the Chinese didn't want to destroy it so much as possess it so they figured that a lethal dose of radiation to kill everyone there (or drive them away) was sufficient.

    200 years later, a lot of that radioactivity should have dissipated so that exploring it would be an option for the daring.
     
  20. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Well, it's also POSSIBLE, given how prosperous Vault 21 was until House forcibly sealed it off, that Vegas could've prospered as well. But the same rule of "background radiation + drifting fallout = kills everybody" would also still apply, which is the main difference between Vegas and Vault 21; one's a shelter designed to shield its inhabitants from the devastation of the outside world, the other's just a glamorous town. Vegas basically DID fall to pieces purely out of disrepair, though, and the centuries of looting and dismantling, so not much else would've changed had the proper firmware updates been delivered on time. What would've definitely changed is House never would've gone "into slumber" due to a buggy OS, so he might have started setting up his empire earlier, and more of the surrounding outer Vegas would've been in better shape. Although the latter case would likely still have been subject to looting and pillaging and dismantling anyway. So more than likely it would just mean that the Vegas area would be "more pristine" for the wastelanders to pick clean than other places, but not much else.

    Eh, it's all just speculation anyway.